Issues building fire on the first try

[joejkd]

New to wood heat, just started mid-October with it. I'm running a Jotul F3 vented on the top, and, as the title says, I'm having trouble getting a roaring fire going on the first shot. I usually have to sit around and play around with the kindling fire for about an hr. before I can walk away. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

The wood I'm using is oak/maple that's about 1.5 yrs seasoned. I don't have any draft issues, I can hear the air rushing when the kindling lights. I suspect my problem is with my arrangement of wood.

I've read many articles and watched many videos on youtube, but it seems like my stove is too small to use any of these suggestions. I've tried bottom-up which I seem to have the most success with since it lends itself to micro-management, top-down and in between.

I'd really like to get good at top-down, but the issue I'm having is the vertical space in the firebox just doesn't seem to be enough to set up the amount of wood I'd need. I put 2 standard pieces (about 4" cross section) on the bottom, 2 on top of that (about 2-3" cross section) and the lots of small fine pine kindling, with a couple tied up newspapers on top of that.

I light the newspaper, and the pine catches no problem every time. However, the logs underneath the fine kindling never seem to catch. They char where they are in contact but do not combust. I use quite a bit of kinding also, just about as much as I can stuff in the tiny area that's left on the top. It doesn't seem to work.

Should I be using much smaller splits? I cut my logs to 14" and split to 3-4". Perhaps this is too big for this particular stove? I'm not sure how else to do it, it just seems so darn finicky.

I also have a related issue when reloading. I can't fit much in there, so I usually put in 2 logs at a time on a hot bed of coals. The wood burns very slowly with small flames at the ends, but does not "erupt" like you'd need it to in order to maintain 500 degree stove top temps. Temps usually hover around 300 degrees.

Sometimes, though, I'll drop a piece in and bam, the sucker goes up like gasoline.

I'm sure all these issues have to do with where I'm putting the pieces, since sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and I'm using the same wood. I've noticed even with good winds it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference.

I know I'm putting alot of info here, but I'm trying to be as comprehensive as I can. Any help with this stove would be appreciated.

 

[REM505]

Sounds like either your kindling is too wet or you pine needle/newspaper set up is not enough material to catch the kindling of that size. Although I have tried rolling up newspaper I find, for myself, that just crumpling it into balls up works fine. Also you can try some kiln dried wood they sell at stores and see how that works.

 

[joejkd]

Thanks Jack, but the issue is not with the kindling. The kindling catches right on, quite vigorously. It is the actual cordwood that will not catch consistently.

 

[jimbom]

What is the moisture content of the oak? I read that moisture above 25% is more difficult to start and burn.

If you don't have a meter, you can crosscut a 1/2" thick cookie out of the center of a representative split and weigh it immediately. Pop it in the oven at 210 °F and check the weight every few hours. When the weight no longer changes, you have the oven dry weight of the cookie. The amount of weight driven off divided by the oven dry weight gives the moisture content of that cookie. The entire split will be different. If you want more accuracy, you have to cut more cookies. Not hard at all, since the oven will be on in any case.

You can buy a meter at Harbor Freight for about $15 that is +/- 3%. Other meters are available at the big boxes or other stores. I have one and my son has the other. Results for both seem to be the same. I would not be building furniture with these meters, but it is firewood for goodness sakes.

 

[begreen]

If this is with the air control wide open, it sounds like the wood is not fully seasoned. Take some of your splits and resplit them. Then press the freshly exposed surface to your cheek. Does it feel cool and damp? If so, the wood is not dry. One thing you might try is adding a couple of 2x4 scraps and see if that helps get the cordwood going. If it does, pay attention to the end of the cordwood splits. Listen for hissing and look for bubbling on the ends.

 

[ddddddden]

My guess is that some pieces of your wood (probably maple) are drier than others (probably oak), hence the occasional BAM. E-mail Thomas for a free sample of SuperCedar starters. . .or just go ahead and order some @ 15% off, if the "hearth" discount code still works. . .might expire today at the end of Oct. Get some. You will like them.

 

[joejkd]

Hmmmmmm.....I do have a moisture meter and have been checking each piece before I put it in for less than 20% moisture, and each piece has checked out ok.

