Is it Too Late

[lostDuck]

All,
I am new to this forum and I am looking at purchasing an Osburn Matrix online since this is one of the few flush inserts in my price range (3k) trying to heat a 1900 sqft colonial. While i have gleaned a lot of information from the site I now have more questions than before I started and would like your input on some of my concerns.

1) Wood .... I don't have a supply and the site has me worried that "seasoned" wood won't be dry enough for a wood stove. Should I hold off on my purchase for a year and stock up on wood this year?

2)Osburn Matrix.... There are only a few reviews of this unit. Does anyone have feedback on the unit (heating, burn time, reliability).

3)Buying online/installation... What are your experiences with buying units online (especially Osburn) there are only a few dealer in Connecticut and the reviews of these dealers are less than sellar. Also Is it possible to contract someone to install the unit and a new chimney liner. Does this have any impact on the warranty?

Sorry for the long first post.
Thanks for your feedback.

 

[weatherguy]

I can answer a couple questions. You MIGHT be able to find some seasoned wood, there's a member here from CT that seems to have found someone that sells wood dry enough to burn and at a good price, I think he's in southern CT. I'd look around and see if you can find some wood dry enough this year and then decide whether to buy this year or not.
I think the Matrix has had some good reviews here, a couple members have one, you can do a search to find out more info.
If your close enough for the wood dealer to deliver to I can find the post and you can contact the member to get the sellers info.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Osburn would be the people to ask to find out if the warranty is affected by a non dealer installation. I don't know if I would trust anybody but the company to give that information.

I'd check with chimney sweeps to see if they will do the installation of a liner and stove for you. It's probably not a bad idea to have a sweep do it since they can check the condition of the chimney while they're at it and recommend insulation if needed. There are certifications for chimney sweeps, but I couldn't tell you what they are.

Matt

 

[mellow]

I will comment on the wood, you will need to find someone who has Kiln Dried firewood, this will be more expensive but it should be good to burn.

(broken link removed)
http://www.fireitupfirewood.com/index.html
http://www.firewoods.net/ne/CT.aspx

 

[ddddddden]

Not to disagree with the kiln-dried wood recommendation, but at the prices for kiln-dried that I've seen, you might as well buy bricks of compressed sawdust, IMO. Many stove manufacturers say that burning these will void your warranty, because they are more energy dense than natural wood, making it easier to overfire the stove. . .just don't be stupid about it, and you should be fine. i.e. don't pack the stove full of them. Try ~ 3 bricks the first time you burn them, then work your way up on future loads, after you have a good idea of how they burn.

http://originalbiobricks.com

http://bio-div.com

http://ecobrick.net

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/red-stone-eco-bricks-vs-eco-energy-fuel-blocks.104552/

 

[blades]

Buying the stove now for this season is the pricy way to fly, plus most of the shops are going to real busy just because of a lot of other procrastinators. Now if you wait on the stove until mid winter, next spring there might be some inventory clearance sales allowing you to save a few bucks. Spring /summer is the slower time for stove shops. That would also take you out of the kiln dried purchase and maybe be a bit further ahead fuel wise. Some types like big leaf maples, ash, some elms might be ready to go by next fall if purchased now stacked single row in a good spot. hey you can even due some scrounging. Besides the price of the stove it self you will need to add another chunk of change in for your flue system. Generally and existing masonry flue will need to be lined. Reason is that it is generally to large allowing flue gasses to cool to quickly which causes the creosote problems. Another is that a big masonry flue is very hard to get a draft started and that means problems lighting the stove, back drafting ect. Bite the bullet, step back from this year, plan on next year so that you can get all your ducks in a row, makes for a much better experience. Then crank up the heat and chase the Mrs around stove room if so inclined.

 

[eclecticcottage]

We made it through year 1 with our stove with bought wood mixed with ecobricks. There is a local seller on CL claiming seasoned wood that's dry or your $$ back, so maybe there's a chance of finding some. I'd buy a moisture meter and test it yourself though!

If you CAN wait, you'll probably find a better deal in springtime/summer. A few local stove shops here usually have deals when the county fairs are running.

Whether you wait or not, now's the time to get on your wood stash. Get it stacked loosely (plenty of space between rows, stacked in single rows off the ground) in a good sunny and windy location to maximize it drying.

 

[ddddddden]

There is a local seller on CL claiming seasoned wood that's dry or your $$ back. . .

Good luck with that. Most of the wood vendors I've found on CL have been real jackals.

. . .I'd buy a moisture meter and test it yourself though!

