Jotul 400 cast iron vs. competitors

[Phillyman]

HI All,

Yes, be warned this is one of those posts asking advice on what to buy! Dreaded longer post as well

Some background, we have lived in our house for 20 years and it came with a wood burning stove. The resolute from Vermont Casting has served us extremely well. We overheated a couple of times (we did not even realize this was possible) and it got damaged. This should also tell you that we have almost no knowledge in the field and will have professionals do all the work.

We have electric air (heat pump). Towards the evening I start the stove around 5 PM (heat more or less off all day in that zone), by six when I add additional logs it is starting to warm up, by six thirty it is nice and toasty in the areas we like to heat with the stove. I mention this since it is very difficult for me to judge size but we have been pleased with our resolute and do not feel the need for a bigger stove. We also like that it is top loading (all we ever had had) and the flat surface on top is nice to have if we need to boil a pot of water in a pinch (loss of power)

Based on this forum I've learned that for awhile Vermont Castings had quality issues and some stores in the area are reluctant to sell them but that they have improved over the last couple of years.

We've looked around and the Jotul F400 Castine seems like a popular choice and we like the "glass door" . It does not seem to have the top loading feature but what I have been able to learn is that toploading seems reserved for larger units.

I would like to know if people have other recommendations from other brands (maybe toploading) and if the Vermont Castings are back in terms of quality and we should give them another look. In terms of style... We do not have strong opinions one way or another.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Again we have no strong thoughts/feelings either way and are only "set in our ways". That is why we are looking at cast iron wood burners of roughly this type. As for pricing. No one wants to pay more than they have to but if we have to bite the bullet we would rather spend more now than have issues down the road.

I'm sure there is crucial information missing. Please feel free to ask and I'll try to give input. Also "dumb question". Does it in the end come down to look? I struggle with how to pick one brand over another and wonder if they are "all the same" (greatly simplified) .

Thank you for your input,

Phillyman

 

[begreen]

The original Resolute was a great stove. It provided reliable thermostatically regulated heat for smaller homes. We loved ours and were sad to sell it when we moved. We've also had the Castine. This is a very good looking stove and a respectable heater. Given your burning pattern it would do the job and you will love the great fireview. And it is a simpler stove with less to go wrong. It does like good draft. What is the flue setup here? How large an area is the stove heating?

There are many other options that are very good burning stoves. In straight cast iron take a look at the Hearthsone Shelburne and Hampton H300. Also consider a cast iron jacketed steel stove like the Quadrafire Explorer II, Pacific Energy T5, Jotul F45, & Enviro Boston 1200.

 

[Phillyman]

Thank you begreen so much for your feedback. Hmmm Flue setup; This will be unhelpful. It is a straight indoor 20ft (freestanding away from wall) chimney which merges in a black box at the top. It merges into a straight pipe about 3 feet tall outside of the roof. As for room size I would say less than 1000 sqft. I mainly heat one very HIGH room. Since it is a fairly open floor plan after about two hours two other rooms are comfortable, but we only really need the family room to be warm for the whole evening. Draft does not seem to be an issue with the resolute. I like the simple stove part. What is the difference/advantage of straight cast iron compared to jacketed steel?

Thanks again, I'll continue my research. Jotul does seem to be a solid brand so I'm leaning towards them.

 

[begreen]

The flue sounds very good. It shouldn't have draft problems. Is it double-wall stove pipe or single-wall?

Straight cast iron stove will radiate more heat from the front and sides. They tend to have higher clearances because of this. In a big space that takes a long time to heat this radiant heat can be desirable. Cast iron stoves are either gasketed or cemented at the seams. Over time (may 20+ yrs) the cement in seams can start to break down and the stove needs a recementing.

Cast-iron jacketed stoves have a welded steel stove at heart. The jacket hangs off of the steel body with a small air gap. This acts as a buffer for the intense heat coming from the steel body. It softens the heat and stores it, kind of like a flywheel. As the fire dies down the cast iron jacket continues to release heat. This has the effect of a little slower warmup, but also less temperature swing in the room through the fire cycles and longer warmth from the stove. These stoves typically have lower clearances for installation than cast iron stoves.

