Issues with my Harman XXV

[mdphilps]

I tried to fire up my Harman XXV today for the first time and I'm having some issues. No matter what I try as far as settings go, I keep getting a "Status 6" error. I've tried to turn my feed rate up to 6, room temp mode, 75 degrees, med fan.....after about 50 mins it shuts down with a "status 6". I've tried dropping the feed rate to 3. I've tried to increase the temperature, I've tried increasing and decreasing the fan...no luck. I keep getting the "status 6". I did install the outside air and I thought there might be an issue with that, so I unhooked it and ran off inside air....no luck, same thing. I've made sure the air vent is not stuck closed.

One thing I did notice....I timed my feed motor for when it was at feed rate 6 ....and when it was at feed rate 3. And they are virtually identical times. So to me this means that feed rate 3 should be ok....right?

I'm not sure what else to do.....PLEASE HELP

Thanks in advance,
Matt

 

[HarryBack]

How old is the stove, Matt? Was it from last year or this year? Does the stove not stay lit, does it just idle along, hard start (other symptoms other than the status 6 thing)?

 

[mdphilps]

The stove is Brand new. I just bought it in August. This is the first time I tried using it....beside the 1/2 hour it ran while my install guy was here. Once the status 6 kicks in....it shuts down the feed motor, and eventually the distribution fan. And then fianlly after everything has been burnt it shuts down the combustion fan. I called my install guy and he asked if anything is blocking the flue.....NO. So he said he was going to put in a call to Harman and get back to me.

Matt

 

[GVA]

Could be a bad exhaust sensor probe for one
possible control board issue
or elevation issue
At what altitude do you reside? Some elevations need an comb blower blade change.

The issues I listed above are assuming Air intake and exhaust are all clear,pipes were run properly ie: not too many elbows.....I hate saying this did installer draft test it at install.

So the next step here for us is how is your stove and piping setup
What time did you arrive at when you checked the feed rate at 3 and 6 and it was identical.
When it does burn what do the flames look like are they leaning towards the glass or back against the wall? Color?

 

[HarryBack]

and you checked your pipes, too? No dead things in there? No bees nests? I assume there was no 6 blink errors on install, of course. What was the initial draft reading? If they took one initially, the first thing the tech should do is take another...if there is a great difference, its the venting. Could be the ESP probe, the room temp probe, faulty circuit board. Likely not the esp probe, as that should be a 3 blink error....usually the infamous 6 blink error is due to incomplete combustion. What type of air intake was used? If you used the harman intake kit, #677077, its possible the installer forgot to cut out the disc of insulation on the thimble where the intake pipe attatches. BUT, a 6 blink error....this ought to be warrantee...you ought not to be trying to figure this out! Your dealer should be over there checking for all of this stuff....not waiting to "hear back" from Harman. Now, be prepared, if its a dead bird in there or whatnot, THAT isnt covered by warrantee. Good luck!

 

[mdphilps]

Thanks Harry & GVA for helping me out with this.

My installer did call me back and Harman wanted me to make sure there were no blockages (bridges) in the hopper. That's like one of the first things I tried.

To answer some of your questions....

- I don't live in a high area...I'm in PA outside of Philadelphia.
- NO draft tests were taken at install or since install
- My flue pipe comes out into a T with a cleanout on the bottom. It goes vertical for about 7 and a half feet to an 90* elbow and then horizontal out through my concrete wall for about 2 feet to an endcap with a wire grille on it to keep out debris.
- My timing came out to about 25 secs on, 35 secs off.....for both Feed 6 and Feed 3.
- Flames go straight up against the heatsink wall
- Flames rarely go far out of the burnpot, and almost never reach the top of the stove.
- The air intake kit consist of a 3 inch flexi pipe. I had to use 2 - 8 foot runs but the second 8 foot pipe isn't totally extended. It then attaches to a 3" to 4" adaptor and then attaches to the outside endcap.

I'm trying to run on "stove temp" setting now and it seems to be running a lot better. I'll keep you posted to see if this runs longer then an hour. I hope so, but then again I'd like to be able to run in Room temp mode, so I'd like to get this thing fixed.

Thanks again for all of your help I LOVE this forum!

Matt

 

[GVA]

Harry while were waiting for a reply here from him I have the impression that "install guy" is not "dealer". If so he may be waiting a while and should get in touch with dealer. Maybe I'm wrong though.

As far as the ESP it is a thermocouple probably type J, not an RTD or thermister correct? And if it is a T/C then if it was damaged at install such as being bent, the T/C when heated can give erratic readings back to board sensing poor combustion or overtemp. Or possibly the wire got chafed at install and is reading off of the stoves metal itself changing the resistance reading.
Stat 3 would be a total failure of ESP.
My manual has no mention of anything other than the status 6 so i had to download the xxv manual.

If it is improper venting or install damage he would not be covered under warranty I believe. If his dealer did install it and it's not working then they should probably just replace the stove since it is practicaly unused and fix it at the shop perhaps.
It is starting to get cold around here ;-)

 

[GVA]

OK, sorry........ ignore the first part of my last post on dealer or no dealer.
I left my computer in the middle of that post it took me a while to compose it, also had to check the xxv manual.

Anyway keep us posted :cheese:

 

[mdphilps]

UPDATE - It's been running for the past 3 and a half hours with no "status 6". It's in Stove mode and seems to be running fine.

So the issue is definitly with the Room mode. What do you guys think? A bad room temp. probe? That should be a easy fix.

Thanks so much for your help!! For now I'll run in stove mode until my dealer (who is also my installer), can come out and take a look at the probe etc.

