Is there as stove that is EPA Approved for both Wood and Coal?

[21fred]

I think I've decided to go with a wood / coal stove, as opposed to a corn or pellet.

I'm thinking that I can pick up some wood from my small woods and when I deplete that supply I can go with coal.

(I don't want to make a part time job of wood cutting and splitting because my job keeps me too busy as it is).

I decided not to go w/ pellet / corn because if we get a power outage, I can use the wood / coal without power. I don't have a generator,etc.

Also, I don't plan to use this for all of my heat, just supplemental.

I have found a stove the can burn wood or coal but it is only EPA approved for coal. I'd like to find one that is approved for both.

I'd like to get the most out of my fuel investment and I'd like to pollute as little as possible.

Thanks for your advise.

Rick

 

[Shane]

It was always my understanding that coal was epa exempt? I know that Hitzer for instance sells their stoves in both Canada and US and in the manual it's approved for coal only in the US but in Canada it's considered a wood coal heater. Also alot of the guys that were in the stove business in the 80's talk about the wood/coal stoves and how the designs had to compromise between the two burn characteristics of both fuels.

 

[21fred]

AHhh

sounds like I may have to decide one fuel or the other in order to get the best burn.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Corie]

Actually, there was one.

THe Harman CW30 "E" was the only stove certified by the EPA that burnt both wood and coal.


Also, the stove I designed and built is designed for both and burns both fuels excellently.

 

[wg_bent]

The Harman TLC-2000 is listed as a wood/coal stove. The Morso 2ub also is listed to burn either, and the Morso 1410 is available as a wood or coal stove, but as I understand the wood version can be converted with a kit.

 

[wg_bent]

Actually, there was one.

THe Harman CW30 "E" was the only stove certified by the EPA that burnt both wood and coal.


Also, the stove I designed and built is designed for both and burns both fuels excellently.

Not looking to bust your chops Corie...but yours is not EPA certified. Next question: How much you want for that?

 

[Corie]

Haha, you're absolutely right Warren.


As far as I know, the Harman "E" was the only stove ever certified a clean burner of wood by the EPA, that could also burn coal. I have the patent application for the design here and the stove was a few years ahead of its time, imo.

Its a shame there wasn't more interest in that type of stove at that point.

 

[Corie]

The website is quite confusing coaster.


In the description of the stove it says:

It is a radiant stove and is equipped with a riddling grate, ash tray and ashpan, and, in addition to wood and briquettes, can be fired with coal and petroleum (pet) coke.

But then under the fuel section, it only lists:

Fuel

• Wood

If you look in the manual for the 2B, there are no instructions for burning coal. Also, the grate system of the stove only covers the front of a pretty tiny firebox.

 

[coalkirk]

You may find stoves rated to burn wood and coal but they won't do either well. My advice, buy one desingned to burn coal. It's far superior to burning wood, unless you get wood for free.

 

[megan]

This is an older thread, but very informative, thank you. I discovered that although I CAN get parts for my beloved Coalbrookdale Much Wenlock (some in the US and a boiler in the UK), the cost of parts and shipping are about the same as a new stove.

The Much Wenlock isn't much for wood burning, although if you have small enough logs, it's okay, although we pretty much use coal. BUT, i wanted the option of burning wood once in a while or in case we were out of coal.

Anyhow, someone recommended the Mark models since we burn chiefly coal. From what I read of the Mark's manual, these are non-electrical dependant, correct?

I see blthomas mentioned that the TLC-2000 is non-electrical dependant, and that is a criterion for me.

The Mark 1 would nearly heat our whole house (house is 1600 sq ft, and Mark 1 is good for 1400 sq ft), although Mark 2 would be good plus (good for 1900 sq ft).

Originally, we got the Coalbrookdale used from someone and wanted it so that we'd have at least one room warm and keep the pipes from bursting in the rest of the house if we had a power outage during the winter. We found that it keeps the downstairs very toasty, upstairs not as toasty (we didn't install any vents), but comfy for sleeping. We didn't have a blower on it, it just threw off heat.

Would the Mark stove work the same way? thanks for whatever elucidation you can provide.

megan

 

[wg_bent]

This is an older thread, but very informative, thank you. I discovered that although I CAN get parts for my beloved Coalbrookdale Much Wenlock (some in the US and a boiler in the UK), the cost of parts and shipping are about the same as a new stove.

