Insurance - Thermostatically Controlled Heat Requirement

[AJCKE]

My family just purchased our first home. It has a wood burner in the living room vented through the fireplace/chimney and a couple of vent-less gas heaters in a few rooms on the wall. The previous owner did not use the woodburner due to her age. Insurance companies are requiring that we have a thermostatically controlled source of heat or they will not cover us and I understand why. We plan to heat 100% with the wood-burner if we can. Some are giving us the option to have a furnace installed by fall. I'm looking to you guys for suggestions on the cheapest solution and/or the best solution to this issue. I'm getting ready to gut the downstairs so this might be a good time to run duct work and install a furnace, but I'd hate to see a new $4K-$6K furnace sit in the basement unused.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. One may intend on heating with wood, but it is important to have backup heat in case of sickness, getting called away for work or family matters, going on a vacation, etc.. If your electrical panel has the capacity, installing some baseboard electric heaters is often the least expensive way of adding heat. But if you have natural gas I would ditch the ventless heaters and install a simple furnace system.

How is the wood supply? Do you already have a couple years worth of wood stacked? Will it be fully seasoned by fall? If not, having backup heat becomes even more important. How new is the woodburner? Do you know the make and model? Has the chimney been cleaned and inspected by a certified sweep to make sure it is safe and ready for use?

 

[bholler]

if you dont really plan on using it electric baseboard it the cheapest option for sure.

 

[HotCoals]

My family just purchased our first home. It has a wood burner in the living room vented through the fireplace/chimney and a couple of vent-less gas heaters in a few rooms on the wall. The previous owner did not use the woodburner due to her age. Insurance companies are requiring that we have a thermostatically controlled source of heat or they will not cover us and I understand why. We plan to heat 100% with the wood-burner if we can. Some are giving us the option to have a furnace installed by fall. I'm looking to you guys for suggestions on the cheapest solution and/or the best solution to this issue. I'm getting ready to gut the downstairs so this might be a good time to run duct work and install a furnace, but I'd hate to see a new $4K-$6K furnace sit in the basement unused.

So you're going to update the stove?
Chances are you're going to need a S.S. liner also.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I think he's referring to the previous owners age not the woodstove. Maybe look at wiring some thermostats to the existing gas heaters?

 

[Grisu]

If it is propane gas heat I would take a close look at the propane prices in your area and compare it with the electricity rates. Here in VT there is very little difference between the two cost wise when used for heat and installing electric baseboards is then the much cheaper solution. On the other hand, if it is possible you may be selling the house in the coming years again you may recoup some of the expense of a central gas furnace.

 

[HotCoals]

I think he's referring to the previous owners age not the woodstove. Maybe look at wiring some thermostats to the existing gas heaters?

Oh..lol...my bad.
Still it all should be checked out.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Reading comprehension is not the strong suit of some around here.

 

[Mt Bob]

They do make t-stat controlled vent free,have a small one in basement for back up.I reccomend look at Empire dv heaters,direct vent,pilot ignition,not the most efficient but work as convection heater when power is out.

 

[Rickb]

if you dont really plan on using it electric baseboard it the cheapest option for sure.

These are great to have even if you don't plan on using it... What happens if you have to go out of town in winter for an unexpected reason. You can at least keep the house above freezing while your out so your water lines/fixtures don't explode.

 

[AJCKE]

Here are the answers to everyone's questions. The vent-less gas heaters are using natural gas. The house is considered "in town" so it has access to natural gas. It sits on a 6.5 acre lot. 4 of those acres are woods with a lot of hard wood trees - oak and hickory. I currently have at least 1 year worth of split wood ready. It looks like it has been split for at least five years. I spent the last month cutting down 14 trees - maple, walnut, and mulberry trees that were touching the house. These were decent size trees and should be good for the following year (I think). Not sure how long it takes for wood to season.

I have not had the chimney and wood stove inspected yet. A heating/cooling guy will be over tomorrow to try to sell us his product. Not sure what that is yet. The wood stove is a 30 year old Dutchwest India Federal Airtight. These things should last forever right? ...Or would you recommend replacing it? It sticks out really far from the wall I'm sure because of the woodwork around the chimney hazard. It would be nice to find a wood stove that fits in the fireplace or maybe put the wood stove in the basement.

Here are a few images. How could I get to the top of the chimney to clean it annually? Could I lean a ladder against a chimney that sticks up that high or would I have to get scaffolding? The pipe that is running up beside the chimney is a vent to a water boiler furnace that is in the basement. This furnace has not worked in over seven years. There is water baseboard heat in every room of the house that does not work. I'm assuming the furnace guy will recommend for us to pull the furnace and baseboard units out.

 

[bholler]

Well you should not have to pull the baseboards as well as the furnace unless water froze in the baseboards. But if you have nat gas i would put in a nat gas furnace for sure. That stove is ok but not great more than lickley it will need a cat and you should have the whole setup inspected. It is hard to tell what is going on there but i can tell you for sure that you have a clearance issue from the pipe to that mantle.

 

[Jags]

Hmmm...there are a handful of things a new stove would do for you.
reduce wood consumption (even thought the old stove is a cat stove).
reduce some of the crazy clearance issues you are dealing with
(and this is a personal opinion) give a cleaner fit and finish to the install.

