Jamming the forums with dumb questions

[Jester]

Mornin all. I got looking through the forums for this info, and didnt really find anything that pertained to the question, so sorry in advance for the duplicity if there is any.

Im working on getting my Harman P38 installed. Ive called two certified chimney guys. I have an 8 foot cieling in the room that Im in. Ill be using a thimble to go through the sheetrock, then through the attic (another 2 feet) then through the roof. I'll be using 4" Simpson pellet pro chimney I think it is (they said it didnt require caulking). One price $1500. Second price $600. Both guys are booked up about two weeks. Ive got a third person coming in to give me an estimate this Saturday, but Im lost to how there can be such a hige disparity between the two chimney guys.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
The second guy initially suggested a horizontal out through the wall, 90 degree up and three feet to terminate. The stove is in the middle of the front side of a cape, between a door and window that are roughly 48" apart. When I asked him how he would get his clearance to the door and window, he just said yeah, that could be a problem, plus the soot and ash could be messy on the front side of the house, maybe we should go through the roof.
The first guy seemed pick up on everything I had already looked at for clearances and instal tips, but is that worth a $900 difference?
Let me know what you think
E

 

[MCPO]

Mornin all. I got looking through the forums for this info, and didnt really find anything that pertained to the question, so sorry in advance for the duplicity if there is any.

Im working on getting my Harman P38 installed. Ive called two certified chimney guys. I have an 8 foot cieling in the room that Im in. Ill be using a thimble to go through the sheetrock, then through the attic (another 2 feet) then through the roof. I'll be using 4" Simpson pellet pro chimney I think it is (they said it didnt require caulking). One price $1500. Second price $600. Both guys are booked up about two weeks. Ive got a third person coming in to give me an estimate this Saturday, but Im lost to how there can be such a hige disparity between the two chimney guys.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
The second guy initially suggested a horizontal out through the wall, 90 degree up and three feet to terminate. The stove is in the middle of the front side of a cape, between a door and window that are roughly 48" apart. When I asked him how he would get his clearance to the door and window, he just said yeah, that could be a problem, plus the soot and ash could be messy on the front side of the house, maybe we should go through the roof.
The first guy seemed pick up on everything I had already looked at for clearances and instal tips, but is that worth a $900 difference?
Let me know what you think
E

As I`ve been saying all along, I`d just as soon trust a used car salesman than *some* of these opportunists in the stove business. The honest dealers/installers shouldn`t be offended by this.

 

[bungalobob]

Your post brings a similiar problem I have with the location of my Harman P68. I am forced to put stove in front of house because of circumstances. I will be using Harmans direct vent system, it uses outside air as well and adds to efficiency. It can go straight out through wall with no rise. The front of my house has an open porch with railing so the pipe won't be so obviously visible from the street, but it will be visible nonetheless. All that is required outside is patio blocks on ground if cumbustible surface (my porch planks). It also reduces the restrictions on clearances. It can be eighteen inches from windows, but must be at least 24" from the ground. I don't know if this would be an option for you or not, but the kit is a lot cheaper and simpler to install, and would eliminate going through ceiling and roof. Ask your Harman dealer first and check out the link I have below. Don't take my word for it, read it first and talk with the dealer. It may not be the ideal set-up, but it works for my scenario. As for the soot, they say the Harmans burn real clean, and most of the soot comes from start-up. I have no experience yet with those claims, but I am hoping for them to be true, alot less to clean up come spring. Good Luck.


(broken link removed to http://harmanstoves.com/doc/p68m.pdf)

 

[Jester]

I was more wondering how two people could have a $900 difference on the same job with supposedly the same parts

 

[Jester]

Yup. Had to talk guy # 2 into 4" pipe from 3", and to go through roof

 

[Wet1]

If those prices include the cost of the pipe, the guy biding $600 would be taking a bath on that job!

 

[imacman]

I guess we're assuming that the $$ quoted by both included the same brand pipe? Or did it include any pipe at all, or was just for labor?

Well, anyway, even if the #2 guy raises the price $300, you'd still be ahead of guy #1. I'm curious what the 3rd guy says.

 

[Jester]

10 AM Sat for the third bid.
The first guy is the one Im heavily leaning toward. Nobody itemizes thier bid, but they both state the same brand pipe. The first guy took his time, took measurements, went home researched it then came back to explain the quote to me (35 minute drive for him). Guy # 2 was here for roughly 15 minutes total, and had his quote for me before he even came into the house to see what we had.( I came home from work and he was putting the quote together in his van, thats when he mentioned a horizontal out, 90 up three feet and cap, right in the center of the front of my house betweek the door and window that are 29 inches apart)
It also helps that guy # 1 is a former marine/firefighter and vietnam vet and former VP of the NH chimneysweep association, which I think speaks a ton for his character and integrity. Id be willing to bet he wont be over his quote(he didnt mention this and I didnt ask). Oddly enough guy #2 guarenteed me he wouldnt go over. Im not looking to cheap out. Im a firefighter/mechanic/machinist by trade and Ive seen the results of cheap installs. I was just curious to see where everyone else tended to be on thier costs.
Ill shoot something here Saturday afternoon and let you know where guy # 3 went, but I think he's gonna hafta impress the crap out of me to beat guy # 1. (and how can you say no to a company with a name like "slepy hollow chimneys")

 

[bostonbaked]

quote Im a firefighter/mechanic/machinist by trade and Ive seen the results of cheap installs. Just out of curiosity Jester, why don't you do it yourself and save some big money. The skills you have should make this a piece of cake.