The Much Wenlock isn't much for wood burning, although if you have small enough logs, it's okay, although we pretty much use coal. BUT, i wanted the option of burning wood once in a while or in case we were out of coal.

Anyhow, someone recommended the Mark models since we burn chiefly coal. From what I read of the Mark's manual, these are non-electrical dependant, correct?

I see blthomas mentioned that the TLC-2000 is non-electrical dependant, and that is a criterion for me.

The Mark 1 would nearly heat our whole house (house is 1600 sq ft, and Mark 1 is good for 1400 sq ft), although Mark 2 would be good plus (good for 1900 sq ft).

Originally, we got the Coalbrookdale used from someone and wanted it so that we'd have at least one room warm and keep the pipes from bursting in the rest of the house if we had a power outage during the winter. We found that it keeps the downstairs very toasty, upstairs not as toasty (we didn't install any vents), but comfy for sleeping. We didn't have a blower on it, it just threw off heat.

Would the Mark stove work the same way? thanks for whatever elucidation you can provide.

Megan,


megan

you should look to a larger stove (Mark II) than you might think. in this case... size does matter and bigger is better.

 

[megan]

Thanks, Warren. We ended up going on a search yesterday to look at coal stoves. Found
a Hitzer we really like, so we'll be looking to put that in in a few weeks.

I found out that the Mark models have blowers and that they aren't optional. I wanted a
non-electric option, and the Hitzer looks like it will fill the bill nicely.

megan

 

[Corie]

The hitzer has an optional blower too ya know.

Just because there's a blower on the stove, doesn't mean you have to run it all the time.

Out of curiosity, which Hitzer did you choose?

 

[megan]

Corie,
Yeah, i know the hitzer has a blower, but it's optional, as you say, and we didn't want one.

We're going with the 30-95 model.

Here's the link for those who'd like to have gander

(broken link removed to http://www.hitzer.com/model30-95.html)

Our house is just a tad over 1600 sq ft, so this should fit the bill nicely. We're going to get one of those heat controlled fans and sit it on top.

We've been discussing replacing the carpet in our home, and we need to do some painting. Since we have to swap out the stove, this'd be a good time to pull up the carpeting in that room, repaint the walls, and put down a wood floor. I don't want to be sucked into that Total Redo vortex, but it doesn't make sense not to do it now, since we have to replace the stove.

I'm looking forward to feeding the hopper! The one we have now, we have to front load. It will be handy to put in 30 lbs of coal once the fire is going and let 'er go.

Just hope the cats don't jump up on the stove and play with the fan. So far, none of them have gotten near our stove when it's got a fire in it. Lay by it, yes, and they all have their spots. Somehow, they seem to know they'd hurt themselves if they jumped on it when it's got a fire inside. But, our youngest one thinks everything has toy potential, and my concern is that the fan blades whirling around will prove too great a temptation to ignore. She's pretty smart, though, so if she gives into temptation once and gets burnt paws, she'll know to stay away. Still, that wouldn't be my first choice for her to take, but i've been known to reach for shiny objects despite obvious pain.

To get back on-topic, we saw a model 30-95 in action on Saturday in a space a little larger than our downstairs, where the stove would be. Nice fire, and the heat-controlled fan helped to circulate the air. Our downstairs is pretty open, so that should work well.

This is going to sound silly, but we've never had a new stove. Do I need to season the grate? I didn't think to ask that when we were looking.

Oh, and we saw a Vermont Castings model at another place, although i don't know what the model number was. It was too large for our space, but i thought the mitten warmers a nice touch.

I really appreciate everyone sharing so much knowledge about stoves. There are very few people near us who use one at all, let alone a coal stove, so scary as it might be, we're the experts! >:-0

megan

The hitzer has an optional blower too ya know.

Just because there's a blower on the stove, doesn't mean you have to run it all the time.

Out of curiosity, which Hitzer did you choose?

 

[[email protected]]

Megan,

I am wondering what parts you need for the much wenlock? They are pretty robust units. I have one and I cant imagine what could go bad other than the grates getting deformed. I don't use the riddling lever anyway, I scratch from bellow the fire with a hook.

 

[megan]

We needed to replace some of the firebars since we burned through several of those. Those i could get replaced with no problem at woodmanspartsplus. I don't work for them, but if their products are as excellent as their customer service, wowie zowie.

