Jotul F 3 CB, Napoleon 1100, Englander 13-NC - Recommendations?

[cycloxer]

I am considering three different stoves to provide secondary heat for my 1,100 sq. ft. upstairs of my split level. I am considering the Jotul F3 CB, the Napoleon 1100, and the Englander 13-NC. This would be a secondary heating unit that I would use occasionally in the evenings and on weekends to supplement my natural gas baseboard heating system. My house was built in 1970, has cathedral ceilings, and I do have insulation in the walls and R-22 in the roof.

I have a large, raised hearth fireplace with a 46"x35" opening and 21" depth. I have burnt plenty of cord wood in the past and you can really build a massive, beautiful fire. Alas, it is really a waste of wood. I considered a fireplace insert, but the hearth opening is so large that a small-medium size stove can fit right in there with no clearance issues and seems like a better choice.

I like the design and look of the Jotul, though I am a bit concerned that this stove is too small. The Jotul F400 is an obvious choice, but it is out of the budget. The Napoleon seems like a good stove and it gets pretty good reviews on this site. I like the price of the Englander and it seems to be a very capable heater, though the aesthetics are not as refined. I also considered a Drolet, though they do not seem to be as popular around here.

Any thoughts?

 

[Jags]

Wow - you have named 3 very good choices. I would ask this back: is your layout fairly open and do you expect to have carry over heat to other parts of the house? If you do, I would agree that the Jotul is probably on the small side and I think you will find the 13-NC the heating powerhouse of your 3 choices. The Napoleon is also rated at 600 - 1500 sqft with a 1.7 cu. ft firebox, which is similar in heating capability to the 13-NC, just a half a step smaller.

 

[BrotherBart]

The Napoleon 1100 would give you the cast iron look with a larger firebox than the F3. That and it has a blower option that the Jotul does not have.

For heating I think it is between the 13-NC and the Nap. With the decision being in the eyes and the checkbook of the beholder. Either one will make you a good stove.

 

[cycloxer]

My layout is quite open. The hearth is in the middle of a combined living/dining room that is 14' deep x 32' long. The raised hearth brick is 7' wide, extends into the room 20" and the exposed brick face runs to the ceiling. (On the other side is my garage, so my chimney is semi-insulated from the outside.) I plan to run a 6" liner up the flue as the flue is much too big for a good draft (I think it is 9"x16"). The ceilings are 12-13' high cathedral throughout the entire upstairs (which is 32' x 36'). There are two passageways from the living/dining to the kitchen and hallway which are 3' wide and open to the ceiling. i do have a fair amount of glass including two glass sliders and one cathedral glass window. When I used to build fires I could easily get the temperature at the thermostat located in the hallway into the 70's and even 80 with a roaring fire. Really I think any of those stoves will supply ample heat. The one bedroom on the first floor will be a bit cold, but I am okay with that as my intent is not to use this as a primary heat source.

I like all three of the stoves, but the firebox of the F 3 CB at a little over 1 cubic foot seems quite small. Remember, I am transitioning from am open hearth where I could burn 3' logs if I wanted, so the concept of these smaller stoves is a bit daunting. I typically cut and split most of my wood around 18", so that is a concern too. Obviously I could address that going forward.

I really like building wood fires and when they are burning, they do provide plenty of heat. I imagine all of my losses are occuring after the fire dies down when I have to leave the damper open overnight. I considered installing glass doors, but they only add about 10% efficiency and given my fireplace size would cost about the same as one of these stoves. I would probably get 4X as much heat out of a wood stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

For any of the three stoves you listed you will be cutting the wood to sixteen inches. Ads say 18" but you have to grease the ends of the splits and use a hammer to get that long a split into them.

When you go stove shopping take some split wood with you. Good for comparisions and will shock the heck out of the sales person. Take three or four pieces of each of various lengths. 16", 17" and 18".

 

[cycloxer]

Gotcha. So just because the capacity is 18", that doesn't mean it is practical. So if I cut to 16" and split smaller pieces, I will be better off? If that is the case, then it sounds like the 3 CB is way too small for my requirements. I measured a bunch of my logs and they ranged from 14" to 20". Of course, i could be more diligent in the future to cut to 16".

 

[fossil]

...I really like building wood fires and when they are burning, they do provide plenty of heat. I imagine all of my losses are occuring after the fire dies down when I have to leave the damper open overnight.

I understand what you're saying, I used to be able to radiate us right out of our downstairs family room with a good fire going in an open fireplace...but that's the rub...it's all just the radiation into the room. The convection losses straight up the chimney from an open fireplace are tremendous. A freestanding woodstove is a much more efficient use of your wood, as a great deal more of the energy released through combustion of the fuel is realized as heat gain to the living space as compared to the open fireplace. But then, since you're here on this forum, I s'pose I'm just preaching to the choir. I'm sure you'll be quite pleased when you experience how much less wood you're burning for the same comfort level you've achieved in the past. Welcome, and have fun! Rick

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep. The thinner splits let you pack more into the firebox. With the F3 you are going to be reloading it every couple of hours to keep a burn going or reloading on coals around three yours.