All brands mentioned are 'solid brands'. You wouldn't go wrong with any of them. Is there a ceiling fan in the room? That is essential to helping move the heat that will stratify at the top of a tall room.

Another thing to consider is stove depth. The Castine's firebox is shallow and this makes it primarily an E/W loader. That is the firebox is wider than deep. Several of the cast jacketed stoves have a more square firebox. This makes the stove deeper, but has the advantage of being loaded N/S which prevents logs from rolling up against the glass, so it can be loaded more fully.

 

[Phillyman]

Hi, thank you for the information I'll attach some pictures if that helps. I also measured the hearth and it is 55X40 I would guess the single wall stove pipe but purely a guess. No we do not have a ceiling fan and it would be almost impossible to mount (I've looked into it). Yes it would do a better job of distributing the heat but with the open floor plan and the other rooms being about 3 feet up from the room where the fireplace is. We actually get a fairly good distribution. It just takes a bit of time ;-)

There is so much to consider. Who knew that fireplaces were that different. I foolishly assumed but a cast iron and find a design you like. DONE -->
NOPE --> I appreciate the insight into this world.

Philly

 

[begreen]

Not sure but that looks like ventilated double-wall stove pipe that got too hot at one point. Has there been a chimney fire in this system?

 

[Phillyman]

I'll add a last wrinkle. I revisited the Vermont Casting and like their Encore model. It has the top load and glass etc. It seems to fit what I like. I'll still research and ask the stores about the different materials and what other brand they recommend but just based on looks/size the two that seem to stand out are the Jotul 400 or the Vermont Casting Encore.

I'm a bit gun shy after reading the bad reviews/customer service for the Vermont ones. Has that been sorted out? Do people like the "newer" Encores in terms of craftmanship etc?

Last but not least I like one big door that the Jotul has over the split door Vermont model. Is there a technical reason to prefer one over the other? Off to the Hearthstone and Hampton pages for more research.

Thanks for the reading and hand holding,
Philly

 

[Phillyman]

CHIMNEY FIRE ! Now you are scaring me ;-) . Not to my knowledge, but I made the thing glow years ago and did not know that was a dangerous and bad situation. So clearly I misused it, could it be that I had one and did not even know it? Philly

 

[EbS-P]

Hi,

I’m new here but just wanted to add my insight. We installed an F400 one month ago. Reasons for choosing it over the others was it’s looks and simplicity and size. We hearth mounted inside the 42x29 fireplace. My father-in-law has one that I have run and liked it. Ash removal is easy.

I started looking at the F400, decided I wanted white/cream finish, and didn’t want to mess with QuardraFire burn controls. I kept looking for a couple more weeks and didn’t find anything I liked more. The down side, as mentioned, is the small fire box. I would not choose this stove to heat a small house without backup heat. It would do 1000 sq ft fine, but it’s not an all night burning stove. If I leave a good ash layer I can restart from coals after 6-8 hours.

I hope this info from someone who just made this purchase is helpful. I’m happy to answer any other questions.

Evan

 

[begreen]

CHIMNEY FIRE ! Now you are scaring me ;-) . Not to my knowledge, but I made the thing glow years ago and did not know that was a dangerous and bad situation. So clearly I misused it, could it be that I had one and did not even know it? Philly

Yes that may have done it. The paint can lose it's bond it the stove pipe gets too hot.

 

[mar13]

Measuring your clearances (distance to back wall and hearth dimensions) and then studying clearance requirements of each stove (posted in their online installation manuals) may help you narrow your choices. It sure did in my personal stove hunt.

 

[dtrykow]

What is actually cast iron with the Jotul? So the firebox is welded steel?. You have firebrick, the bottom pan is cast iron. The outside surround is cast iron.
Thanks, Dave T.

 

[begreen]

What is actually cast iron with the Jotul? So the firebox is welded steel?. You have firebrick, the bottom pan is cast iron. The outside surround is cast iron.
Thanks, Dave T.

That would depend on the model of the stove. The F100, F3CB, F400, F500, & F600 are all full cast iron stove construction. The welded steel fireboxes are on the contemporary stoves, inserts and the F45, F50, & F55 series.