Anyhow, the part we needed that they don't have is the liner or boiler as it's called in the parts list. I did an internet search and called locally to find what the customer service rep at woodmanspartsplus had said. They have every part available in the US, and if they don't have it, no one does. :0(

I looked for a boiler replacement at a UK site (www.stovestore.com) and I found one for £819. If i do the exchange rate at an optimistic $1.50 USD=£1, then we're looking at $1200 just for the part, and that doesn't include shipping or if i'd have to pay the VAT, which runs close to 20%.

I came to these boards to see if anyone could help me with a replacement, although i searched more than just flat out asked. There was an older thread where someone mentioned about getting rid of his Much Wenlock in favour of a newer stove, and i enquired what he did with the old one. Got no reply, so DH and i went out looking for a new stove.

We still have the Much Wenlock in place, and yes, if someone said he had a boiler i could have, i'd be more than happy to have this one fixed.

I hate to blame the boiler's demise on my husband, but i do have to say that he wanted to be the chief firemaker, and we ran very, VERY hot fires the first two years. I suggested damping it down a bit, but he suffered from a case of spousal deafness. (I get this from time to time, too ;0)

My DH struck up a conversation with an older man who said he used to have a coal stove, and he suggested that DH adjust the damper a bit. Did the trick, all right.

Our sweep did note on last inspection that the boiler was starting to wear, and he patched it. He did say then that most likely we'd have to replace the entire boiler within a year or two. Man knows his stuff as here we are.

Everything else is tip-top about it, and i really love this little stove. Small, but mighty!

We bought it used in 1999, and the original owner used it as her only heat source for at least 10-12 years prior to our buying it from her. Before that, she used it along with her oil furnace but it was a more part-time basis.

Ours was built 8/82, so i don't find it surprising that some of it's worn a bit. The guy who accompanied my chimney sweep was much more used to woodstoves, and he couldn't believe that some of the firebars were in two pieces or that the boiler was as torn up. It looks like a molded cement liner that someone took a sledge hammer to and parts have chunked off.

I can send you the riddling lever if you'd like to have one. Heck, i'd be happy to give you the stove if you think you can use it for parts.

I guess this question could be its own topic, but does anyone know what to do with a need-parts-one-can't-easily obtain coalstove?

megan

edited to add: Oh, YOU were the one with the Much Wenlock! LOL You said you were gradually changing over from coal to wood.

Megan,

I am wondering what parts you need for the much wenlock? They are pretty robust units. I have one and I cant imagine what could go bad other than the grates getting deformed. I don't use the riddling lever anyway, I scratch from bellow the fire with a hook.

 

[[email protected]]

The liner is just firebrick. Why don't you take a few pictures and post them. If it is just the firebrick, you can get generic firebrick at most brick supply firms.

I had another coal stove relined by a guy here in RI
(broken link removed)
He used something called Plastic Rrefractory it was like a large block of clay which he cut and pounded in place.
The stuff hardens up like rock and is often used inside massive boilers.

I think I paid $50 to have my stove done. I did the disassembly and brought only the part that needed the brick lining.

If you have any glass blowers in your area they might be able to help you.
A lot of those guys build there own ovens for glass melting.
No way you should pay all that $$ to get fire brick from England.

 

[megan]

Thanks so much for the suggestion! I do know a glassblower who's about five minutes from me; i can ask him.

And i know i'm a Luddite, i don't have a digital camera. If i do get access to one, though, i'll take pics.

megan

The liner is just firebrick. Why don't you take a few pictures and post them. If it is just the firebrick, you can get generic firebrick at most brick supply firms.

I had another coal stove relined by a guy here in RI
(broken link removed)
He used something called Plastic Rrefractory it was like a large block of clay which he cut and pounded in place.
The stuff hardens up like rock and is often used inside massive boilers.

I think I paid $50 to have my stove done. I did the disassembly and brought only the part that needed the brick lining.

If you have any glass blowers in your area they might be able to help you.
A lot of those guys build there own ovens for glass melting.
No way you should pay all that $$ to get fire brick from England.

 

[Gooserider]

If the liner is basically firebrick or other simple refractory material, I'd agree that you shouldn't bother with getting it from England.

