Insurance requirement: Annual professional cleaning?

[paredown]

A new-to-me requirement. We were trying to get our homeowner's policy renewed (turned into a new policy; long story...)

In order to proceed in the "system" we need to have had our liner professionally cleaned withing the last twelve months, and assuming they deigned to insure our house, we would need to provide a receipt annually showing that the liner had been professionally cleaned.

This is through The Hartford/AARP and apparently is a new requirement. And I could not continue with the application for home insurance without said receipt in the hands of the underwriters even though we are in a time crunch to get insurance on our (mortgaged) house.

Ain't modern life grand!

 

[stoveliker]

Common in many countries (but the US)

 

[paredown]

Common in many countries (but the US)

Well, we are in the US, and if The Hartford is requiring it, I suspect that it will become general practice.

(And I hired "professionals" to clean the chimney of the last Habitat house our crew renovated--they knew about as much about chimneys and cleaning as I do--not to disparage the actual professionals like B Holler who hang out here and offer their advice...)

 

[stoveliker]

I agree. There are a lot of folks running brushes, but quite a few don't know flues.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How do they define a professional?

 

[stoveliker]

Lol. "Those who ask and receive money for what they do, and write a receipt"

 

[bholler]

How do they define a professional?

I beleive NY requires contractor licenses but an insurance company can require what ever they want. And no it will absolutely not become common practice here to require anual professional cleaning. And it shouldn't be that way many people absolutely do not require anual cleaning.


But honestly all licenses or even certifications show is that the person is willing to pay to.maimtain them. Really says nothing about the quality of work.

 

[bholler]

Well, we are in the US, and if The Hartford is requiring it, I suspect that it will become general practice.

(And I hired "professionals" to clean the chimney of the last Habitat house our crew renovated--they knew about as much about chimneys and cleaning as I do--not to disparage the actual professionals like B Holler who hang out here and offer their advice...)

Thankyou. And yes there are many hacks out there calling themselves professionals unfortunately

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Lol. "Those who ask and receive money for what they do, and write a receipt"

I suspect that is what they consider a professional. It’s worth having them define it.

If I wanted to sweep my own chimney, a $10 dba might make me a professional. I wouldn’t touch anybody else’s chimney under a dba though, lol.

 

[marty319]

My insurance company just told me that because my hot water tank is over 15 years that if I don't replace it I'm not covered for damage from leakage.

 

[30WCF]

Do you guys just call the insurance rep just to chat?

 

[paredown]

I suspect that is what they consider a professional. It’s worth having them define it.

If I wanted to sweep my own chimney, a $10 dba might make me a professional. I wouldn’t touch anybody else’s chimney under a dba though, lol.

No definition--just a dated receipt from a company that has performed the service. It would probably help I suppose if the receipt mentioned that they were a chimney cleaning company, but they just said "receipt", "professionally cleaned" and "within the past 12 months" and the same annually thereafter.

I'd love to know how many people are burning their houses down because of improper maintenance on an airtight stove.

Of course, honest me--they had "zero clearance fireplace" listed on the old policy and I was just trying to set them straight, Shoulda kept my mouth shut!

 

[bholler]

love to know how many people are burning their houses down because of improper maintenance on an airtight stove.

If installed properly very few. But if not installed properly the risk goes up dramatically. Really the biggest benefit in safety from having a pro work on it regularly comes from the inspection they should be doing every time. That can catch small problems before they become big problems. And those problems should be noted on the receipt so the insurance company would know about them. I have had people ask for a receipt without that info on it to.give to their insurance because they didn't want to fix it.

 

[stoveliker]

The install or wet wood, I'd say.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m a fan of independent insurance agents. They know the market and the underwriters and could possibly find one that doesn’t have this requirement.

 

[bholler]

I’m a fan of independent insurance agents. They know the market and the underwriters and could possibly find one that doesn’t have this requirement.

I am as well. My wife is one now as well. But people do have to remember they are simply sales people so you either need to really trust them or make sure you read and understand what the policy says and what is actually covered. We recently had a customer whose agent had them convinced that their insurance would cover a new stove because theirs was worn out. And just routine masonry repairs. They got pissed at me when I said I really doubt that will work.

 

[Eman85]

Well, we are in the US, and if The Hartford is requiring it, I suspect that it will become general practice.

(And I hired "professionals" to clean the chimney of the last Habitat house our crew renovated--they knew about as much about chimneys and cleaning as I do--not to disparage the actual professionals like B Holler who hang out here and offer their advice...)