Yeah, go to their place and test it. . .then you can go back and rage on them if the wood they deliver is not as dry as what you tested. I've found that many try to avoid giving you their location. They just want to dump a load of $#!+ in your yard and disappear into the night. Seriously though, good luck with this. It's hard enough just getting an honest 128-cu-ft cord out of many of these guys/gals. Discussing moisture content is just a waste of time, IME.

Whether you wait or not, now's the time to get on your wood stash. Get it stacked loosely (plenty of space between rows, stacked in single rows off the ground) in a good sunny and windy location to maximize it drying.

+1

If you CAN wait, you'll probably find a better deal in springtime/summer. . .

+1
~ 20% off, maybe more on a demo stove.
You could buy a lot of wood with that $.

 

[lostDuck]

All,
I appreciate the input. I have a lot to think about now. After some calls around the chances of getting good wood for under $250 a cord does not seem likely but I did like the eco bricks idea (@ 278 a ton here). Maybe I will just go buy everyone in the house a new sweater and a IOU for heat next year.

In any case i am going to go ahead and order a couple or cords of wood now so it will be ready next year.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Not to disagree with the kiln-dried wood recommendation, but at the prices for kiln-dried that I've seen, you might as well buy bricks of compressed sawdust, IMO. Many stove manufacturers say that burning these will void your warranty, because they are more energy dense than natural wood, making it easier to overfire the stove. . .just don't be stupid about it, and you should be fine. i.e. don't pack the stove full of them. Try ~ 3 bricks the first time you burn them, then work your way up on future loads, after you have a good idea of how they burn.

http://originalbiobricks.com

http://bio-div.com

http://ecobrick.net

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/red-stone-eco-bricks-vs-eco-energy-fuel-blocks.104552/

FYI, there's kiln-dried wood and then there's kiln-dried wood. The super-dry stuff sold in small bundles in convenience stores and the like is intended for kindling, and it would be both wildly expensive and very dangerous to use for more than that.

However, there's an increasing number of firewood suppliers in my neck of the woods anyway that sell kiln-dried cordwood-- as in an ordinary load of firewood dried to somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25 moisture, for around $250 a cord c/s/d. (full cord, not face cord) Given that prices for "seasoned" firewood -- meaning cut in the spring, and split to order in the fall -- go around $200 to $225 a cord here, the price of the kiln-dried is totally reasonable. (Green goes for around $175-$200)

If you don't have room, $$ or time to get three or four years ahead stacked outside to dry, it's definitely the way to go if the prices in your area are reasonable. With my sloped property making it impossible to stack that much firewood-- well, I can stack it, but the stacks fall over every time it rains or freezes and the ground shifts-- I went to kiln-dried three years ago and haven't looked back. It's also got the virtue of being clean, bug-free, mold-free, lovely stuff to handle.

 

[eclecticcottage]

Good luck with that. Most of the wood vendors I've found on CL have been real jackals.
Yeah, go to their place and test it. . .then you can go back and rage on them if the wood they deliver is not as dry as what you tested. I've found that many try to avoid giving you their location. They just want to dump a load of $#!+ in your yard and disappear into the night. Seriously though, good luck with this. It's hard enough just getting an honest 128-cu-ft cord out of many of these guys/gals. Discussing moisture content is just a waste of time, IME.

This is a pick up your own situation, so it's a little different. We bought ours from a place where you bought it off a stacked rack and they didn't deliver so you could see what you were getting. We knew it wasn't well seasoned, but it was the option we had, with no other heat source! I've seen others post for wood wanted stating they will be testing with a meter so if you weren't planning to bring seasoned wood, not to bother.

Many years ago, we were scheduled to get a wood stove in our Old House, so we bought some wood. We got shorted, and reported him to Weights and Measures. Ended up with a refund check after he went to court! Can't say that's common though. We never did get the wood stove there either, the stove shop totally messed up selling it to us and couldn't meet clearances so we ended up with a DV stove and the FIL got a few seasons of free wood!

We bought some wood delivered in year #1 from a local guy-seemed to stack at about right for what we paid, which was CHEAP ($50 a FC delivered) and he said if it didn't he'd bring more since he had his kids helping load. We also knew where he lived so he couldn't just vanish, lol.

Personally, I prefer to scrounge and CSS ourselves, but I think there are a FEW decent sellers out there, you just have to hunt for them!

 

[mellow]

Minus Kiln Dried Firewood no one in their right mind will stack Oak for 3 years and still only ask $200/cord for it. You are better off finding someone selling Green Maple for your first year so you can get a good years seasoning out of it.

 

[ddddddden]

Around here, the only guy kiln drying wants $345/cord, but his prices are a bit steep on 'seasoned' wood too. I bought a cord of regular from him for $135 delivered a few years ago. . .now $170 you haul. I guess he's busier now, and he's way legit compared to the CL scam artists, which is worth something.
(broken link removed)

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Why wait? When you find the unit you like best, buy it, for 1900sqft your going to need something very big.....make sure it has enough fire power....