However as a "for what it's worth dept." my understanding is that you do NOT have to pay the British VAT tax on stuff shipped out of the country... Even if you are there as a tourist, there are forms you can file to get a refund on the VAT for purchases you make there, if you spent enough and take the stuff with you.

Gooserider

 

[megan]

Gooserider,
I figured we wouldn't have to pay the VAT, but since i wasn't 100% sure if that changed from the last time i got stuff in the UK, and since it's nearly 20%, figured it safer to include it when figuring the budget.

I know you can get the VAT back, although the UK works differently from Ireland. When we went to Ireland in 2000, our guide told us to save all our receipts, get to the airport on the day of departure a tad early and fill out the forms to get the VAT refunded.

So, when we visited friends in England in 2003, i figured no problem, save my receipts, and i'll be good to go. Uh, nope. In the UK, you have to fill out the forms BEFORE you start your spending. I didn't believe it, what @(#$*(# difference does it make when i fill out the bloody form, if i can show i'm foreign and not living there?? I was bummed because we spent more on gee-gaws on our UK trip than we did our Ireland trip. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I did check into it again after we got back, and was told the same thing--in the UK, you need to file the forms first. I guess they want to check to see that your spending started on the day you entered the country, ended the day you left the country, and not before or after.

Returning to the stove, though, my guess is my Much Wenlock, made in 1982 is before EPA mandates? Would i be correct in assuming that a coal stove made today (such as the aforementioned Hitzer 30-95) might burn more efficiently? I'm going to search some older threads here and see what's been said, as i'm still a noob and hate to ask something that's been asked 1000 times.

megan

If the liner is basically firebrick or other simple refractory material, I'd agree that you shouldn't bother with getting it from England.

However as a "for what it's worth dept." my understanding is that you do NOT have to pay the British VAT tax on stuff shipped out of the country... Even if you are there as a tourist, there are forms you can file to get a refund on the VAT for purchases you make there, if you spent enough and take the stuff with you.

Gooserider

 

[berlin]

the coal stoves arn't going to burn any more efficiently today than they did years ago. btw, some of the most efficient anthricite stoker furnace/stove designes are well over 50 years old.

 

[Gooserider]

Gooserider,
<snip>
Returning to the stove, though, my guess is my Much Wenlock, made in 1982 is before EPA mandates? Would i be correct in assuming that a coal stove made today (such as the aforementioned Hitzer 30-95) might burn more efficiently? I'm going to search some older threads here and see what's been said, as i'm still a noob and hate to ask something that's been asked 1000 times.

megan

If the liner is basically firebrick or other simple refractory material, I'd agree that you shouldn't bother with getting it from England.

However as a "for what it's worth dept." my understanding is that you do NOT have to pay the British VAT tax on stuff shipped out of the country... Even if you are there as a tourist, there are forms you can file to get a refund on the VAT for purchases you make there, if you spent enough and take the stuff with you.

Gooserider

AFAIK, coal stoves aren't really covered by the current EPA regs, so there isn't a big difference in regards to coal performance. As mentioned earlier, there aren't many dual fuel stoves that are officially certified for both fuels. Instead you have certified coal stoves that say (we also burn wood) or certified wood stoves that say (we can also burn coal) where the second fuel is not "officially" supposed to be recognized as useable... As has been discussed elsewhere, the combustion requirements of the two fuels are different enough that you basically have to compromise the efficiency of one fuel if you optimize for the other.

As such you should probably look for the best design on your primary fuel, coal in your case, and not worry overmuch about the other. Unless the MW can't burn wood, I'd see it as much less of an improvment to go to a modern stove, as there haven't been as many changes in coal stove design recently.

Gooserider

 

[[email protected]]

Have you looked at the Vermont Casings Vigilant II?
It has more of the traditional look you might be used to.

I regularly burn wood in an EFEL Coal stove. The biggest problem is trying to keep the glass clean.
I can get a pretty good fire going with little smoke out of the chimney.

 

[Corie]

I think the Vigilant is the classiest looking coal stove on the market. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[wg_bent]

Funny thing about the Vigilant is that while physically large, it's not the beast of a heater you might think. Falls about the range of a Harman mark II

It sure is a nice looking stove though. My objection to most coal stoves is the basic box look most have. I kinda like the look of the little Morso 1410, but I notice the Morso site no longer mentions a coal burner in North America. The Esse's look nice too.