Is the Jotul F100 worth it for my small fireplace but large house?

[KennyK]

Hello Hearth Friends,

I spent a lot of time on this site about a year ago trying to figure out how to get a decent stove or insert into my very small fireplace with close mantel. After much helpful advice, two people coming out to my house to check out the fireplace, debating if I should remove my 1890s mantel, etc. I finally threw in the towel and accepted that I wasn't going to be able to get any sort of stove or insert into my fireplace that would heat my close to 2000 square foot house (not even the smallest inserts would meet my clearances or shallow depth).

I was almost resined to just lining my chimney (it's currently unlined) and using the fireplace for regular fires which will look nice and give me little to no heat. As we are now in the dead of winter and our first floor is the coldest part of our house, I'm considering a new option. With a mantel shield and double walled pipe, I can probably just fit a Jotul f100. I know this won't come close to heating my whole house or giving overnight burns, but I'm wondering if it would be make sense to heat the first floor of my house, cut back on the use of the furnace (we have natural gas), and allow us to just be warmer on the first floor (where we're often at about 67 degrees). Our first floor is about 750 square feet, second floor is about the same and the third floor is about 500 square feet. We have a partially open floor plan. I was thinking that I could close the heat registers on the first floor when using the stove, but I'm concerned that with the heat from the f100 dissipating throughout the house and not making much of a difference.

I'd love some thoughts from all the insightful and knowledgable people here. As a side note, it will cost about $3000 to line my chimney for open fires, and probably less for a good used f100 with insulated liner installed.

Thanks!
Kenny

 

[lumbering on]

We have 4 floors of poorly insulated 100 year old house. So we are stuck with the oil boiler regardless...

But our family spends most of the evening in the living room and just by burning the stove at night, I can get the living room 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the first floor without having to turn the heat up. So its 75 in the living room, 65 in the rest of first floor, and 55 on the other floors. That's taking a big dent out of a previously 400 to 500 dollar a month oil bill.

We have a freestanding stove sitting in our old fireplace. Chimney was in need of a lot of repair (house was vacant for several years) so we just put in a full liner.

Best decision I've made in this house. I would absolutely chose the stove over the open fireplace.

 

[Billybonfire]

Hi Kenny,
thought I would comment as we have a small stove similar to the F100.
I know our weather on this side of the pond is generally much milder than many areas of the US but we have occasional cold spells, once saw -20c Dec 2010 !.
Anyway our small stove sits in an old open fireplace with block off plate and SS liner and heats the 300 sf living room very well, we often leave the doors to the adjoining kitchen and hallway open and the heat also helps heat those areas too, infact we only use the gas to heat the bedroom areas.
I wouldnt definately put the F100 in and I think you will be surprised how much it will help with your gas bills.
Get your wood supply and storage for seasoning sorted and sure you wont regret it.

Hope this helps.

Billy.

 

[begreen]

The F100 is a capable small heater. It should warm the stove room nicely. But it will be pushed hard to warm the entire floor when it gets into the teens or below. As long as the expectations are realistic it should be a satisfying addition.

 

[DenverDan]

Don't give up on the stove idea yet. (we have an f100 in a fireplace and we love it.) We were in a similar situation about a year ago (I remember reading your posts on this issue). We have a 1100 sf, 1 story, 1926 bungalow with a small fireplace (26" x 29" opening) in a 20' x 11' living room. I searched for an insert or wood stove that would fit into the fireplace (there really isn't room for it to be in front) and that would not require any alteration to the hearth. It came down to the f100. Fortunately for us we met the trim and mantel clearances. We've been using it for four months and love it. I'll add my thoughts and experience:

Fireplace install: You will be told that installing the stove in the fireplace will just end up heating up the brick. It's true. But the secret to getting as much heat out is to tuck a 20" 'squirrel cage' fan (about $100 on ebay, wired and ready to go) under the stove near the back and install a block off plate above. The fan blows cold air from under the stove up the back between the stove and the back wall/brick of the fireplace and then over the top and out. It's wonderful. (It works much like an insert). Also, with an 'in the fireplace' install, during the off season the stove isn't in the way.

