Is Regency F5200 the right choice?

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Bezb18

New Member
Oct 4, 2022
6
Harford county Maryland
I am looking to purchase a F5200 for my house. The house is 2 years old with an insulated basement (superior walls). The main house is 3600sqft will a full basement so over 5000 total. Currently the house is using 2 heat pumps one for the main floor and one for the top floor. My hope is to use the staircase from the basement and the hvac on recirculate to heat the basement and main floor when the weather drops below 30. I am wondering if I have the right stove for the job and if my plan will actually work. If I act soon I can get the stove installed this year to take advantage of the rebate. I have attached floor plans for my house, 10 ft ceilings in the basement and main floor. The red highlight is where the wood stove would go. Thanks in advance for all your help!

Thanks!
Ben

[Hearth.com] Is Regency F5200 the right choice?
 
I am looking to purchase a F5200 for my house. The house is 2 years old with an insulated basement (superior walls). The main house is 3600sqft will a full basement so over 5000 total. Currently the house is using 2 heat pumps one for the main floor and one for the top floor. My hope is to use the staircase from the basement and the hvac on recirculate to heat the basement and main floor when the weather drops below 30. I am wondering if I have the right stove for the job and if my plan will actually work. If I act soon I can get the stove installed this year to take advantage of the rebate. I have attached floor plans for my house, 10 ft ceilings in the basement and main floor. The red highlight is where the wood stove would go. Thanks in advance for all your help!

Thanks!
Ben

View attachment 300014
Are you hoping to heat the whole house with one stove?
 
Hoping to heat the main floor and basement. The basement says around 67 year round without heating vents now. So yes I am but I’m not expecting that the heat pumps would never turn on especially the one for the top floor.
Ok. The basement and first floor might be possible. The 10' ceilings add allot of cubic feet though. The 5200 is just about the biggest and highest BTU stove available though so its probably your best chance
 
Have you put up enough wood to feed that beast?

Buying now and hoping to burn in a couple months will lead to frustration. Purchased firewood is rarely dry enough.
 
It works best if the air can run in a circuit. Warm air up the stairs, but how does the cold air come down to replace the air that left the basement? If thru the same stairs, things will mix and the efficiency of heating the upstairs will be lower.
 
Would this be better accomplished by turning my HVAC system on recirculate? The HVAC system (main floor and basement) is all inside the insulation envelope of the house and my basement is unfinished so I could put a return near the stove. Also, I have a door to the basement stairs so I could keep that open or closed depending on which worked better in combination with the recirculate of the HVAC.
 
A return near the stove may be problematic as it decreases the pressure there. It is illegal if closer than 10 ft.

I would first insulate the basement; you may be losing 30 pct of the BTUs right there without insulation.

I have a duct that sucks the cold air from my LR floor and deposits it on the basement floor, pushing the hot air near the basement ceiling up the stairs onto the main floor. (If you go this route, add a fire damper as you create a penetration in a fire barrier.)
 
A return near the stove may be problematic as it decreases the pressure there. It is illegal if closer than 10 ft.

I would first insulate the basement; you may be losing 30 pct of the BTUs right there without insulation.

I have a duct that sucks the cold air from my LR floor and deposits it on the basement floor, pushing the hot air near the basement ceiling up the stairs onto the main floor. (If you go this route, add a fire damper as you create a penetration in a fire barrier.)
They said it was already insulated
 
I interpreted the "unfinished" basement as insulated - and that may be incorrect.
 
I interpreted the "unfinished" basement as insulated - and that may be incorrect.
Thanks that makes sense. Yes, the basement is insulated, so I should be good there. I was hoping to use the recirculate to distribute the warm air around the house that way it would distribute to rooms blocked by doors. The one side of my main floor is an in-law suite, so the doors stay shut to that side of the house. But I do understand what you are saying about moving cold air to the basement with the recirculate (return on main floor) and moving warm air up the stairs, it's jus the opposite of my initial plan.
 
Basements often have lower pressures already, sucking air out of the basement is going to make that worse. Probability of smoke roll out will be larger.
 
Have you put up enough wood to feed that beast?

Buying now and hoping to burn in a couple months will lead to frustration. Purchased firewood is rarely dry enough.
Unfortunately, I have not bought the wood yet. I am ok if I am not able to fully use the the stove this year. I was able to heat last year with the heat pumps. Because my house is 3 stories I need a lot of class A pipe so the installed price is pretty high. The $2000 cap on the rebate will cause me to lose a lot of money if I do not get the stove installed in 2022.
 
