Jotul 118 burning

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brianbeech

Feeling the Heat
Jan 11, 2011
303
Southern IN
Chimney sweep finally came and installed my Jotul 118. Still have some studs to remove, but I warmed her up tonight. Not sure what my temps were and I was too scared to get her too hot, so when my thermometer gets here, we can really see how much she'll output.

Getting excited and ready for some 'good' wood and some real heat.

Bad pic, but at least shows I can start a fire. I'm scared I'm going to over-fire it, but I bet it only reached 400 before I got too scared and turned it down. :D
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Looking good. Get a thermometer on it soon. This is a willing heater. Once it is going well don't be surprised if you can close the air completely and it's still burning hot. Did a flue damper get installed? That will help regulate it.

That's a bit of a generous load for a break in fire, but it looks like you are off to the races for sure.

I shrunk the pic. It was hard to appreciate at that size.
 
Ah, there's an old familiar sight that brings back some nice memories. :)

BG's right, once that gal gets blazing, closing the air only seems to intensify the burn. Decreasing the size of the inlet opening increases the velocity of the air going into the box and makes for a more aggressive and energetic burn. The sweet spot on mine was usually about 5/16" at the widest part of the opening. I kept a piece of 5/16" drill rod on the ash lip to set the stove there at night. I agree about the pipe damper as well. I always used mine to fine-tune the burn. Very simple but highly effective heater.

Curious, though. Why do you need a break in fire with a used stove? Did you rebuild it recently?
 
Curious, though. Why do you need a break in fire with a used stove? Did you rebuild it recently?

It's almost a new stove that has sat idle for decades.
 
Thermometer should be here any day; fingers crossed. Now if only I had known my neighbor was going to give me a stove I could have prepared with some wood. Flue damper - I'll have to check that out. BK, I can see exactly what you're saying about the air rushing into the box and making for an aggressive burn; you could literally HEAR it pulling in the air and charging the flames.

BG, thanks for shrinking. :)
 
brianbeech said:
Chimney sweep finally came and installed my Jotul 118. Still have some studs to remove, but I warmed her up tonight. Not sure what my temps were and I was too scared to get her too hot, so when my thermometer gets here, we can really see how much she'll output.

Getting excited and ready for some 'good' wood and some real heat.

Bad pic, but at least shows I can start a fire. I'm scared I'm going to over-fire it, but I bet it only reached 400 before I got too scared and turned it down. :D
- (pic is really big, didn't have anything to resize at the moment.)

Nice stove! I use this program to resize pics, it's small easy to use and free!

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/shrinkpic.html

Ray
 
What's your stack height?
 
Woody Stover said:
What's your stack height?

I've measured by dropping a line down the flue, then measuring the line and I came up with 24' (which I believe to be almost to the floor of the chimney). The stove is hooked up about 4.5' up the chimney - so I've got to think roughly 20'.
 
brianbeech said:
Woody Stover said:
What's your stack height?
I've got to think roughly 20'.
From the previous comments in this thread, I'd think you'll be needing a flue damper. They're easy enough to install; Just drill a couple of holes at 180*, feed the shaft through with one hand while holding the damper with the other.
 
Woody Stover said:
From the previous comments in this thread, I'd think you'll be needing a flue damper. They're easy enough to install; Just drill a couple of holes at 180*, feed the shaft through with one hand while holding the damper with the other.

Help me understand please. I've got a stove that has a damper/air control on it. I would *think* that if I shut the air to the stove off, the fire would die. I'm *hearing* (I think) that this is not necessarily the case and that my chimney would have so much draw that it will pull air in anyway and make my fire burn at a good rate, with no way for me to shut it down, which I assume could lead to over-firing? I'm assuming this is where a flue damper would be very useful and allow me to control the stove burn rate better. I guess, providing all that I've said I *think* I've heard is correct, my question is: how do I 'know' how to utilize this the best? Do I also get a flue thermometer and use it in conjunction with the stovetop thermometer to figure out how much heat is going each place and adjust the damper accordingly? And, would I adjust the damper to a good setting, mark it and then only open it if I'm having trouble getting the stove lit after being cold?

Thanks all!
 
Key dampers are not solid. They are not for shutting down the fire, they only restrict a certain percentage of the flue gases. Use them for draft reduction. There are holes in them to allow some flue gases to pass. I found it helpful to have both a stove top thermometer and one on the flue pipe. On our 602, with a fairly short stack, if there was no keydamper, the pipe could get up to 900F. With the damper in and closed off most of the way (once the fire was going well), the flue temp would drop to about 4-500F and the stove top would come up about 100-150F to settle at about 650-700F. On reload, open key damper first, reload, let wood ignite for a minute of so, close down air and close down key damper. The position for your pipe may vary.

Note, this is on a non-EPA stove!
 
brianbeech said:
would I adjust the damper to a good setting, mark it and then only open it if I'm having trouble getting the stove lit after being cold?
As BG said, you'll open the damper first, any time you want to open the load door. You might forget the first couple of times, but the face-full of smoke you'll get will train you in a hurry. :lol:
You won't have to mark the position; You'll quickly learn where the damper needs to be set to control your draft. It's good that you were able to shut down the primary air and slow the stove down, but when you get well-seasoned wood you may need the damper to control your burn.
Happy heating!
 