Fireplace clearances: From your March 2012 post with the photo of your fireplace with measurements and the clearances listed in the f100 manual, it looks like you would need 'protection' on the side and top trim but not the mantel. Northlineexpress.com sells a mantel shield but it's too wide for what you need. A strip of sheet metal that is attached with 1 inch spacers to the inside edge of the trim and extends out say 2 inches and then has a bend outward (or upward) for another inch should be enough. It could be painted to blend with the wood. With an 'in' the fireplace install it shouldn't get very hot so I don't think it needs to be high temp paint. (I just went over to our f100 and the brick immediately above the stove is, at best, warm). Finally, your hearth looks deep enough (the Jotul manual says 16" from the glass/opening (not the ash tray/lip) to the edge of the hearth). More recently the code may have been increased to 18" but in either case I think you are ok. (you may want to make a cardboard foot print and place it in the fireplace to check measurements)

Venting/chimney: Our f100 is placed into the fireplace until the back two corners of the stove just about touch the brick. This leaves a small gap in the back due to the taper of the fireplace opening. (from your measurements yours would be similar) We used the top vent and went straight up. Since there wasn't much room above the stove (approx 6") we just hooked the flexible inner to the flue collar (it looks ok, but I may still paint it black with stove paint). You will have more visible at the top so you may want to use a length of stove pipe and then transition to the liner at or above the block off plate.

The F100:

The good: The f100 is very well made. The fit and finish are excellent. The glass/ceramic is big for its size with a great view of the fire. It also looks good in the fireplace in the off season. The stove is easy to control. (there is a learning curve but not bad) But because they are so well made and well loved it may be difficult to find one used. We were very lucky to find one 'new' on Craigslist (someone bought it then decided they needed something bigger) but otherwise I haven't seen any used ones around here.

The limitations: The firebox is small. (1.1 cu. ft.) The burns are not long. (a couple of hours) (I like to putter with the stove anyway so it's not a big deal) Also, I only have seasoned pine so I really haven't been able to see what it can do with hardwoods. It will not heat an entire house (remember that wood stoves are really space heaters) but just like 'lumbering on' mentioned in an earlier post, we spend most time in our living room/attached dining room and kitchen and the f100 with the fan keeps us toasty (69-72 degrees). My son's room in the far corner of the house is cool but he likes it that way. We still use the gas furnace but not nearly as much. (sometimes we kick the furnace on briefly just to even things out) Finally, with the standard legs, the f100 is somewhat low to the floor. They do sell a long leg kit that raises the stove another 2 inches.

Let me know if you have other questions.

 

[DianeB]

Fireplace install: You will be told that installing the stove in the fireplace will just end up heating up the brick. It's true. But the secret to getting as much heat out is to tuck a 20" 'squirrel cage' fan (about $100 on ebay, wired and ready to go) under the stove near the back and install a block off plate above. The fan blows cold air from under the stove up the back between the stove and the back wall/brick of the fireplace and then over the top and out. It's wonderful. (It works much like an insert). Also, with an 'in the fireplace' install, during the off season the stove isn't in the way.

http://www.amazon.com/Active-Air-Blower-System-465/dp/B004K65JZG/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt
Is this the kind of fan you mentioned? We have a stove in front of fireplace and when it gets down to the single digits, I do notice more that we are heating the exterior chimney. Was thinking of this kind of blower fan or perhaps pick up the rear heat shield for the Castine. Thought perhaps the heat shield would force more hot air to come up to the top of the stove via the space between the rear of the stove and the heat shield

 

[Oldhippie]

As that's such a considerable amount of money is there any way you could forget using the existing chimney and install a new chimney,ideally right up through the interior, or out an outside wall and up? If you could do this, then you could put in a stove that could heat that whole house and have an investment that would truly pay for itself AND keep your whole warmer while at it!

There are also numerous government "Green" programs where some/all of it is tax deductible, to help defray some costs.

I know that may seem like a bigger project, and it is, but if you get creative you could probably find a strategic location that would allow a straight up double-wall chimney that everyone would gladly give up the space for once they get the first warm winter morning on the upper floors. \

Just another of my crazy wildeyed ideas.

 

[lumbering on]

+1 on the block off plate.

Not doing one was a big mistake.

 

[lumbering on]

Denver Dan,

I'm very interested in the fan option. Do you have a pic or brand you could offer?

 

[DenverDan]

For lumbering on and DianeB,

I assembled mine out of the individual components (fan, temperature switch and cord) but this is essentially what I have (and what I was going to buy until I decided to assemble one):

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Fir...Replacement/dp/B00997ALHC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_9

The Amazon price is $99.99 from 'Tjfans'. But if you look around ebay you can find this same unit (same photo) on auction by 'saveonhvac' with a starting bid of $49 (if you want to try your luck with that (not my thing)). It all seems to ship from a big fan/hvac dealer named 'Tjernlund' out of MN. If you go to the Tjernlund site I think that they sell it there for $129. Go figure. (It's all marketing.)