I would not let a rebate push me too fast into an installation that could be the wrong one.

I think more stove research is called for. I would also suggest that a stove/wood furnace with a thermostat is going to be an advantage for you because of more constant and even heat output, which helps negate the need for those super high burns for extended lengths of time try to play “catch-up” with the home’s temperature.

Personally, my feeling is I don’t care if you choose the largest Osburn, Blaze King, Lopi, Regency, etc., they’re all going to be borderline too small and if not they’ll most certainly be running near full tilt, if not full tilt, the majority of the time…regardless of insulation up and down and in the basement. Any way you slice it that is a lot of home and I’m pretty familiar with that much cubic feet and even more square feet of home. My aunt and uncle tried to heat 6000 with 8’ ceilings and now they just use the gas furnace. They couldn’t keep up with the wood demand even when using the wood burning add-on and a stove. So they stick with gas now.

The Regency Pro F5200 is only advertised at 80,000btu’s. https://www.regency-fire.com/en/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F5200#divFullSpecs It has the secondary air tubes and the catalyst, but not the btu’s you need. Not even close. So, the 30 hour burn time will be nothing near that, not even close, since it’ll be running near or at maximum capacity the majority of the time during the coldest months. It’s a well built stove, but unfortunately most stoves manufactured today aren’t designed to last more than ten years running that hard. Call them (any company) and ask the what the life of the stove is running full tilt most of the time.

The Blaze King 40 has the thermostat, but not enough btu’s, in my opinion, at only 57,000btu’s. https://www.blazeking.com/products/wood-stoves/king-classic/ The btu rating is actually lower than that when allowing for a higher constant burn for 12 hours.

Again, you’re going to be running these stoves full tilt near all the time Dec/Jan/Feb with some fluctuation, but potential for super cold depending on the weather pattern for those three months. The square feet is one thing, and these stoves can handle that, but you add in ten foot ceilings and I think all bets are off.

Lopi Liberty https://www.travisindustries.com/Docs/100-01511.pdf only 63,000+ btu’s and NO thermostat. So forget about it. You’ll be feeding it every 6-8 hours.


Drolet HT3000
Much higher btu rating than the Lopi, but not recommend for the space according to Drolet. https://www.google.com/search?q=Drolet+HT+3000&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Since it’s an SBI stove them all of their brands including Drolet, Osburn, etc., are capable of higher heat output but not recommended for the space and you would be feeding them every 6-10 hours. That’s a lot of variability with tending times.

Woodstock


If you study these stoves and compare them with each other, paying attention to the following…then use the same perimeters to look at other brand stoves, you’ll realize you can’t just look at one of these places o compare stoves. You need to compare all stove by the following:
-btu or heat range output
-area recommended to heat
-physical size and weight of stoves compared
-Firebox size
-Burn time

Mass matters!

1. Some will argue that that a stove with h lots of mass takes more time heat up and more time to lose its heat. Both of these are correct.

2. Some will argue that thinner heats up faster but also cools faster. Again, both are correct.

The important thing is that once heavy mass is heated up it’s the tending times where it benefits you most because the stove remains hotter during those times.

Physical size matters as well. A person only needs to compare the three stoves I linked to from Woodstock to see that if you only compare the btu ratings that can be misleading without looking at the recommendations for the amount of space to be heated and then look at the physical size of the stove themselves as o see btu’s only doesn’t tell the full story.

DS Energymax 160
(broken link removed to https://dsofpa.com/wp-content/uploads/DS_Brochures_EnergyMax_2021_ToPub_HighWeb.pdf).

-Thermostat for constant and even heat output
-large heating area recommended
-High btu output rating 160,000 btu’s
-Firebox size very large
-Ability to burn both wood and coal and with the thermostat extends burn times of both fuels. Will still eat a lot of wood though.
-Needs zero electricity from o help move convection air through the home.
-Very large physical sized stove which won’t have to be run as hard for as long, plus thermostat helps with this too.
-Heavy mass over 1000lbs
-Shaker grates means no shoveling of ash.
-Ash pan means easier disposal.

You are going to need something bigger than an ordinary average stove. The F5200 is bigger than average. I happen to think it will be far from enough.

I’m not going to recommend any stove. I’m just pointing you to links to explain what I’m talking about and for you to make a decision on yourself. There are pro’s and con’s to every choice depending on your wants and needs. Your needs will remain unknown until you make a decision and gain experience with that particular stove. You will then decide if your needs were met or not, at which point it may be too late as money will be spent and/or wasted and more money may need to be spent. Consider all your options.