What kind of temps should I look for on my stovetop? Also, I've got about a 6' run of black single wall stovepipe to the flue, what kind of temps should I look for there? How far up the stove pipe should I put the damper and also how far should I place the flue thermometer?

Sorry, lots of questions - hungry for knowledge.
 
brianbeech said:
What kind of temps should I look for on my stovetop? Also, I've got about a 6' run of black single wall stovepipe to the flue, what kind of temps should I look for there? How far up the stove pipe should I put the damper and also how far should I place the flue thermometer?
Recommended stove top temps for the new F 118 are 400-600*, but that stove isn't identical to yours. I'd assume that would still be a safe range, though.
There are a couple of threads about probe and surface flue thermometers here that may answer some of your questions. There's some question as to weather the markings for operating range are useful, though....some think that the recommended 18" for probes gives too high a reading and causes people to run their flues too cool. I don't know too much about flue temp theory yet, but I figure if the pipe isn't cold or glowing, I'm OK. :lol:
As far as the height of the damper, I don't think that's critical.
 
brianbeech said:
What kind of temps should I look for on my stovetop? Also, I've got about a 6' run of black single wall stovepipe to the flue, what kind of temps should I look for there? How far up the stove pipe should I put the damper and also how far should I place the flue thermometer?

Sorry, lots of questions - hungry for knowledge.

If you are using a magnetic surface thermometer on the flue, 3-400F after the pipe damper is closed would be good.

The damper installation needs you to be able to reach in the pipe, so I would put it about 12" above the stove connection. Then put the thermometer about 18" above the stove connection or about 6" above the damper.

Each stove and installation has it's own point of equilibrium. Let us know what you are getting for readings.

Also, this stove is not one to space out while starting. It can overfire easily because of the blowtorch effect down the length of the fuel charge. Get used to carrying a timer to remind you to check the stove air in 5 or 10 minutes or you could come back to a very hot stove. (Don't ask how I know, but it happens.)
 
BeGreen said:
Also, this stove is not one to space out while starting. It can overfire easily because of the blowtorch effect down the length of the fuel charge. Get used to carrying a timer to remind you to check the stove air in 5 or 10 minutes or you could come back to a very hot stove. (Don't ask how I know, but it happens.)

BG, your advice may be prudent, but that's more of an issue with the old 602 than the 118. 24 inches is a long way back for that blowtorch to reach. I don't ever remember having a problem with the 118 getting out of hand. The 602's air delivery capability was way excessive for its size.
 
Well, got the stove top thermometer yesterday and started a fire last night. This stove is so easy to get going it amazes me. Some small sticks/wood pieces and a little big of paper in the front and I've got a fire going in no time. Anyway, I built a fire with some small splits and had my stove up to 300f in no time, problem was, I left the air open fully for more than an hour (as I sat in front of the stove and only went away for 10 minute intervals) and my temp stayed at 300-325f. I'm imagining most of the heat was going out the flue, so I put another few small splits on it and gave it a few to let those catch. Once they did, I turned the air down to almost nothing and bingo! I finally made it into the 400f mark. I put a larger split on there and opened the air to let it catch, then turned the air back down. I never did get above 425. I put that last piece on around 9:30 and when I went downstairs this morning at 7:40, my stove top was 150f.

I'm guessing my wood has a lot to do with not getting very hot as well as not having a flue damper? This wood is a year old, but it was just cut and stacked, not split. Most of the pieces could be put on without being split as their diameter is only around 6"-12" (I'm splitting the 12's). Any suggestions? Oh, and I assume there are 'nice' flue dampers and 'junk' ones; care to suggest one?
 
brianbeech said:
I assume there are 'nice' flue dampers and 'junk' ones; care to suggest one?
All you need is the garden variety cast iron damper, available at any stove dealer or farm store. Home Depot probably has them, as they sell Englander stoves. Mine has worked for 25 years....
 
brianbeech said:
This stove is so easy to get going it amazes me. Some small sticks/wood pieces and a little big of paper in the front and I've got a fire going in no time.

Yes, those old Jotuls were a breeze to get going.

problem was, I left the air open fully for more than an hour (as I sat in front of the stove and only went away for 10 minute intervals) and my temp stayed at 300-325f.

This has been discussed with the old 602 before. Unless you have almost no draw, there is no reason to ever have the air control fully open, let alone for an hour. Once a draw is established you should be winding it down fairly quickly, eventually it will be barely open as has been described by others. You're just dumping tons of air out the flue and cooling the upper chamber.

Until you have a full coals bed established, try smaller-diameter splits (4"-5"), and make sure you leave some air space between them so the strong shoot of air down the center can penetrate the wood stack.
 
brianbeech said:
I left the air open fully for more than an hour (as I sat in front of the stove and only went away for 10 minute intervals) and my temp stayed at 300-325f. I'm imagining most of the heat was going out the flue, so I put another few small splits on it and gave it a few to let those catch. Once they did, I turned the air down to almost nothing and bingo! I finally made it into the 400f mark. I put a larger split on there and opened the air to let it catch, then turned the air back down. I never did get above 425.