That being said, I do hear hissing when I put the wood in. Maybe the morning dews (I have my draw wood pile on a screened in porch) are making the pieces damp? I'm not sure if that's it though, because I have a stack inside that sits near the woodstove for additional drying.

Also, sometimes during a burn, if I notice the piece burning slowly, I'll open the door, take the poker and move the wood to an angle so it's somewhat off the floor, and this sometimes causes the piece to catch suddenly. If I hadn't done it, the piece would have likely had the same slow burn.

Also, the draft is indeed fully open.

 

[begreen]

Did you try the moisture meter on a resplit, freshly exposed face of the split? I will bet it reads higher there. You have had a wet summer, when was this wood split?

Go to the store and pick up a bundle of dry wood and see how that works. Once the cordwood is fully aflame you want to close the air down in increments and you should notice a nice light show as the secondary combustion kicks in. The stove will also get hotter when this happens. With dry wood you should be able to keep reducing the air in say 50% increments every 5-10 minutes, letting the flames get lazy, but not out, until the air is either mostly or all the way closed. How far closed will depend on the flue draft and the wood.

PS: Tip, don't use the little start up air in the front center. It is pretty ineffective, but easy to forget. With dry wood that can run the stove too hot. Instead, leave the door ajar for the first 5-10 minutes while the fire is starting.

 

[oldspark]

Oak is not worth a crap for starting fires, is your maple soft or hard, you need a less dense wood for starting fires and Oak is not it, Oak needs a good bed of coals to catch fire. Are you checking the splits for moisture on a fresh split and not on the outside?

 

[joejkd]

Begreen, I think you're right. We've had a wet July but an extremely dry August, followed by a hurricane, so our weather's been all over the place! I just bought the house and closed end of July. I inherited the wood pile from the previous owner, and he had it delivered a year ago. I bought the meter just to be sure.

Some of the pieces were split already, but to abou ant 8-9" cross section, so I re-split them through August and stacked them on a wood rack out in the sun with plenty of wind.

I figured it would have to be dry by then, but I guess not? What can I do now? I didn't order any wood (I fell my own so I have next years supply of white pine, birch, maple and cherry already split and stacked outside) for this season so this stuff is all I have. The meter does read them consistently under 20%, even on fresh split....

I will buy a bundle of dry wood at the store on my way home and tell you how it goes.

I also believe that my stove requires much smaller than normal splits, so I'll resplit again some of my existing pieces to 2-3" and make my larges splits 4" max. What do you all think of that?

 

[jimbom]

...I also believe that my stove requires much smaller than normal splits, so I'll resplit again some of my existing pieces to 2-3" and make my larges splits 4" max. What do you all think of that?

Do it. Run every experiment you can think of. Something will work great for you this winter.

 

[begreen]

I regularly burned 4-5" thick splits in this stove without problem. Once a coal bed was established, it burns pretty well. Do you have an indoor spot where you could dry out some wood?

 

[oldspark]

If the wood is under 25% as read on a MM which as BK's chart showed reads a little high the wood will be fine, try some of the pine or cherry and see how it works.

 

[joejkd]

I don't have a large enough indoor area to dry massive amounts of the stuff, but I could fit in a 4' wood rack inside if I had to

 

[begreen]

Do what you can. Even if you can just store a week or two ahead in the house it can make a difference sometimes.

 

[rijim]

If you have access to some wood pallets, try them and see how it burns; this may also give some hot coals to help burn marginal dry wood.

Jim

 

[Kenster]

Like the others have said, despite what your meter says it sure sounds like you're trying to burn wet wood. You may have to bite the bullet this first winter and buy a pallet of super cedars. Or, for that matter, see if you can scrounge up a bunch of wood pallets. They would certain make for better starter wood and maybe help your oak along.

I know nothing about your stove but I use the top-down method once I learned about it here. I used up to ten knots of newspaper. I make starter sticks by splitting up cedar fence posts which cost about five dollars at the lumber yard. One fence post will make five or six hundred pencil size starter sticks. I cut the post to about eleven inches long then use a wedge and hammer and split them up. I make a couple hundred at a time and keep them in a basket near the stove.