Mine is in my office and only used during the day so it doesn't matter much. At least until I get around to selling the thing and getting a steel stove in here.

 

[Jags]

Yep, the F3 is a little fella. The others sound like they will fit the bill. One thing to consider that you really didn't have with an open fire is the ability to control the fire. With the 1100 or the 13-NC you will be able to dial it down a bit and still yield a longer burn. Its not a situation that you should "over size" a stove, but do take this into consideration when you are looking at cubic ft capacity.

 

[bluefrier]

Ads say 18" but you have to grease the ends of the splits and use a hammer to get that long a split into them.

When you go stove shopping take some split wood with you. Good for comparisions and will shock the heck out of the sales person. Take three or four pieces of each of various lengths. 16", 17" and 18".

The NC13 has a firebox width of 20 inches so you could easily fit 18" splits. The firebox is about 11 inches deep so you could forget about N/S loading.
The F3 CB would probably frustrate you if you are used to a bigger stove or open fireplace.
Hope this helps

 

[cycloxer]

I'm leaning towards the Englander 13. My house is a 70's contemporary with dark wood trim. Flat black and wrought iron tend to go well with the decor. So the simple design of the Englander will work. I also like the very clean of the Drolet Eldorado. While I find the cast stoves from Jotul and VT Castings to be remarkably beautiful, they tend to look best in colonial's.

Can you remove the brass window trim and lip from the Englander stove? I'd prefer an all black stove. I am not crazy about the brass. Worse case I could paint it or switch to the Nickel.

I also just measured my splits. They average 17", so I think I am all set there.

 

[bluefrier]

Can you remove the brass window trim and lip from the Englander stove? I'd prefer an all black stove. I am not crazy about the brass. Worse case I could paint it or switch to the Nickel.

I also just measured my splits. They average 17", so I think I am all set there.

The lip trims (top and bottom) are removable. The door trim is built on.

 

[BrotherBart]

The top lip trim and the window trim on my 30-NC were self removing. The second time they popped off on the hearth I never put them back. I think is an automatic feature thing or something.

 

[cycloxer]

Bluefrier - I just looked at your signature picture. That is the same type of installation I am considering. It looks very clean and simple. Does the stove still radiate enough heat even though it is inside the hearth? Given that my fireplace is 46" wide x 35" tall, I'd still have about 10" all around the stove with it tucked inside. I am hoping this will be enough to protect my mantle as well. Worst case I can fabricate a simple shield.

Also, Englander offers a nickel door trim, so it must be removable. I am not sure if it is a clean look under the trim, However, when I look at their site it looks like the 12-FP utilizes the same door, simply without the trim. It certainly looks that way from the pictures and the dimensions are the same.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I'm leaning towards the Englander 13. My house is a 70's contemporary with dark wood trim. Flat black and wrought iron tend to go well with the decor. So the simple design of the Englander will work. I also like the very clean of the Drolet Eldorado. While I find the cast stoves from Jotul and VT Castings to be remarkably beautiful, they tend to look best in colonial's.

Can you remove the brass window trim and lip from the Englander stove? I'd prefer an all black stove. I am not crazy about the brass. Worse case I could paint it or switch to the Nickel.I also just measured my splits. They average 17", so I think I am all set there.

yes the trimwork is easily removed, there is an adhesive holding the window trim on which isnt that big a deal to get off, but the lip trim just snaps into place and slips right off easily. for what its worth not every chain carries the 13 with trim as a stock item some such as ace hardware and sutherland lumber order the units with no trim other than the brass spring handle. ask your local ace or true value dealer for pricing , he can get dropship from the ace/tv warehouse , which allows him to be competitive with the big box guys. hope this helps, and feel free to ask me any technical questions you might have on the 13 or any other units in our product line

 

[Corie]

FYI, when we list 18" as the max log size in the 13NC, we are being very generous. The interior of the firebox is actually about 20.0" inches wide, so 18" splits fit with no problem. I generally cut my splits between 18 and 20 inches (yes, I burn a 13NC in my house).

 

[bluefrier]

Bluefrier - I just looked at your signature picture. That is the same type of installation I am considering. It looks very clean and simple. Does the stove still radiate enough heat even though it is inside the hearth?

Yes the stove does radiate enough heat for my specific application. Keep in mind that if you are in a very cold climate and you are trying to heat your entire house this type of installation might not suite you. I don't even use a blower and I am still happy with the stove exept for really cold days the other rooms take a while to warm up. I mostly use my stove on evenings and weekends like you are planning to do. I would recommend a blower as this would improve overall efficiency.
see my thread @ https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/19629/