I'm guessing my wood has a lot to do with not getting very hot as well as not having a flue damper? This wood is a year old, but it was just cut and stacked, not split. Most of the pieces could be put on without being split as their diameter is only around 6"-12" (I'm splitting the 12's). Any suggestions? Oh, and I assume there are 'nice' flue dampers and 'junk' ones; care to suggest one?

My stove was a Taiwanese clone, but operationally it was identical in every way. I never had mine burn out of control. In the beginning of the last year I owned it, a big chunk of gasketing came off the door. I couldn't get out to get a new gasket, so I decided to try to keep a fire going with the air control closed and just letting air seep in from the missing gasket area, but it just went out. Even under those conditions, it needed about a 1/4" opening or it would smolder. The pipe damper was only used because mine was fed into a very unrestrictive 8"x8" tile-lined flue. Once that flue got real hot, the pull was stronger than the stove was designed to need. The damper did help to hold more heat in the stove, but it tended toward creosote if I choked it down too far.

As far as a good one to get, call around to a few old hardware stores. These things aren't the big seller they once were. They may have some nice old American-made stock. I believe all the new ones are made in China.

Opening the air all the way did seem to send a lot of heat up the chimney, and the stove was cooler then as well. Here's a sequence I shot a few years ago that shows what happens with a good fire in there as you stop down the air. Each time I closed the air halfway, the fire intensified and the intake velocity increased. It's hard to tell through the bottom opening because the camera sensor blows out the highlights beyond a certain level, but the opening at the top shows how the fire got more intense with each reduction in the opening.

That doesn't mean it's getting much less air, it's just coming into the stove at a much higher velocity. You can hear it whistle real hard at a certain point, and that seems to be the sweet spot. The increased velocity creates a lot of turbulence inside the box, which means better gas mixing and much cleaner combustion with less excess air. At a smaller opening (about 3/8" here), you can take a pinch of fine ash and sprinkle it it a few inches away from the inlet and watch it arc into the stove from the pull of the draft. Try it, it's fun.

Like Precaud, my stove seemed to like smaller wood. 4" was a big split for me. Once I got it going, though, it would burn anything I could fit through the door. A very athletic little stove.
 

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GREAT reply BK! Pics really help! And I too have the stove going to an 8X8 tile-lined flue. So I think it's doing exactly what you mentioned - getting hot and creating some real draw. I have heard that 'whistle' and know exactly what you're talking about! I'll definitely take a pinch of ash and watch it get sucked in. I'm going out at lunch with flue damper on the brain and I hope to come back with one. Then I'll install it tonight and give another fire a shot; if I could only buy 'real' seasoned wood.
 
brianbeech said:
I'm going out at lunch with flue damper on the brain and I hope to come back with one. Then I'll install it tonight and give another fire a shot.

Before you do, what size pipe are you running to the chimney? I ran a 5'' to 6" adapter right at the stove, then into 7" pipe at the thimble. In retrospect, I think it might have been a lot better to keep it at 5" all the way to the thimble, then go up in size. This creates a long restriction that isn't much bigger than the hole in the damper. I couldn't find 5" pipe at the time I installed the stove, and was happy with the extra heat that the 6" pipe threw off so I left it like that. That was back in the days when I didn't really understand how draft worked and I thought that any heat going up the chimney was a total waste.
 
Battenkiller said:
Before you do, what size pipe are you running to the chimney? I ran a 5'' to 6" adapter right at the stove, then into 7" pipe at the thimble. In retrospect, I think it might have been a lot better to keep it at 5" all the way to the thimble, then go up in size. This creates a long restriction that isn't much bigger than the hole in the damper. I couldn't find 5" pipe at the time I installed the stove, and was happy with the extra heat that the 6" pipe threw off so I left it like that. That was back in the days when I didn't really understand how draft worked and I thought that any heat going up the chimney was a total waste.

I've got 5" all the way to the flue. I'm just hoping I can find a 5" flue damper - online I see 6" and 8" readily available, but not 5".
 
Well, there goes that theory. :lol:

Yeah, 5" might be real hard to find locally. If you can't, I wouldn't give discouraged with the install you have, but you do need to get better wood. The 118 will eat greener wood when you get a good fire going, but it really can't hold the big coal bed that you need to do so. You need to open the air to burn that stuff, and as you've seen, the design works better stopped down. Small, intense fires and more frequent refills (every 2-3 hours) is how I eventually learned to burn mine, but you can get a good overnight burn with one or two good size splits of well-dried wood.

I am a bit surprised to see your temps are that low with a decent fire in the box. Your wood, although it may not be ideal, seems to have no problem burning with a nice, active flame.

Another thing... The weak link of this design is the side baffles. You'll go through them faster than you'll want to if you burn real hot. They start to oxidize in the middle at the hottest spot in the stove, then they continue to warp, crack and burn away until they have to be replaced. Bank your ashes well up along the bottom on each side. That will protect them and they will last a lot longer.
 
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