Remember, only linked to a few stoves. There are more stoves out there. Whether they fit your needs or not will be up to you and your research.

EDIT:
By the way, be prepared to cut, split, stack, or buy 15-20 cords of wood to get ready for your first burning season and to get ahead on the 2-3 year seasoned wood plan, preferably the 3 year plan. You’re going to need it…a lot of it on hand and seasoning. Each year you replace what you used and repeat. The dryer the wood is the better off you will be. Don’t forget to top cover it all.

I wish you luck. To heat soley with wood will likely be a daunting task, imo. Coal would be better as it burns hotter, but even with that I don’t envy you as you will remove lots of ash twice a day. So coal would be out as well if it were me. A coal stoker boiler might be a good option, something like an Axeman Anderson unit, but it would never be placed inside the home or basement.
 
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Thank very much for all the information. I have to say, I was incorrect I have 9ft ceilings not 10 (sorry about that). Also, my plan was to supplement my heat pump on very cold days with the stove and have it as a backup heating source. It sounds like maybe it wouldn’t be as affective at supplementing as I hoped. Again I appreciate all the information you provided!
 
Thank very much for all the information. I have to say, I was incorrect I have 9ft ceilings not 10 (sorry about that). Also, my plan was to supplement my heat pump on very cold days with the stove and have it as a backup heating source. It sounds like maybe it wouldn’t be as affective at supplementing as I hoped. Again I appreciate all the information you provided!
Supplemententing the heat pumps and slightly lower ceilings might make up the difference.

At any rate, someone mentioned a way for cold air to return to the basement from each floor. Don’t overlook that suggestion/recommendation because it is well worth considering.

My apologies as I posted thinking 10 ft ceilings and using the stoves and the “only” heat source.

Not familiar with heat pumps from personal use standpoint. I just know that my in-laws had several. All broke (3 in one home and 5 total) and had to be replaced and were expensive to run once the real cold set in. Otherwise, in shoulder seasons of spring and fall they had no complaints. Now they don’t even have a heat pump but use a propane furnace.
 
the speed of heating up the stove won't be a big issue, as the basement volume will act as a moderator/thermal reservoir anyway. I.e. your stove may cool down a bit at the end of a burn, but the heat coming out of the basement will decrease much slower.

I would just take the biggest firebox you can get. You will be overheating the basement, but that way you get more heat up. And you'll have less trips down to reload.

Now, if you ever want to finish and use the basement space, you have to think about turn down (lower heat output) also, as playing around in 85 F there and then going back up is going to make you feel cold upstairs no matter how many degrees above 70 F you make it there.
 
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DS Energymax 160
(broken link removed to https://dsofpa.com/wp-content/uploads/DS_Brochures_EnergyMax_2021_ToPub_HighWeb.pdf).

-Thermostat for constant and even heat output
-large heating area recommended
-High btu output rating 160,000 btu’s
-Firebox size very large
-Ability to burn both wood and coal and with the thermostat extends burn times of both fuels. Will still eat a lot of wood though.
-Needs zero electricity from o help move convection air through the home.
-Very large physical sized stove which won’t have to be run as hard for as long, plus thermostat helps with this too.
-Heavy mass over 1000lbs
-Shaker grates means no shoveling of ash.
-Ash pan means easier disposal.


I wish you luck. To heat soley with wood will likely be a daunting task, imo. Coal would be better as it burns hotter, but even with that I don’t envy you as you will remove lots of ash twice a day. So coal would be out as well if it were me. A coal stoker boiler might be a good option, something like an Axeman Anderson unit, but it would never be placed inside the home or basement.
I agree with pretty much everything you said there other than saying stoves won't last more than 10 years when run at max output. Yes if you run a stove with the air wide open all the time it won't last long. But that isn't the stoves max output. You will just be over firing the stove and dumping tons of heat outside. If the stove is kept below the max operating temp. And is a well built stove it will last.

You are also putting to much emphasis on mass . Unless you are talking about masonry heaters weighing multiple tons there simply isn't enough mass to meaningfully extend the heat output time after the fire dies down. There can be a benefit of softening the heat variation through the burn with higher mass stoves though. That can also be done with a cat and proper air control as well though
 
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Well put and commented. I don't think a cat stove offers an advantage here. At maximum output its burn times will be roughly equal to a non-cat. The suggestion of a wood furnace is a good one for greater BTU capacity and the advantage of ducted distribution. In addition to the DS Heatmax, there are also the Lampa Kuuma Vapor Fire line and the Drolet line too.