Get a set of pro eyes on this setup to see what you are dealing with. Installing a liner may end up being your best option.

 

[HotCoals]

Well after seeing what for stove you have it may be alright to use. May need a new cat but hey.
Flue setup has at least one issue or three.

 

[Highbeam]

I would rather spend a few bucks to restore the water heat system. Sure, maybe a new NG boiler but that is an investment that will add value to the home. Baseboard heat or wall heaters are pretty ugly and scream ghetto.

I have thermostatic electric wall heaters in my home and have installed several. They are super cheap and easy to install. We have never used them to heat this house since we moved in 7 or 8 years ago. I've tested them and when you don't use them for a long time they get really stinky when you turn them on because they are burning off all that dust.

If that stove is deemed safe then run it for a year while you recover from the furnace cost. Oh and when cutting wood for the future, don't cut to whatever long length that old stove will allow. Stick to 16" lengths.

 

[HotCoals]

I would rather spend a few bucks to restore the water heat system. Sure, maybe a new NG boiler but that is an investment that will add value to the home. Baseboard heat or wall heaters are pretty ugly and scream ghetto.

I have thermostatic electric wall heaters in my home and have installed several. They are super cheap and easy to install. We have never used them to heat this house since we moved in 7 or 8 years ago. I've tested them and when you don't use them for a long time they get really stinky when you turn them on because they are burning off all that dust.

If that stove is deemed safe then run it for a year while you recover from the furnace cost. Oh and when cutting wood for the future, don't cut to whatever long length that old stove will allow. Stick to 16" lengths.

I concur on fixing or replacing the boiler no doubt.
I love hot water baseboard heat ..wish I had it!
I don't find the baseboards that go with it ugly though.
You lost me there unless you're talking about the old radiator style.

 

[begreen]

As Jags brought up, there are clearance issues and the hearth is definitely inadequate. Unfortunately the chimney height may be inadequate for some modern stoves. That will narrow the choices.

Oak and hickory take at least 2 years to season properly after being split and stacked. You may be able to burn the maple and walnut in 2015-2016 if it is split and stacked now.

A furnace is for hot air, a boiler for hot water. Replacing the boiler, flushing the system and getting it back working again may be the best investment.

 

[Highbeam]

I concur on fixing or replacing the boiler no doubt.
I love hot water baseboard heat ..wish I had it!
I don't find the baseboards that go with it ugly though.
You lost me there unless you're talking about the old radiator style.

Woops, I meant the electric baseboard or electric wall heaters are undesirable WRT aesthetics. The electric wall heaters are also noisy when running.

Hot water radiators look great to me and the baseboard water heat is far more attractive when you know it is hooked to cheaply heated water.

 

[HotCoals]

Woops, I meant the electric baseboard or electric wall heaters are undesirable WRT aesthetics. The electric wall heaters are also noisy when running.

Hot water radiators look great to me and the baseboard water heat is far more attractive when you know it is hooked to cheaply heated water.

Thanks for clearing that up and agree!
Cheers!

 

[AJCKE]

I just recieved my first quote for a natural gas furnace - $10,500. AC - $2900. I'll keep looking.

 

[begreen]

Is that for a new warm air system (furnace) or fixing/replacing the hot water boiler?

 

[HotCoals]

I'm thinking forced air since it seems he also got the price for add on A/C. dunno.

 

[AJCKE]

That price is for a natural gas furnace and duct work. The salesman said it would take them two weeks to complete the job so most of that $ is in labor. To replace the boiler we're looking at $6K plus fixing any of the old baseboard units. I still wouldn't have AC. What are electric baseboard users doing for AC if they don't have duct work? We're getting ready to gut the downstairs. I thought that would be a good time to run duct work through the walls.

 

[HotCoals]

That price is for a natural gas furnace and duct work. The salesman said it would take them two weeks to complete the job so most of that $ is in labor. To replace the boiler we're looking at $6K plus fixing any of the old baseboard units. I still wouldn't have AC. What are electric baseboard users doing for AC if they don't have duct work? We're getting ready to gut the downstairs. I thought that would be a good time to run duct work through the walls.

I understand your desire for A/C and that's one good thing about my electric heat pump,it's also a/c. Of course I have ducting.
I also have a electric furnace for when it's too cold for the heat pump to keep up..way costly to run hence the wood stove.
The whole thing was put in when the house was built in 86 and it still works with no service at all.
But back to your situation. The only thing you could do without ducts is to have window air cons in the rooms you would want/need it if you don't do the duct work.
I could be wrong but I know of no other way.

 

[begreen]

That price is for a natural gas furnace and duct work. The salesman said it would take them two weeks to complete the job so most of that $ is in labor. To replace the boiler we're looking at $6K plus fixing any of the old baseboard units. I still wouldn't have AC. What are electric baseboard users doing for AC if they don't have duct work? We're getting ready to gut the downstairs. I thought that would be a good time to run duct work through the walls.

Window units could cover the AC needs for under a grand. Maybe also get a price for having a couple high efficiency mini-split systems installed like the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat units? They will provide AC and Heat down to about 0 degrees. Use the wood stove to supplement.