 

[gyrfalcon]

Around here, the only guy kiln drying wants $345/cord, but his prices are a bit steep on 'seasoned' wood too. I bought a cord of regular from him for $135 delivered a few years ago. . .now $170 you haul. I guess he's busier now, and he's way legit compared to the CL scam artists, which is worth something.

The equipment to do this isn't that wildly expensive or complicated, so this being a capitalist country and all, I'm willing to bet you'll have more competitors getting into it and the price will come down. That's what happened here. One big lumber yard started doing this to keep their guys employed and bring in a little cash while they waited for the construction industry to revive, and 6 years later, I know of at least 4 new outfits in the state, all of which are charging less than the lumber yard.

And FYI, the CL guys aren't necessarily scam artists. Around here, a land of long-time wood burners, the definition of "seasoned" is stuff cut down in the spring, cut and split in the fall. That's the way folks around here have always done it, long before EPA got into the stove regulation business, and the vast majority of wood burners here are still using old smoke dragon stoves. The firm belief among rural people is that "old" wood -- ie, dry -- doesn't give much heat and causes problems with the stove and chimney. I've had a number of folks shake their heads and advise me urgently not to burn such dry wood. I know only one retired farmer who long ago figured out for himself that dry wood burns better, and he tells me he's been teased nearly to death by his friends and relations for his peculiar ideas about wood burning.

Odds are really high that those CL guys are rural people, not sophisticated suburbanites who know all about EPA stoves and their need for dry wood. Also, bear in mind that in the suburbs, most wood buyers want the stuff for the fireplace, not an actual wood stove heater.


,

 

[weatherguy]

Minus Kiln Dried Firewood no one in their right mind will stack Oak for 3 years and still only ask $200/cord for it. You are better off finding someone selling Green Maple for your first year so you can get a good years seasoning out of it.

Probably not but a member here gets his wood from a guy that cuts standing dead in a state forest and it looks like he's getting the real deal, c/s oak for $150 cord. I think he said he's going to get a moisture meter and test it but it's been burning great in his stove. Of course this is a rare example and the exception and not the rule but I guess it is possible to get seasoned wood so it's worth exploring if you're in a pinch.

 

[ddddddden]

And FYI, the CL guys aren't necessarily scam artists. Around here, a land of long-time wood burners, the definition of "seasoned" is stuff cut down in the spring, cut and split in the fall. That's the way folks around here have always done it. . .

Yeah, I make allowances for folk beliefs, etc. Like I said, discussing moisture content was just a waste of time, IME. Getting an honest cord out of most vendors on CL has been like pulling teeth, so I have to focus all of my energy on explaining that, yeah, when I buy a cord of wood, I expect 128 cu ft, just like I expect 128 oz in a gallon of milk. It's a pretty simple concept, but I've had so much difficulty that I can only conclude that this industry is a haven for scam artists. I don't even worry about cords anymore. Too much "My truck does too hold a cord!" I explain to them on the phone that I will be measuring the L x W x H of their truck bed, trailer, whatever, and that however many cu ft they bring = how many dollars they will be getting. (I look for ads priced ~ $125 /cord, $1 /cu ft.) Still have problems. People throwing fits about me wasting their time and gas. . .they are trying to play games, while I'm trying to keep things extremely simple, and explain in advance,"$1 /cu ft. You bring 100 cu ft, you get $100. You bring $200 cu ft, you get $200. You want to stick to cords? Bring 128 cu ft, get $128." Of course, we're talking stacked. Measuring piles is silly. Surprising how many folks want $100 for a 5 x 8 x 1.5' (60 cu ft) truck bed full of wood thrown in willy-nilly. . .~ 50 cu ft of wood, at best. . .probably closer to 40 cu ft. When I break it down like this, they act incredululous that I'm trying to negotiate on this "cord" of wood.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

All,
I am new to this forum and I am looking at purchasing an Osburn Matrix online since this is one of the few flush inserts in my price range (3k) trying to heat a 1900 sqft colonial. While i have gleaned a lot of information from the site I now have more questions than before I started and would like your input on some of my concerns.

1) Wood .... I don't have a supply and the site has me worried that "seasoned" wood won't be dry enough for a wood stove. Should I hold off on my purchase for a year and stock up on wood this year?

2)Osburn Matrix.... There are only a few reviews of this unit. Does anyone have feedback on the unit (heating, burn time, reliability).