(broken link removed)

We have a forum for wood boiler and furnace discussions here:
 
That softening effect (getting back to cruise temperature) is exactly what I am referring to.

I like to call it heat momentum. That is you don’t ever let that momentum die out, or the fire to die way down. You reload before the heat of the stove takes a real dive, and that is where/when the momentum is important. The inside temp takes a dive much before the stove itself does if there’s enough difference in mass.

A 300 lb stove versus a 500 pound, notmuch difference, there. but when you think of cheaper lighter weight stoves being 300 lbs versus say something like a 700 lb Woodstock or another 1000 lb stove, that weight and momentum, softening effect, whatever anyone wants to call it, does make a difference. That’s anywhere from 400-700 lbs difference in the examples links I gave. Set that much weight against the sides and/or on top of that stove and it’s a lot of extra mass throwing heat into the room. Mass that is the same temp as a thinner stove. It’s like having another stove or two sitting there radiating at the same temperature. I’m not referring to letting the stove go cold. Might as well have a thin sheet metal stove then.

Another example…
It takes a larger flame on my gas stove to maintain the surface temp of my 12” thin aluminum skillet or my carbon steel skillet (substitute for thin sheet steel…aluminum being a better conductor as well) versus having to turn the stove down to a much smaller flame to maintain the same surface temperature of my 12” cast iron skillet. Guess which one cools the fastest? Obvious you know which one. What I am talking about is the ability to get that skillet heated back to the same temperature after the heat is turned off. That iron skillet, as long as it’s not too long before turning the stove back on, will get back to the given running temperature faster because the iron skillet has more mass. Sure, there is a point of no return where it would take longer to heat it back up, just like the stove. For obvious reasons in either comparison you don’t want either of the examples to get too cold or you might as well have the skillet/stove with less mass.

I think we’re closer to agreeing than disagreeing. Two hundred (200 lbs) pounds may not make much difference but it’s not worth arguing that the difference isn’t even greater when there 400-700 lbs difference.

Mass and momentum have a way of making a difference weather it’s bullets, arrows, trains, automobiles, or heat coming from a stove. The greater the difference in mass the more heat is maintained easier. A home being heated is mass but not the source of the heat. The more even heat is maintained the less hot the stove needs to be. Of course, there are variables to account for that we aren’t discussing here which can alter the findings. In this scenario all things being equal.

It’s not so much the mass that I am referring to but the momentum that the mass extends the heat left in the stove at tending time.



As I said to the OP 9ft ceilings might make for a less critical decision, but certainly with that amount of sq ft and 10 ft ceilings I’d be looking at the furnaces Begreen mentioned because I’m doubtful a stove could keep up without the use of the heat pumps. Even with 9 ft ceilings that’s a lot of home to heat all floors.
 
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The basement itself, air and items, is providing the evening of the heating. I can have my stove be with only two 1" coals left, already hours below cat active temps, and there is still heat coming up from the basement to my LR floor. Stove does not provide heat anymore at that point.

If the basement is not used (and thus can be made hot), there is no need to have a stove that heats "evenly". The basement itsel will make the heat on the LR floor even.

A furnace is indeed a good idea for true heating rather than supplemental wood heat. And it fits with the "go as large as possible" (to make a dent in the need for other heating).
 
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A home itself without a basement (and better with if it’s insulated as you said) serves the same function in a way by absorbing radiant heat. Everything in it is a heat sink, just like the basement walls, just like a heavy mass stove, just like a heavy mass skillet or a heat exchanger in a stove.

Even with the basement no reason to give up the momentum of a heavy mass stove because it will serve just as the iron skillet does…once everything in the stove, everything in the room including the basement walls is heated, then the stove can use less flame to maintain the heat…just like using a smaller flame to maintain a given temperature of the heavier mass skillet. It’s the softening effect. Same principle. Saying the same thing just in different ways.
 