The professionals had a license and insurance, this way your insurance company argue with their insurance company while you live in a tent if your house burns down. This is how insurance and lawyers work. This way everyone has insurance and then you need more insurance.

 

[bholler]

The professionals had a license and insurance, this way your insurance company argue with their insurance company while you live in a tent if your house burns down. This is how insurance and lawyers work. This way everyone has insurance and then you need more insurance.

No that isn't how it works. The homeowners insurance will pay and then go after anyone else that might hold responsibility to get their money back

 

[stoveliker]

I think Eman's example is more representative of 2-car collisions where relative liability is being hashed out by insurance companies.

Which brings me to the case that my mouth fell open to my knees when I learned that here (I don't know state differences, at least it was like this in TN) one has to buy "insurance to cover for damage done by the uninsured drivers also on the road"... World upside down...

 

[bholler]

I think Eman's example is more representative of 2-car collisions where relative liability is being hashed out by insurance companies.

Which brings me to the case that my mouth fell open to my knees when I learned that here (I don't know state differences, at least it was like this in TN) one has to buy "insurance to cover for damage done by the uninsured drivers also on the road"... World upside down...

Same in pa we need uninsured motorist coverage. Sad but needed

 

[Eman85]

TN almost 25% of motorists have no insurance. State didn't have a mandatory insurance law until not long ago but word hasn't gotten around. You can register and buy tags before you purchase insurance so many don't bother.

Uninsured Motorist Statistics And Facts 2023 | Bankrate

Are uninsured drivers a concern in your state? Bankrate reviews the data.

www.bankrate.com

 

[bholler]

TN almost 25% of motorists have no insurance. State didn't have a mandatory insurance law until not long ago but word hasn't gotten around. You can register and buy tags before you purchase insurance so many don't bother.

Uninsured Motorist Statistics And Facts 2023 | Bankrate

Are uninsured drivers a concern in your state? Bankrate reviews the data.

www.bankrate.com

In pa you need insurance before you can register a car. But there are a few companies that advertise no yearly contract pay by the month.

Uninsured motorist coverage also covers under insured motorists here because minimum liability coverages are $15k injury or death per person of $30k per accident. $5k in property damage. And pretty sure $50k in vehicle damage per accident. All way way to low

 

[xman23]

Lets hope this doesn't become a requirement. My clean down is as good if not better than any in the business professional.

 

[peakbagger]

Generally professional licensing requires state regulations to create a licensing board. The board then administers the program within the confines of the enabling legislation. It inherently reduces the number of folks in the profession and increases the cost for the services. The process can also be abused by the licensing boards to keep the number of licensed members low by putting in place long apprenticeship programs with no viable way of bypassing the apprenticeship step by a skilled person coming into the state from other areas. In strong union states, the unions had heavy influence, I know someone who was a master electrician in Maine that had to work as an apprentice in Mass for several years as the union in Mass who effectively ran the licensing program retroactively required that all hours submitted be on a union developed form. Unless this person had the time to locate a long list of former employers and get his documented hours redocumented on the union form, he lost about 3000 hours.

As a professional engineer that worked around the US in different states, it was obvious some state boards really abused the process to limit new engineers and firms from crossing state boundaries. There is a national licensing records program in place (NCEES) that is supposed to expedite interstate licensing and it does in many states, but many states have additional hurdles. Several states required that not only me be registered, but the company needed to registered in the state, and in order to be registered, a member of management also had to be registered as an engineer in the state. My job title was "promoted" at least once to VP of Special Projects in order to be able to register the firm in a specific state to do a small project. Unless it was a client that we knew or a major project we usually declined the work. There are licensing firms that specialize in just expediting this interstate licensing and they do not work for free. I know I have a PE license for one state that took over a year to get and that was with a NCEES registration.

Yes, licensing if administered properly can increase the level of professionalism but in many states its just a way of revenue for the state.

 

[stoveliker]

And then there are states that think they know better in medical licensing than the national board of certification of ...
My wife did that national board exam, after having had a determination that her education (in W. Europe) was (at least) equivalent to the education for the same job here in the US, to get her license. Then we moved to a different state, and the Dept. of Education who handles medical licenses refused to give her a license. Said she was not eligible.
That National Board of Certification contains subject matter experts that know the field. The Dept. of Educ. here does not. Yet they claim to know better.

Funnily, after I threatened to sue them, they backed down and my wife got her license.

Licensing serves a purpose when hazards exist (engineers, medical), but I agree that the systems have often devolved into structures where arguments other than keeping the quality up carry the day.