Insulation Questions

[andrewporto]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to operating a wood insert. We just moved into a 3300 sq ft house built in 2005 and purchased a Hampton HI300. We love the look of the unit and it blows a lot of hot air. The issue we are having is the house does not heat up. I knew it would struggle to heat the entire house, but I hoped it would keep the living room where the stove resides warm. Even with the bedroooms doors shut, the room with the insert is 63 degrees when it is in the teens outside, 66 degrees when it is 25 degrees outside (right now). When the temperature outside rises into the mid 30's the room will get to 70. When it gets to into the 40's, the room finally hits 75. The house has a center hall and the upstairs hallway is usually the same temperature as the downstiars room with the stove, so a lot of the heat is making its way up the center hall.
My question is: Is it normal for the inside temperature to fluctuate so much based on the outside temperature? There are a lot of big windows and a slider in the room as well. I purchased blids for the windows. My brother-in-law suggested we stuff fire proof insulation behind the stove.
--
I am not expecting to heat the entire house, but I was expecting to keep the thermostat set at 60 for the rest of the house and keep the room with the stove in the 70's even when the outside temperature drops into the sigle digits. It this too much to expect? Is it worth insultating behind the stove? We are planning on purchasing blinds for the slider, are there any other suggestions for keeping the inside temperature consistent regardless of outside temp?
Thank you for any help.
Andrew

 

[1ruralmailman]

first you need to know if there is a block off plate above this thing in the chimney,or is the chimney an open space sucking heated air up it.if it doesnt then closing that up with roxul and a plate will help alot.next is to figure what the loss value of all that glass is.is it insulated,caulked properly?are the windows locked,you would be surprised the difference this little thing can make.

 

[bholler]

also how high is the ceiling?

 

[webby3650]

Do you have a Zero -Clearance fireplace or an all masonry fireplace? We see ZC's all too often that have no insulation at all behind them! This just adds to the cold air infiltration that is already an issue associated with these units.
Masonry fireplaces on an exterior wall can have their issues too.

 

[andrewporto]

Thank you for helping me work through this. The stove was installed by a reputable dealer so I assume it was done properly. I will verify this weekend. Ceilings are 9 feet. I am keeping the ceiling fan off because I do not want to push the hot air out of the living room. The house was built in 2005 and the quality of construction seems to be high. I do not feel drafts around the windows, but it I do detect a colder temperature in front of the slider. I am uploading a picture where you can see the slider, 2 small windows, and 2 36X62 windows. There is a similar window to the left of the fireplace and 3 more in the kitchen area. The slider and kitchen windows have no blinds. The fireplace is masonary / brick. I know heat is entering the room because the ceiling fan is slowly turning when the stove gets hot.

Picture of room and stove.

 

[webby3650]

Can we see a pic of the fireplace?

 

[BrotherBart]

Most important is the wood you are burning and how you are burning it. When you are turning on the blower etc.

ETA: We need to get you getting the most out of the stove first.

 

[andrewporto]

The enamel does not reflect the flash very well.

 

[webby3650]

Nice looking unit. But I'm 120% sure it's in a pre-fab ZC fireplace with no insulation behind it.

 

[Hogwildz]

Skip the blind for the slider and get yourself some insulated curtains.
Doesn't sound that bad to me. That is a big place and unless the room is closed off, the heat may be getting a convection loop and moving out of the room.
Def check if there is a block off plate at the damper and what lies behind the zero clearance box.

 

[andrewporto]

From my understanding, ZC refers to materials other than Brick or Stone. I can confirm that behind the fireplace on the outside of the house going up to the roof is brick on the 3 exposed sides and I assume brick on the inside (Against the house). It could be I don't fully understand what ZC means. I will get behind the stove and insulate this weekend. How much more heat can I expect? Would heat loss from the back be significant? I do have a blower and it is surely blowing hot air into the room as the ceiling fan begins to turn on its own.

 

[fossil]

Your ceiling fan will not push hot air out of the room. Ceiling fans do next to nothing to move air horizontally. What they do very effectively is move air vertically. What you need to do is set the ceiling fan on slow or medium or whatever works for you, turning so that it is bringing cool room air up through the fan and out the top to spread in all directions along the ceiling and travel down the walls, and repeat. Do you know what a torus is? In case you don't, it's a donut shape. The ceiling fan will produce a donut shaped pattern of air movement in the room. The result is no thermal stratification and much more even distribution of warm air without any uncomfortable drafts to be felt. The warm air actually leaving the stove room will be minimal...ceiling fans don't do that. Rick



Image courtesy of the wonderful folks at Del Mar Fans & Lighting

http://www.delmarfans.com/educate/basics/what-is-the-proper-ceiling-fan-direction/

 

[webby3650]

Zero clearance means you have fireplace made out of sheet metal instead of solid masonry. It has a stone veneer on both sides of a framed wall. It's the most common in today's construction. It's extremely common for the fireplace to be installed before any insulation is put in, therefore allowing a massive amount of air infiltration.