It has a low profile (3.75 in tall) and should fit under most stoves. Check how hot it gets under the stove since some parts on the motor are plastic. The Jotul f100 that I have has bottom and back heat shields so it never gets hot underneath. The fan is oriented so that if it is tucked a the back edge of the stove, it takes air in from below and directs it up the back. The air then hits the block off plate and comes out the fireplace opening on top of the stove. The fan unit is not very pretty and has unprotected moving parts so I'd use it only in a protected/not easily accessible location. (A future project for me is to add a curved deflector to the back edge of the block off plate to help the warmed air make the turn from the back of the stove to the top and out (but it works fine now)).

Also I'd recommend a fan switch and speed controller. I use:

(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plug-In-Speed-Controller-Inline-Fan-Duct-Blower-Rheostat-Control-Hydroponic-SCP-/280891482130?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D5824403663345155207%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D280891482130%26)

(some web address!) It's made by an electronics outfit from FL but marketed through many dealers. Amazon also has it. This unit allows you to turn off the fan when you don't want it or to adjust the sound level (all fans make some noise). Also, you want to be able to adjust the fan speed since the fan cools the stove and can affect the burn (run on high only when the stove is cruising. At other times, adjust the speed for the stove temp. Running the fan too high can cool it enough to make it burn less efficiently.

Finally, about the temperature switch. You have to hunt around to find a spot that will work for you. (an infrared non-contact thermometer helps) I attach mine with magnets. If it's too much of a hassle just remove the switch/by pass it with a jumper (it's attached with little plug in wires). As always, be careful with electrical equipment, unplug before messing with anything electrical and, if needed, get someone who's comfortable/qualified to make any changes.

 

[lumbering on]

Thanks denverdan, I will give it some serious thought.

 

[pen]

To the OP, just remember that if you used that fireplace it wouldn't add squat in terms of heat to the house as you stated.

Even if that f100 is undersized, so long as you don't try and run the hell out of it in an effort to do what it can't, and keep in mind that every btu it gives off is one that the furnace doesn't have to, you'll end up paying off the investment with oil saved and enjoying that area more than ever in the process.

I vote to go for it.

pen

 

[lumbering on]

Yes, OP, sorry for the slight thread hijack.

I reiterate my vote to go for it.

 

[KennyK]

Well, friends, it's been about a year and a half since I put up this thread, and almost three since I first started looking for a wood stove and joined this site. After struggling with a very small fire place with a low wooden mantel that made most stove clearances impossible to work with, I almost threw in the towel and lined my beautiful 100-plus year old fireplace chimney to use as a open fireplace for ambiance. Well, all of that changed this past Saturday night, when once again checking out craigslist I saw a beautiful looking Jotul F100 (Nordic) for $150. Sunday afternoon, I took a lovely one and a half hour drive from Boston to northeastern MA and bought the Jotul F100, which the owners had used for three seasons and took very good care of. Good thing I brought a friend, because that little sucker's heavy! Got it home and placed it in front of my fireplace, and it looks like it was meant to be! This pic doesn't do it justice, but the back of my fireplace box has a metal (perhaps cast iron) lining all the way around with a print that matches the Jotul perfectly! My next steps are to get a liner and get it installed. I think I'll still have to do a few heat shields to comply with clearances as well. I'm going to keep looking on craigslist for a liner as I see them come up once in a while (my chimney goes up 3 stories, so I believe I need about 35 feet) and then have it installed via the rear flue on the Jotul. Money's a little tight right now, so I'm not in a rush - may or may not happen this season, but I think this is it and pretty soon I'll be posting picks of this stove up and running!

.

 

[branchburner]

$150 for a 3-yr old Jotul? Man, I love craigslist!

Nice score... looks great in that hearth. Congrats.

 

[BrotherBart]

You are going to love the view of the fire from the F100.

 

[Woody Stover]

Wow, that looks great!

Money's a little tight right now, so I'm not in a rush - may or may not happen this season, but I think this is it and pretty soon I'll be posting picks of this stove up and running!

I would spend the money, even if you have to buy new, and save it back on your heat bill and be warmer in the bargain. You got plenty of dry wood, right?

You are going to love the view of the fire from the F100.

That's not very safe; View the fire from the couch instead.

 

[Jags]

When it is slid into its final resting place, will you meet the frontal (floor) clearances needed? Without reviewing the manual, I think 18" is what that stove needs.

That stove looks like it was born to be there. Very, Very nice.

 

[KennyK]

When it is slid into its final resting place, will you meet the frontal (floor) clearances needed? Without reviewing the manual, I think 18" is what that stove needs.

That stove looks like it was born to be there. Very, Very nice.

Yes, it does need 18" inches to meet the frontal clearances, which I don't have, but I figure I can put a hearth pad in front of the marble flooring where it sits. Depending on the final resting place for the stove, I should only need a 16" or so Hearth pad.

 

[lumbering on]

Yes that does look perfect there.