3)Buying online/installation... What are your experiences with buying units online (especially Osburn) there are only a few dealer in Connecticut and the reviews of these dealers are less than sellar. Also Is it possible to contract someone to install the unit and a new chimney liner. Does this have any impact on the warranty?

Sorry for the long first post.
Thanks for your feedback.

Welcome to the forum lostDuck.

No need to aplogize. Asking questions as you are is what this forum is all about.

Others have posted some good information so I'll just touch one one and that is the installation. It is very possible to hire someone to install a stove and it does not have to be someone connected to the dealer or manufacturer. So long as they follow instructions, that is, codes and clearances, it should have no impact upon the warranty. It would be good though to know they are not a fly-by-night operation. Most good carpenters can do the job. After all, many do their own installs like we have in the past and we certainly are not certified. However, we also have had no problems. Installing stoves is not that difficult once you understand what has to be done. Good luck.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Welcome to the forum lostDuck.

No need to aplogize. Asking questions as you are is what this forum is all about.

Others have posted some good information so I'll just touch one one and that is the installation. It is very possible to hire someone to install a stove and it does not have to be someone connected to the dealer or manufacturer. So long as they follow instructions, that is, codes and clearances, it should have no impact upon the warranty. It would be good though to know they are not a fly-by-night operation. Most good carpenters can do the job. After all, many do their own installs like we have in the past and we certainly are not certified. However, we also have had no problems. Installing stoves is not that difficult once you understand what has to be done. Good luck.

But read the fine print. With my new stove, it specifically says that labor will not be covered under the warranty unless the dealer does the install. Parts yes, but if I need to have somebody come to my house to diagnose and/or replace a part, a faulty part would be free, but I'd have to pay for that labor, including travel time, myself. If the dealer had done the install, that labor and travel time would be no cost to me in the first year.

 

[BrotherBart]

Many self installs are better than pro installs. Like the fellow that finished his own basement and was nervous when the inspector came to sign off on the work. The inspector commented "Did it yourself.". The guy flushed and said "How did you know? Did I make that many mistakes?" and the inspector replied "No. You didn't make any mistakes because you don't know how to cover them up.".

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I simply would not buy from any dealer who required having their installers doing the work.

 

[BrotherBart]

There is a good point to buying installation and the stove from the same place. It is a system and having one vendor responsible for the whole shebang ain't a bad thing. Cuts out the finger pointing. I paid more to contract the roof and gutters from the same place for exactly that reason. No finger pointing if there is a problem.

But I wouldn't let anybody install my stoves and chimneys on a bet. Plenty of info here to do it myself.

 

[lostDuck]

Gryfalcon, good point that is why I am looking at the osburn because the warranty does not seem to have that exclusion. Also its not that i mind going through the dealer and paying more its that the service dealers provide around Hartford,ct (at least the ones i have visited) are less than optimal. Heck the largest local dealer for Lopi has a D- rating with the BBB.
I am really tempted to just hire a chimney sweep. I have spoken to a few and they are willing to clean the flue and install the 30' liner (i don't like heights) that i provide for $600 or so.

BrotherBart is right though this forum is a wood stove immersion course in less than a month I am so much more aware of the whole process.

Again thanks all for the great advice. Having the first freeze of the year tonight and listening to my oil boiler burning through the $ really makes me want to pull a trigger on the fireplace insert.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Gryfalcon, good point that is why I am looking at the osburn because the warranty does not seem to have that exclusion. Also its not that i mind going through the dealer and paying more its that the service dealers provide around Hartford,ct (at least the ones i have visited) are less than optimal. Heck the largest local dealer for Lopi has a D- rating with the BBB.
I am really tempted to just hire a chimney sweep. I have spoken to a few and they are willing to clean the flue and install the 30' liner (i don't like heights) that i provide for $600 or so.

BrotherBart is right though this forum is a wood stove immersion course in less than a month I am so much more aware of the whole process.

Again thanks all for the great advice. Having the first freeze of the year tonight and listening to my oil boiler burning through the $ really makes me want to pull a trigger on the fireplace insert.

Do double check with the dealer because I'm pretty sure that whether labor is covered is usually up to them. I ultimately decided for a number of reasons not to worry about that since this is my second stove in the same spot and the likelihood of having something really mysterious go wrong that needs a service call in the first year seems fairly small. The question really is whether you have resources other than the dealer if you run into trouble of some kind. A really good chimney sweep can often, but not always, be that resource. My first sweep, who was great with all things chimney and flue, did such a horrible job replacing the gasket for me on my old stove (at my request since I'd never done it before), it ended up way too tight and not just the latch broke, but the lip in the cast doorframe that holds the latch closed wore off.

As for the boiler burning dollar bills down in the cellar, amen to that. The sound of silence is wonderful.