 

[andrewporto]

Thanks to All. I am already learning a lot form this site... Torus and ZC. Fan is now set to clockwise and on slow. I felt a breeze on Med so I assume that is too fast. My wife is in charge of curtains and the fashion decision hasn't been made. Blinds are all I am allowed for now.

 

[bholler]

Doesn't look like a zc to me. But if it is it is installed totally wrong. I still contend that inserts shouldn't go in zc units. but I know now that several stove companies claim their stoves can go in them. but they all say that any of the air passages in the original unit need to be exposed and working which if they are there in that pis they are not exposed and working which is dangerous. I think the first thing yu need to do is figure out if you have a masonry box or a zc unit. I think you have a regular fireplace not a zc but cant be sure.

 

[webby3650]

Doesn't look like a zc to me. But if it is it is installed totally wrong. I still contend that inserts shouldn't go in zc units. but I know now that several stove companies claim their stoves can go in them. but they all say that any of the air passages in the original unit need to be exposed and working which if they are there in that pis they are not exposed and working which is dangerous. I think the first thing yu need to do is figure out if you have a masonry box or a zc unit. I think you have a regular fireplace not a zc but cant be sure.

I don't know what you see that makes you think it's not a ZC? Most of the new ZC boxes do not have louvers or grill of any kind, so there is no reason to think this is improperly installed based on the picture.

 

[webby3650]

From my understanding, ZC refers to materials other than Brick or Stone. I can confirm that behind the fireplace on the outside of the house going up to the roof is brick on the 3 exposed sides and I assume brick on the inside (Against the house). It could be I don't fully understand what ZC means. I will get behind the stove and insulate this weekend. How much more heat can I expect? Would heat loss from the back be significant? I do have a blower and it is surely blowing hot air into the room as the ceiling fan begins to turn on its own.

Take a picture of the top of the chimney. Then we will know what type of fireplace you have.

 

[USMC80]

Turn that ceiling fan on if your looking to keep the living room warmer. The moment I turned mine off the heat moved throughout the rest of the house (which is what i wanted) When I had it on it kept the living room much warmer

nevermind i see that you did that now. slow is the way to go too

 

[tcassavaugh]

I have one in every upstairs room. I keep the ones in the open/common areas running all the time. if I keep them on low and pulling the air up (not blowing down) it helps distribute the temps throughout the living room, dining room and kitchen. it also helps me keep that air moving and bringing more air up from the basement. and keep them on low. if I need more heat to the back bedrooms, it turn them on there too but most of the time they are around 67 degrees which is just right for me to sleep in. get some drapes and keep the fan on and I think you'll see a big improvement.

 

[andrewporto]

The fan in the living room is now on. I didn't notice much difference either way. Here is a picture of the outside Chimney. 30 feet of brick.

 

[bholler]

I have never seen a 2005 zero clearance unit that didn't have air intakes for cooling the box there may be a few but I have never seen one and it was not common at that time. and due to the fact that I cant see any exposed air intakes if it was a zc unit (which by the picture of the outside I am 90% sure it isnt) that install would be incorrect by any instructions I have seen

 

[webby3650]

That is a masonry fireplace with a SS liner. Good deal!
First I would take the top plate off and make sure its stuffed with insulation to prevent heat from going straight out the top. If you are feeling real ambitious, pull the panels off of the insert and see if it has a block off plate.

 

[webby3650]

I have never seen a 2005 zero clearance unit that didn't have air intakes for cooling the box there may be a few but I have never seen one and it was not common at that time. and due to the fact that I cant see any exposed air intakes if it was a zc unit (which by the picture of the outside I am 90% sure it isnt) that install would be incorrect by any instructions I have seen

Well there are lots of higher end ZCs out there with no louvers. Builders boxes have them, not super boxes. Even if it was a ZC, that insert wouldn't fit into a builders box. It would have to be a super box, therefore no louvers.

 

[andrewporto]

It looks like there isn't much else behind there but the pipe. I'll be getting fireproof insulation back there and the block plate. Also, I wish I had looked into the actual space instead of relying on the dealer because I would have gone with a bigger fire box. Hopefully the insulation and block plate will be enough.

 

[Hogwildz]

That is a lot of heat going up instead of into the room. You should notice a big difference once you get the block off plate in there.
Shame so many installers skip on such an important thing.