Any recomendations for insulated pex underground oxygen barrior. Dont Know if I'd be better to put in lines and have closed cell ins sprayed or to bul one of the various preassembled pipes.
altheating said:The closed cell foam filled pipe is the way to go. No wasted time, the good stuff is worth the extra money spent. Last fall my eight year old underground pex failed (homemade, foam insulated pex inside a 8" pvc pipe) We installed triple wrap pre insulated pipe above ground. The last snow storm yielded 24" of snow. The next day I was shocked the snow had melted off the pipe and around it 6" on either side. I called to see what a local spray foamer would charge me to spray it after I get the trench dug this spring. About $400 for 75'. I'll just put in PEX Flex Foam Filled pipe in. Much less work. I have seen several Central Boiler installations that were done in mid winter with their version of the spray foam filled insulated pipe, no snow melt on the pipe. Do it right the first time!
taxidermist said:altheating said:The closed cell foam filled pipe is the way to go. No wasted time, the good stuff is worth the extra money spent. Last fall my eight year old underground pex failed (homemade, foam insulated pex inside a 8" pvc pipe) We installed triple wrap pre insulated pipe above ground. The last snow storm yielded 24" of snow. The next day I was shocked the snow had melted off the pipe and around it 6" on either side. I called to see what a local spray foamer would charge me to spray it after I get the trench dug this spring. About $400 for 75'. I'll just put in PEX Flex Foam Filled pipe in. Much less work. I have seen several Central Boiler installations that were done in mid winter with their version of the spray foam filled insulated pipe, no snow melt on the pipe. Do it right the first time!
I used Logstor insulated underground pipe. Make sure you put in at least 1 1 to 1 1 lines. I went wiith the good stuff the first time but no one ever told me to go bigger. Now I cant move the BTU that I can make with my boiler plus I had to run a taco 13 pump when I cols have used a 009.
Rob
woodsmaster said:taxidermist said:altheating said:The closed cell foam filled pipe is the way to go. No wasted time, the good stuff is worth the extra money spent. Last fall my eight year old underground pex failed (homemade, foam insulated pex inside a 8" pvc pipe) We installed triple wrap pre insulated pipe above ground. The last snow storm yielded 24" of snow. The next day I was shocked the snow had melted off the pipe and around it 6" on either side. I called to see what a local spray foamer would charge me to spray it after I get the trench dug this spring. About $400 for 75'. I'll just put in PEX Flex Foam Filled pipe in. Much less work. I have seen several Central Boiler installations that were done in mid winter with their version of the spray foam filled insulated pipe, no snow melt on the pipe. Do it right the first time!
I used Logstor insulated underground pipe. Make sure you put in at least 1 1 to 1 1 lines. I went wiith the good stuff the first time but no one ever told me to go bigger. Now I cant move the BTU that I can make with my boiler plus I had to run a taco 13 pump when I cols have used a 009.
Rob
rob,
I was thinking 1 1/4 lines from shed to storage in shop about 20',and 1 " from storage to house about 140'. House design load is 40,000 btu plus dhw and small hot tub. Would 1" be suffecient for the house load?
planing on 200,000 btu boiler will 1 1/4 move the btus to storage.
Tennman said:Will be digging up my 1 1/4" hePEX and home brew insulation system. I'm sure I have significant water penetration into my corregated pipe which I put over my PEX with insulated sleeves. My hurry up method for the '09 season allowed to heat with wood this year, but now I have the time and expense of redoing. I was at a home improvement show last Friday and found a local polyurethane foam contractor who will foam my PEX in the trench for about $500. Wish I had found this contractor back in October/November 09. Bottom line with about 160'-170' underground I couldn't justify the $14/ft insulated products, rolled my own, and now will do the foam in a 6" wide trench with about 3" foam around the PEX. With this method I'm confident next season we will get an addition 10-20k/btus/hr into our home instead of warming the ground. Haven't found ANY method for the bigger PEX as either better insulation or better cost. I also invested $600 in Tiger foam and the product is good stuff. But this time around I'm just gonna hire the foam contractor I didn't know about last time around. BOTTOM LINE from a labor standpoint, I would much rather swap out my boiler than the underground lines. DO IT RIGHT and DO IT ONCE. It's not just the trenching but the lawn restoration time and dollars.
Best Wishes from a DIY installer with PEX lessons learned the hard way.
adenowski said:Heaterman,
I have 1" pex coming from outside boiler into the house. Then secondary loop for the 120,000btu HX in furnace plenum and another loop for 60,000btu HX for basement.
If both are supplying heat, they are not at max? They will only be supplying 80,000btu between the both of them? I don't understand, please explain.
Thanks,
Anthony
Tennman said:Heaterman, Your last post made me feel somewhat better about my 1 1/4" piping system. Per the Taco TD10 data sheet I knew I'd be exceeding the TD10 maximum 1 1/4" recommended flow rate of 11.2 gpm. With my computed head loss of a little more than 22 feet and assuming my 210kbtu boiler could consistently put out about 170kbtu I computed a required flow rate of 17 gpm (20F deltaT). Those two numbers flow rate and head put me right on the Taco 0013 curve. I had not read of anyone here using more than 1 1/4" PEX so I presumed others were routinely exceeding the recommended flow rate on 1 1/4" PEX. The existing 115kbtu propane furnace was adequate to keep our downstairs adequately warm during our short heating season, so I didn't attempt to do a heat loss. Since I'm about to dig up my PEX to foam insulate, from your experience am I way over pushing the flow rate in that 1 1/4"? Until recently I don't recall ever hearing discussions about 1 1/2" PEX.
The TD10 document implies the gpm limits are to keep flow noise at acceptable limits. But they also say keep flow velocity between 2-4 fps. At 17 gpm and 1 1/4" I'm at 6.25 fps! Now I'm wondering if I need to add a 1" line to my existing 1 1/4". Geez what a learning experience related to the underground part of this system.
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