So, I lay out my wood and despite what someone said, dry oak works great (that's about all we have down here.) I put a couple of layers of five to six inch oak splits down East/West then a layer of smaller splits North/South. I squeeze in a few newspaper knots here and there, stick a few of my cedar sticks here and there. Then top it off with several cedar sticks mixed in with more newspaper knots. I light as many knots as I can reach and close the doors most of the way. It doesn't take long for a nice draft to kick in and the knots and cedar sticks will be totally involved.

In ten minutes I have a roaring fire.

Don't give up. Keep reporting back as you try new things. I think your technique is probably fine. I'm more concerned about your wood.

 

[joejkd]

Well I don't think it's the wood. I just bought a bundle from the store. I'm sitting in front of what should be a fire right now and still, nothing. Maybe it's the whole north-south thing? I guess I'll try that next but this stove just really isn't deep enough for it.

EDIT: Ok fire finally caught. I had the stove loaded for a top down fire. I could not get anything but my pine kindling to light (as usual). I then noticed that fire had caught at the BACK of the firebox. I pulled one of the front pieces off and kind of loosely criss crossed everything front to back (diagonally, of course). Boom, roaring fire in 2 minutes. This is the second time I've noticed better combustion towards the back of the firebox. Is this just a fluke or am I on to something here?

 

[Kenster]

Are you leaving the door/doors of the stove open until you get a good roaring fire? I leave my door open a couple of inches. With a good draft, having the doors open just an inch or so creates a venturi effect and really sucks the air in. I've noticed I can control where the fire flames up by how much the door is open or if I have just the left side or just the right side open.

Keep playing with it. You'll figure it out. be sure to let us know!

 

[oldspark]

90% of the time (at least) if it aint the wood its the draft and if aint the draft its the wood, you get the picture.

 

[joejkd]

I do indeed leave the door open until the fire is going.

But the back of the firebox? The fire is almost ready for the next cycle. I'm going to try raking the coals to the bag and rekindling the fire there just to rule it out. I'll let you all know how it goes!

 

[oldspark]

With good wood and good draft you should not have to leave the door open very long, I can close mine in a couple of minutes now that the temps are in the 20's at night.

 

[joejkd]

Ok still having issues with this. I need some specific pointers I think relating to the top-down lay:

1.) Do the pieces need to be criss-crossed? I can't generally fit wood depthwise into my stove.

2.) Should there be spaces or no spaces between pieces within the same row?

3.) How large, in inches at largest cross-section, should the bottom pieces be? Middle pieces? Pieces right below the kindling?

If I can get the lay right and it still doesn't work, I can rule out my technique. I really don't think it's the wood or draft though, because once I get a fire to catch it's pretty easy to keep it pumping nice and hot (350-500 degree stove top throughout each cycle).

 

[NH_Wood]

Oak is not worth a crap for starting fires, is your maple soft or hard, you need a less dense wood for starting fires and Oak is not it, Oak needs a good bed of coals to catch fire. Are you checking the splits for moisture on a fresh split and not on the outside?

Oldspark is dead on here - oak or other very dense wood is a bear to use when starting fresh fires - using less dense woods, red maple, white birch, cherry, etc., are great for adding to an early fire at this time of year (keep them split on the smaller side). Cheers!

 

[Kenster]

Once you get a fire to catch you're kicking your draft up several notches. An improved draft equals better, longer fire. If you're house is really airtight, try opening the nearest window a few inches, leave the stove door open only a couple of inches.

As far as filling the stove, I don't tend to pack it in when I first light it up. I keep it loose with plenty of space between splits and sticks- give it lots of air.

If you can't get a crossed layer of wood in there, trying laying three medium size splits on the bottom, put several short, skinny sticks in in the opposite direction, then put in a couple of smaller splits on top of the skinny cross sticks which will serve to raise the level of the second layer. Place lots of little sticks and other kindling in between the bigger splits. Place some newspaper knots in and among the bigger splits. Then put several pieces of kindling and newspaper knots on top.

Light the lowest newspaper knots, and the ones in the back first. Then light the ones on top if you can still safely do that. The newspaper knots and smallest kindling should get a pretty good flame going that will start pulling in outside air, creating a draft.

If you are certain that your wood is good and your draft is good that doesn't leave anything but fire laying technique.