 

[Steveo]

I am guessing guy #1 is or has an established business and knows what he needs to charge to make a living and cover expenses. It sounds like guy #2 is going to loose his shirt and has not been in business very long and will probably not be in business much longer if he keeps losing money by quoting jobs to low.

 

[Jester]

quote Im a firefighter/mechanic/machinist by trade and Ive seen the results of cheap installs. Just out of curiosity Jester, why don't you do it yourself and save some big money. The skills you have should make this a piece of cake.

Time mostly. I work five 8 hour shifts, plus have a side job ( we dont get paid crap here in town, and its pretty expensive to live here)
Ive also got two daughters under three, so time is a big thing. If I had a clean through wall to do with a horizontal chimney Id jump on it with no problem, my single largest fear is not getting the roof flashing correct and having a leak. Im right at the edge of the marsh and when we get a nor easter my house is at the bad end of a nasty wet wind tunnel effect.
Ive got a built in hutch to demo, which seperates the living/dining rooms where the stove is gonna go, hardwood flooring to put in (they floored around the hutch) and resheetrock/install recessed lights in both rooms (yeah, electrical skills too).
I just want someone else to be pissed at if the roof leaks. Kinda a weak excuse but what can I say.

 

[peterpski666]

I bet the $600 guy isnt telling you materials or labor as part of his price, unless he wrote you out a quote, then he's really hosed or hard up for work. I had a simple install and they quoted 550 materials, 500 install. Which guy will come back if it leaks?

 

[Edward Harrigan]

There is alot of different thing that go into pricing. Some question to ask 1. are they insured, 2. are they certified and lisenced. 3. what materials are they using.
4. are they going to be ther next year if you have a proplem. All these thing go into how mush things cost. Iwork for a chimney sweep company and we are considered exspencive. But we are all certifiedwe are insured and we can do job that not all companys can do.

 

[bostonbaked]

[quote)
I just want someone else to be pissed at if the roof leaks. :lol: I hear that... I don't blame ya .

 

[terryjd98]

I think I would be going with guy number 1. Almost sounds to me like the 2nd guy doesn't really know what he is doing. If guy number 2 wanted to end an install between a door and window 29 inches apart and the specs says 4ft for you stove like most that I have read then what else is he going to screw up.
I have had quotes in the $750.00 to $1000.00 range for install plus $600.00 to $700.00 in parts. I am going to do the install myself, its just a streight through the wall and up 4 feet install. I know I have the skills though to do it myself. Have done Masonary, carpentry, electrical over the years, whatever job I could get to pay the bills till something better came along. Been a computer tech for last 7 years after going back to college for 2 years. Maybe I should look for a job installing these stoves, can't be any worse then guy number 2.

 

[imacman]

.....I just want someone else to be pissed at if the roof leaks. Kinda a weak excuse but what can I say.

Works for me....LOL

 

[katman]

The $1500 has a very nice profit margin for the installer but is not out of line for a quality install job in my area. A couple hundred less (around 1200) is still going to give the installer a good wage for a job that will take a good part of a day. The 600 seems just too low. Price out the parts. You'll need the connection to the stove, t , thimble for your sheetrock penatration and roof penetration shield, rainshield, cap and sounds like about 14 feet of pipe. Maybee an offset, silicon, screws, tape and other misc. supplies. Might also need a couple of roofing shingles, so he probably will have to get a whole bundle, and some sealant.

I've done installs doing through the sidewall and through the roof. Never worried about a leak on the sidewall. Had one on the roof start to leak after 5 years. Chased it with sealant for a couple of seasons and finally reshingled around the chimney last month. If that $600 guy is doing quality work he must be doing it just to keep busy cause he would earn more for his labor at McDonalds.

I don't do these installs for a living but it's not hard if I have the time. I'm with you. Sounds like you have enough projects. Choose someone who will do a good job and pay them a fair rate so you don't have to worry about a leak.

 

[Jester]

2:30 PM. Called guy # 3 on his cell (1 PM appointement) "I dont have anything written here, and I talk to so many people I dont know if I was supposed to be there or not." I explained to him that we spoke on the 25th at 7:15 PM when he returned my call from 2 days prior to that we agreed on today at 1. Having no time left and needing to get to the garage to get my car after the fuel pump died last night I thanked him for his time. He just called me now (3:14 PM) and left me a voicemail saying he wrote down next weekend and that I must be mistaken.
I can see why he first guy commands 1500, and why he's gonna get it and a thank you from me.

 

[imacman]

2:30 PM. Called guy # 3 on his cell (1 PM appointement) "I dont have anything written here, and I talk to so many people I dont know if I was supposed to be there or not." I explained to him that we spoke on the 25th at 7:15 PM when he returned my call from 2 days prior to that we agreed on today at 1. Having no time left and needing to get to the garage to get my car after the fuel pump died last night I thanked him for his time. He just called me now (3:14 PM) and left me a voicemail saying he wrote down next weekend and that I must be mistaken.
I can see why he first guy commands 1500, and why he's gonna get it and a thank you from me.

If my father told me once, he told me a million times....."Son, you get what you pay for"

Good luck w/ the install, and don't forget to post pics.....no pics = it never really happened. :lol: