Introduction, Stove Installation Considerations, Including How Much Does the Stovepipe Contribute to

[Renovation]

Greetings!

Hello, this is my first post. I've been lurking for awhile, and have much enjoyed and appreciated the posts here. Thanks!

I'm renovating a wrecked 2000 farmhouse in SW Michigan, and keeping my spirits up by reading and planning for the wood stove I'll get. So far I'm leaning towards the Alderlea T6, or maybe the Englander, depending on my finances.

At the moment I'm planning the location of the stove and new chimney. The stove would be centered along a wall in my great room, below a steel chimney going straight up inside the 2 story house and through the roof.

I'm pondering how close to run the chimney to the outside wall, balancing factors such as stove and stovepipe clearance to rear wall, clearance to a ceiling fan in front of the stove. I'd like to locate the stove as close to the rear wall as possible, while maintaining safety and efficient heating. I've downloaded the required clearances to the stoves So here are the things I'm pondering.

1. How much does the stovepipe contribute to heating? Would I get significantly more heat if I increase clearances so that I could run single wall stovepipe rather than double wall? I was considering single-wall with a stovepipe shield on the back, but would that add significant heat versus a double wall stovepipe?

2. How much horizontal distance should I leave between the stovepipe and the blades on a ceiling fan that is located 1' below an 8' ceiling? It's a tight fit for the fan between the stovepipe and a beam, and for best circulation I'd like to get the fan as close to the stovepipe as is safe. I imagine the fan would be safe when on, and I plan to have it on whenever the stove is running, but I'm concerned about safety if the power fails, etc. I'm hoping that safe clearance would be closer than to a wall because of circulation--anyone know? Are fireproof blades available? Has anyone tried them?

3. Should I put in a stovepipe damper in my 2 story installation?

4. Is there anything else I should consider?

Right now I'm thinking of locating the 6" stovepipe connector on the ceiling with 12" clearance from the rear of the pipe to the wall, and using single-wall pipe with a stovepipe shield on the back. But if the stovepipe doesn't contribute much heat perhaps I should just go to double-wall and make the installation easier and safer?

Thanks for any help, and for all the help you've already given me.

All the Best, George

 

[vvvv]

tall chimni is superdraft. I'd do singlewall much as possible + flue damper, guessing stove is gonna wanna overfire from specs
pre epa= stove with 3' rise & 3' run to a block chimni, the pipe would contribute 30% of the heat

 

[Pagey]

Whatever route you go, keep in mind that the vast majority of the heat is going to come from your stove. Sure, single wall will radiate more heat, relatively speaking. But don't let that dictate your choices in the end. Double wall offers: a stainless steel interior, UL listing, longer lifespan, closer clearances, warmer flue gases, potential for less creosote, etc.

That's not saying that double wall stove pipe will be superior for your application, but those are factors to keep in mind. Go with what works best for your home and your peace of mind.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Years ago there seemed to be lots of debate about how much pipe to have indoors so as to capture as much heat as possible. Simple answer; get the heat from the stove and let the flue do its thing. The flue needs some heat in order to keep taking out the bad stuff you don't want in the house. Rob too much of that heat and you have problems. Simple answer, use dbl wall pipe and forget the heat from the single wall and then if power goes out you won't be worrying. It will be better for the chimney too. Good luck.

 

[begreen]

Not quite certain I understand the installation here. How tall will the connector pipe be here? Ideally if single-wall, it should not be over 8-10'. You can get a bit more heat from the pipe, but at the expense of cooling the flue gases to the point of condensation which makes creosote deposits. and possibly poorer draft. Remember, double-wall pipe also radiates some heat, just not as much.

 

[Renovation]

Thanks to all, I do appreciate your insights.

Not quite certain I understand the installation here. How tall will the connector pipe be here?

I'm planning my install in my first floor great room, back to a wall under an 8' ceiling. The connector pipe would be almost almost vertical (with maybe a 1' jog to get me between the roof joists) from the top of the stove to the 8' ceiling--so maybe 5' of connector. Then perhaps 16' of chimney pipe straight up through the second floor and out through the roof.

From what I'm hearing I shouldn't sweat (pun intended) extracting heat from the connector, and just go with double wall to keep the chimney clean and the fire in the stove?

It also sounds like I should be prepared in case of overdraft with a stovepipe damper?

Does that sound like a good setup--double wall stovepipe, with stovepipe damper? That might help keep my chimney clean, while also allowing long burns? Amazingly enough, I've actually learned to take expert advice when I get it, sometimes!

Thanks for your encouragement. Reading your stories and planning my stove help keep my dreams alive during this renovation.

 

[ansehnlich1]

It sounds like you are basically running your stove pipe straight up off the stove, through a ceiling, then straight up and out through the roof, with a little jog right off the woodstove to position the pipe for a straight run up.

Use single wall pipe wherever you can unless clearances dictate otherwise, or you simply have the $$$ and choose to use double.

Observe clearances with that ceiling fan too. That fan can and will circulate air even if placed elsewhere in the room.

Control of your woodfire should be no problem without the damper. If you wish to put one in right from the start go ahead, but you may not need it. Current stove technology provides airtight fireboxes and stovepipe dampers are seldom needed.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

On the damper, they used to always be installed but very few need them now. I would not put one in if it were my install. You can always add one later if you think you need it but that is doubtful.

 

[pen]

I installed one because they are cheap and it can't hurt. I close it in the summer and it seems to slow down a downdraft that I occasionally get that makes my stove room smell. Also, if I were to do something stupid and get the stove overfiring, it would be one more line of defense for getting it "whoooa'd"

pen

 

[firefighterjake]

Greetings!