Matt

 

[GVA]

Sounds like it has to do with room temp mode but it doesn't make sense why the room temp probe would give you a stat 6. Stat 6 is incomplete or poor combustion

 

[mdphilps]

OK...it's 7:30AM and I just woke up to find the stove dead again with a status 6. It ran ALOT longer in stove mode but eventually it dies with a status 6. I'll notify my dealer and see what he says. Hopefully we can get a new unit in here.

Matt

 

[FredJ]

isnt 14ish feet kind of long for an air intake? I would assume there would be a lot of resistance. Have you tried temporarily removing the air intake? Where is the room sensor placed? the Distribution blower isnt blowing on it is it? you said the flame isnt very high, have you checked your pellets? try some fresh ones. Mine had picked up a little some dampness, I assume from sitting in the auger/hopper for a few months without usage. My GUESS was dampness seeping in from the outside air.

 

[mdphilps]

I've tried removing the outside air intake and ran off inside air....but no luck, still status 6.

The room sensor is curled up in the back of the stove hanging of where it plugs in. (dist blower not near it)

I do have a different type of pellet that I should try. Thanks for the suggestion!

Matt

 

[FredJ]

also try moving the sensor out away from the stove

 

[tundraSQ]

isnt 14ish feet kind of long for an air intake? I would assume there would be a lot of resistance. Have you tried temporarily removing the air intake? Where is the room sensor placed? the Distribution blower isnt blowing on it is it? you said the flame isnt very high, have you checked your pellets? try some fresh ones. Mine had picked up a little some dampness, I assume from sitting in the auger/hopper for a few months without usage. My GUESS was dampness seeping in from the outside air.

I was told when planning my XXV install that if I went 14' of vent I should step up to 4" pipe.

 

[GVA]

When your stove is running is there black smoke visable coming out of the pipe?

 

[HarryBack]

It likely isnt the intake length, since matt had sais he unhooked it and it still "6 blinked". Seems more prevalent in Room Mode rather than Stove mode...thats odd...stove mode only takes readings from the ESP probe, while Room Temp Mode utilizes both probes. GVA, most ESP failures are 3 blink errors, but the 6 blink covers alot of things. How about checking that hanging damper in the intake port.....is it stuck? if it doesnt open enough, with your long run of intake pipe, you might not be getting sufficient air for complete combustion...and this would take several hours to occur generally, and it would generally happen when demand is greatest...at night.
I dont think pellets are going to make a difference...youd know pretty quickly if they were too wet...theyd swell up badly.
Sounds more like a blockage of one type or another to me...somewhere. Most Harman dealers own two devices, one a Magnahelic, to check draft, the other a DDM, which interfaces with the circuitboard and tells you alot of data, such as what the ESP probe temp is, the room probe temp, the dipswitch settings (checked those?), and all the board settings. WHat you look for here are inconsistencies....a burning stove that registers 70 degrees at the ESP for instance...obviously screwed up.....or a stove that isnt burning and the ESP reads 300 degrees.....bad ESP. An easy check here, the dealer ought to just change out the ESP, rather than change out the stove. The only instance I can see where a stove would or should be changed out is when all options have been tested and considered, and sadly, here, I dont see that its been done.....noone has read the draft, noone has put a DDM on the machine, noone has even done anything as simple as change out the ESP probe, circuitboard, or the Room Probe.

 

[GVA]

Well reguardless of what we all think the dealer needs to get out there and physicaly look at it and not try to fix it by phone. And why would the dealer call Harman before actually going out there to check on it them selves. That's just weird?
My thought on replacing the stove was only that here he is now having to wait through the weekend with a stove not working properly while said dealer is trying to get support for a stove that he is possibly unfamiliar with. Which had never been fired other that at install. Now it's saturday and he will have to wait another day at least till he get's service. And that just sucks.

 

[pelletheat]

The circuit board is looking for a temperature from the ESP based on the temperature set points on the control panel. Is there anything in the burnpot after the 6 blink status? One suggestion is to make sure the fuel is not bridging at the bottom of the hopper. Check the pellets you are using, if you see alot pellets that look to be longer then 1 1/2" (PFI maximum length) this can cause the fuel to bridge at the bottom of the hopper.
Another suggestion is do not compact the fuel into the hopper to "squeeze" in extra few pounds, I know from past practice this will also cause the pellets to bridge. If there is not enough pellets to burn & maintain the esp temperature to run in conjuction with user temperature setpoints the stove will go into the dreaded 6 blink status after 50 minutes of "poor or incomplete combustion". There are other "issues" that may cause the 6 blink status, but with a new stove & new user this just may be the easy fix, worth a try since dealer may not see you til Monday.

 

[mdphilps]

OK....for now I think the problem is solved!!

I removed the pellets that were in the hopper (they were in there since the install in August) and I changed them out for a fresh bag (different brand).

So far NO issues. I ran in stove mode with the new pellets and it worked fine so I decided to try the new pellets in Room mode. So far NO issue with that either. It burning like a champ. I guess I'll call my stove guy and fill him in.

Guess you could chalk it up to a rookie mistake!! But I did learn alot about my stove because of this issue.

Thanks alot everyone for your help!!

Matt

 

[HarryBack]

ummm....how about calling him, telling him what you did, but that you are still concerned about the issue. I really, really, really, dont think that "bad" pellets would do this, unless they were obviously bad....and thats usually quite obvious. Have him check the unit out anyways, maybe take a draft reading while hes there (hint-hint), heck, even have him hook up the DDM to it!

 

[FredJ]

I agree with Harry, dont cancel the call let them come out and do the tests and readings that should have been done in the 1st place. If you tell them pellets helped, you have given them an out. Also, you didnt mention if you moved the room sensor. How does the flame look? Just becasue you didnt get a Status 6 right away doesnt mean everything is fine.