Intoduction and Insert Questions

[cruzer]

Hi! Found this site through arboristsite.com (thanks whoever linked to this site) My wife and I purchase our first home in February, 1806 Colonial. House is about 1800sqft, 4 open hearth fireplaces, and one cooking wood/coal stove in the kitchen (Waterford Wood Stanley to be exact). The kitchen is off the back of the house (original??) with no insulation. The main part of the house has entry way offset to the left with stairs landing up to the second floor. The living room is on the right and the dining room is opposite the entry door, through the dining room is the kitchen. I plan on using the Wood Stanley to help heat the kitchen area/bathroom/washing machine room and some of the dining room. The problem is that now I have a huge heat difference between the back of the house and the front of the house and the thermostat is in the dining room (interior wall opposite the kitchen doorway) So my thought is to install an insert into the living room fireplace in order to heat the living area/entryway/bedrooms(bedroom above the living room has a nice 12/x24grate in the floor to get heat up into the master bedroom). I really would just put a wood stove in their but my wife says no way she wants a “fire place” and we compromised on an insert.

The problem (or so it seems) that I am running into with the fireplace I want to install the insert into is that it is only 13inches deep and about 24inch wide at the back. Front is like 43inches wide and the height is about 30inches. Now comes the most important criteria= Cost I would like to keep the total install (stove and liner) down under 1500-1800 dollars (going on CC that will get paid off with savings from not running oil furnace hopefully…yeah I know not the best choice but the other choice is using 250-300gallons of oil a month and even at 2.65/gallon we are talking 4K+ a year in heating expenses).

The stoves that I have been researching (some I have come across on here and others just through searching online) have been the following

Englander 13NCI, installation depth min. is 14inches, surround is not quite big enough, and both of these issues might be solved with some sheet metal work and spacers???? Haven’t actually seen the insert in person just the stoves at Lowes and HD. Lowes quote was about 1147.00, I think ACEhardwareoutlet online has it for 999.00(not sure on shipping/taxes). I have no problems fabricating some spacers/sheet metal to get what I need and it meets my cost criteria.

Kodiak 1200, installation depth 13.5inch min, larger surround available, total cost about 1400.00(base price does not include door/surround which is odd to me and have found a few stoves that the door is optional(hahaha))

Regency H2100- probably out of my price range, need to go talk to dealer??? I actually like this option the best because it gives me more radiant heat and the installation depth is pretty low(no min required) I think it’s going to be out of my price range and sticking out to far into the room to be a “fire place” as my wife wants.


I am planning on going to at least one dealer tonight (Kodiak) and possibly one at lunch (regency)

Any thoughts on the install dilemma and of possibly finding a stove that will fit my fireplace for my cost criteria?? I will be doing the installation myself.

Thanks for you help and great site. Hopefully my long post does not deter folks from reading this far.


Stew

 

[webbie]

It could be tough with that budget. I am also assuming that your chimney is completely unlined (if it is that old) and therefore needs to have an insulated liner. Depending on height, material cost for DIY there could run $800 at the low end, and probably $1000.

That leaves 800-100 for the stove. If you want heat for the $$$, you are not going to want a small stove. Please read the wiki article on how to choose a stove before you get started.....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Choosing_a_Wood_Stove/

Inserts are usually more expensive than stoves, and that limits you also with the shallow fireplace. Yes, you might be able to do a little modification on the panels, etc. as long as the chimney is lined and a sheet metal block off plate is installed.

It's going to be tough to get a complete medium + insert for that price in the Regency, Travis and other premium lines.

Some people here may tell you that this money will be better spent on insulation and conservation - I might agree with that. Making the house use less heat is preferable to multiple stoves....at least for starters.Are there projects that you can do involving insulation, windows, etc. which might make a big difference? This way you could use the Stanley the first year and it would give you time to build up a bigger wood pile. etc.

The Suze Orman in me says it might not be too wise to borrow the money at high rates (anything over 10-12%). What you are doing, in effect, is to give the CC company a large part of your potential and real savings. You might also look at used stoves - there are bargains to be had.

 

[cruzer]

Thanks for the reply-

I have been going through the house buttoning up air leaks and insulating were needed. Guess i could go above the kitchen and insulate that for not big money. I am also putting the super duper cool shrink wrap on all the windows...wife loves the way it looks inside You are probably right that buttoning up the house will be better money spent vs. buying a stove, liner, and using more wood to basicly heat the outside air....

The chiminey does need a liner and insulation as it is unlined. I have been burning wood in the open hearth for ambiance but fairly quickly i am going to stuff a bunch of inuslation up their just to block it off for the time being. One fire place is already blocked off by insulaiton, the diningroom one needs a sheet metal plate because it is the oilburner flue so really don't want to be using that as two appliances. The forth is in a small room that stays shut most of the time.

I maybe better off getting a small used stove and buying the liner this year(6 inch seems to be the most popluar)... we'll see........probably shouldn't do anything this year and just save money by keeping a bit cooler in the house and insulating/sealing air leaks...

We have been running electric space heaters when it gets very cold out....which does help... and electric heat is 100% efficient....

Stewart

 

[yukiginger]

Check your local Craigslist (I see 4 for CT) for used stoves, although in my quick search I saw many people in CT looking for stoves.

Also, I don't know what shipping costs or if it would fit for you, but a Drolet (at a dealer or online) might work:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200316353_200316353

Liner kits shouldn't run much more than $400 online. You could dry going without insulation around the liner to see how it works for you, as that stuff is really expensive.

MarkG

 

[eernest4]

hi cruizer,

www.craigslist.com & click on free stuff to see who is giving away firewood or pallets or old lumber.


home depot sells (broken link removed)
lowes home improvements sells summersheat which is newenglanderstoves other brand name

maybe chech out www.tractorsupply.com in new millford or endfield to see what inserts they carry

drolit.com stoves from www.northerntools.com

these are the least expensive stoves & inserts I could find , after lots & lots of looking.

I was just doing a pass by at lowes in plainville, looking 4 a table saw , but I noticed that they were nearly sold out of wood & pellet stoves . they only had left a few of the smallest 1000 sq ft
models left.

I think that now that fuel oil has hit $3.oo a gallon, many many people are switching to wood & pellets. So, cheap stoves/ inserts may be really scarce.

www.bargainnews.com and look for used stoves/ inserts. Make sure anything you buy is
epa certified and ul listed , so you can keep your homeowners insurance. They cancel your insurance if you put in a home made stove or an illegal, not up to code, chimney installation.

 

[Gooserider]

Check your local Craigslist (I see 4 for CT) for used stoves, although in my quick search I saw many people in CT looking for stoves.

Also, I don't know what shipping costs or if it would fit for you, but a Drolet (at a dealer or online) might work:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200316353_200316353

Liner kits shouldn't run much more than $400 online. You could dry going without insulation around the liner to see how it works for you, as that stuff is really expensive.

MarkG

Given the age of the house, the chimney is almost certainly NOT NFPA compliant, so in order to have a code - legal installation, the OP MUST use an insulated liner, as the insulation is required to meet code - it also isn't that much more given the cost of the liner and the labor to put it in.

BTW, the existing fireplace sounds like a "Rumford" design, and those are supposed to be relatively efficient as open fireplaces go, if properly built.

My thought would be that the best plan would be to limp through this winter on Dino-juice and the existing setups, while doing everything possible to weather-seal the house, then take advantage of next summer to put in a good 6" insulated liner and insert install, hopefully with slightly increased savings.

Gooserider