Hello, this is my first post. I've been lurking for awhile, and have much enjoyed and appreciated the posts here. Thanks! No problem . . . we get paid 3 cents for each reply we make and 5 cents for each post started so many of us tend to post a lot . . . just kidding . . . actually most of us were helped here when we got started and find the comraderie here to very rewarding . . . and so we continue to post (and learn from each other). This place is truly one of my favorite places to "hang" out at on the web.

I'm renovating a wrecked 2000 farmhouse in SW Michigan, and keeping my spirits up by reading and planning for the wood stove I'll get. So far I'm leaning towards the Alderlea T6, or maybe the Englander, depending on my finances. Is this a 2,000 square foot farmhouse . . . or a farmhouse built in 2000 that was wrecked on purpose or accidentally through a natural disaster? Just curious . . . in either cas . . . have faith . . . renovating a home is both a joy and a curse . . . sometimes it seems as though you are barely making any headway until you look back a few weeks, months or years later and realize just how much you have changed and completed.

At the moment I'm planning the location of the stove and new chimney. The stove would be centered along a wall in my great room, below a steel chimney going straight up inside the 2 story house and through the roof. Sounds to me like a good location -- centrally located and in the room where you probably plan to spend a lot of time hanging out . . .

I'm pondering how close to run the chimney to the outside wall, balancing factors such as stove and stovepipe clearance to rear wall, clearance to a ceiling fan in front of the stove. I'd like to locate the stove as close to the rear wall as possible, while maintaining safety and efficient heating. I've downloaded the required clearances to the stoves Short answer . . . follow the manufacturer's installation instructions in regards to minimum clearance requirements for walls . . . this is important.

So here are the things I'm pondering.

1. How much does the stovepipe contribute to heating? Would I get significantly more heat if I increase clearances so that I could run single wall stovepipe rather than double wall? I was considering single-wall with a stovepipe shield on the back, but would that add significant heat versus a double wall stovepipe? I ran into this myself . . . I read where folks said single wall pipe gives you more heat . . . but my wife and I wanted more room in the house and we had to go out and up with the chimney so we ended up using double wall . . . and honestly . . . as Backwoods said . . . most of the heat we gain is from the stove and not the chimney . . . and while we may "lose" some heat by not having single wall pipe our house is toasty warm and we don't miss the "lost" heat . . . but we do gain closer clearances . . . to me . . . it's a good deal.

2. How much horizontal distance should I leave between the stovepipe and the blades on a ceiling fan that is located 1' below an 8' ceiling? It's a tight fit for the fan between the stovepipe and a beam, and for best circulation I'd like to get the fan as close to the stovepipe as is safe. I imagine the fan would be safe when on, and I plan to have it on whenever the stove is running, but I'm concerned about safety if the power fails, etc. I'm hoping that safe clearance would be closer than to a wall because of circulation--anyone know? Are fireproof blades available? Has anyone tried them? Not really sure about the answers to these questions . . . never heard of any fire proof fan blades . . . what I might suggest is that the ceiling fan may not be all that crucial . . . in renovating our house we took out our ceiling fan in the dining room and are replacing it with a light fixture . . . if you're thinking that the ceiling fan would be helpful in moving the heat you can accomplish the same thing with a standard floor fan from Walmart pointed towards the stove. If you keep the fan you need to maintain proper clearances from the stove and stove pipe.

3. Should I put in a stovepipe damper in my 2 story installation? Usually . . . no . . . most folks with EPA stoves have no need for a stove pipe damper. About the only folks I see sticking a damper in their stove pipe are folks who have found issues with drafts that are too strong . . . typically found with very tall chimneys. My own opinion . . . try before you buy . . . if things work out without a damper you've saved a few bucks . . . if the draft is too strong installnig a damper should be easy to do after the fact.

4. Is there anything else I should consider? Hmmm . . . best bit of advice . . . take the time to learn what the clearance requirements are for the stoves you are looking at and follow them to the letter.

Right now I'm thinking of locating the 6" stovepipe connector on the ceiling with 12" clearance from the rear of the pipe to the wall, and using single-wall pipe with a stovepipe shield on the back. But if the stovepipe doesn't contribute much heat perhaps I should just go to double-wall and make the installation easier and safer? Me . . . I would go with the double wall and make things simpler . . . then again I'm just a simple, dumb Maine Hick Firefighter.

Thanks for any help, and for all the help you've already given me.

All the Best, George

 

[vvvv]

the taller the chimni, the stronger the draft + the hotter the chimni, the stronger the draft add the 2 & u get overfiring of stove & consequences....read this http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

 

[Renovation]

Grrrrrrreat!

Thanks all for your replies. I appreciate your helpfulness, and friendly tolerance of differing priorities and ideas. Nice.

From what you've said, I am planning on the double wall pipe, for a relatively compact installation that exceeds minimum clearances to combustibles, including the ceiling fan. Fortunately, the Englander NC30 and the PE Alderlea T6 have very similar clearances, so the setup should work for either.

From your remarks, I'm thinking that I can compensate for the reduced heating of a double wall stove pipe by increasing air circulation around the stove with a fan--either internal or external. So double-wall looks like the stove pipe for me.

I also think I'll install the stovepipe damper, just for the extra control and knob to play with. I believe I've read more than one thread on here where folks have struggled to figure out why they couldn't damp their fire enough, and I'm wondering if overdraft might have been a factor. (All theoretical for me for the time being.) That Florida Bungalow article is food for thought.

As for when it got wrecked, my farmhouse was built in 1906, poorly updated and expanded in 1979, then run into the ground. Think of the Brady Bunch house turned to crack house. Out went the interior down to the studs, and every opened wall or ceiling revealed sub-standard shortcuts from the foundation to the attic. So I'm making it all right, and would rather not burn it now.

Stay warm and cool.