You are missing the point. There is an additional reservoir of heat when running from the basement. Additional to the area of the home where comfort is needed (LR floor), and additional to the mass of the stove (which is irrelevantly small here). This additional reservoir, that is located in series between the stove and the zone of the home that is aimed to be comfortable provides heat to that zone long after the stove is dead - while the main floor is already cooling down, there is still heat input from this reservoir. It's not about how much flame one needs that I'm talking about - that has to do with the heat loss rate. It is how long the reservoir can provide heat to the main floor when the flame is already dead. (And hence that a mass-ive stove is not needed when running from the basement.)
I am doing precisely this. Getting enough heat up the stairs hours after the stove has died.

And an insulated home is not a heat sink. In fact, the opposite; insulation is an incredibly poor heat sink. And that is how we like it: it does not take a lot of heat to warm up. A solid rock or brick home takes a long time to heat up, because it's a large heat sink. An insulated home does not take a long time to heat up.
 
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I absolutely did not miss your point. Trust me! I fully understand, but there’s only so much heat can go into the basement before it starts to take the temperature too high on the main floor above or the reservoir itself gets too hot for for someone’s liking. Heat has to rise and cold air has to fall. Call it rising or being pushed, pulled, whatever, the point is heat goes up. If too much goes up you have to turn the stove down even in the basement. Can the stove go completely out and warm air from the reservoir still heat the above home before relighting the stove? Absofreakinglutely! Only so much heat in the basement acts as a reservoir. Same with a stove. Less mass weight less less in the bank. More mass weight, more in the bank. There is a balance with either that is reached.

My home is poorly insulated by today’s standards.

If I only use my gas furnace the room temp is fine, but floors and walls are cold and the furnace runs constantly. Shut the furnace off and use the stove and the radiant heat warms everything in the room including walls and floors. Yes heat is escaping because it’s not well insulated by todays standards. The room temperature is the same because my stove thermostat can hold it there. The floors and walls are much warmer by 25 degrees because my infrared gun says is. I feel warmer because the entire envelope is warmer, not just the air. Heated mass holds some heat. How much is determined by the materials and the insulation, even in my poorly insulated house at the same temperature.

For further proof fuel for fuel, the radiant heat from my stove is cheaper than oil heat from my furnace by $2000 dollars each season. Don’t tell me radiant heat going into stove mass as well as home mass doesn’t work. If it didn’t I’d still be burning oil at nearly $6 a gallon. The insulation factor of my home didn’t change. Obviously, an insulated basement reservoir stores more heat than a massive stove.

If I warm those walls and floors and objects in the room, then if I immediately shut down my stove, isn’t it going to remain warmer for a longer period of time even though such time in my poorly insulated home will still be brief? It will. Try that with an oil furnace in a poorly insulated home and you’ll feel the cold quick. So yes, warm walls and floors are an insulating factor holding the temp. So what if I said it is radiating heat back into the room. In a way, it is.

Is there a reservoir in your insulated basement. Yes, to a point. There is a reservoir as well to a heavy massive stove compared to a light mass stove but to a far lesser degree than when trying to compare said stove mass to basement mass. Hardly apples to apples. Hard to compare the basement reservoir to that of a stove, right? I would think so. By the way, I never said you couldn’t use a lighter mass stove to use the basement reservoir. What I said was specifically comparing the mass reservoir of stoves…lighter versus heavier…stoves.

You stated that a heavy stove isn’t needed in an insulated basement reservoir. Show me where I disagreed with that, please.

What I said indirectly was only comparing light versus heavy OR that the heavy mass stove “complimented” the reservoir.

I also said that if the addition of a heavy mass stove was put into the insulated basement reservoir it may call for less stove temperature to keep the basement reservoir temperature the same. Disagree?

Again, I think we’re agreeing more than disagreeing but saying things differently.

Anyway, carry on. I’ve stated my opinions, observations, and my peace.
 
A home itself without a basement (and better with if it’s insulated as you said) serves the same function in a way by absorbing radiant heat. Everything in it is a heat sink, just like the basement walls, just like a heavy mass stove, just like a heavy mass skillet or a heat exchanger in a stove.

Even with the basement no reason to give up the momentum of a heavy mass stove because it will serve just as the iron skillet does…once everything in the stove, everything in the room including the basement walls is heated, then the stove can use less flame to maintain the heat…just like using a smaller flame to maintain a given temperature of the heavier mass skillet. It’s the softening effect. Same principle. Saying the same thing just in different ways.
What you are saying is absolutely correct. But at the masses we are talking about it just doesn't make that much difference. Yeah you might gain 30 mins or so of heat output at the end of the burn. But I don't see that as much of a determining factor in stove choice. I am not disagreeing with you about the concept at all. Just the ammount of effect it has on heat output time