Jotul F3 installation question

[godblsmnymkr]

howdy guys
i want to install a wood burning stove and run the flue pipe up my old wood burning masonry fireplace(very tall masonry up the high ceiling) that is currently unused. potentially going to buy a Jotul F3 since my fireplace is small. the existing firebox opening is only 22" high. with short legs installed on the Jotul, its 20" 1/4 high to the middle of the rear exit so thats only 2" difference. the other issue that will make installation tight is my raised built in Hearth is only 19" deep while the space between the front and back legs is 13".
would i have to use a rigid elbow pipe coming off the Jotul to make the connection to the flexi chimney liner pipe through the old fireplace or can i flexline right on to the Jotul unit? can i make this work?
thanks so much for the advice!

 

[begreen]

Sounds like it needs a 90º flex to crimp elbow. This is the fitting for the transition.
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/adjustable-elbow-for-flexible-liners.php

However, if the centerline of the flue outlet is 20 1/4", then the top will be 23 1/4". How will that fit under a 22" lintel?

Have you considered an insert instead of a freestanding stove? That would open up options and perhaps provide a larger firebox for longer fires and more heat. An insert might also solve the hearth issue.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

tyvm for the reply begreen!
I'll preface this with the fact I'm a noob who only started doing research in the last week on wood stove installs.

if i used the 90degree elbow connected to the stove with the elbow pointed down and then connected to the flex chimney liner, would that work? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/80516/J-Tul-F-3.html?page=2#manual
according the the units manual, the stove is about 15" deep so that would leave me approx 4" between the flue hook up and the front of the firebox opening. not sure if thats enough space.

to install a wood stove insert, i would have to rip out the old fireplace box which i don't know how to do. the existing firebox is only 20" wide inside. i dont know if there are any insert that small to fit in. i live on an island you have to take a ferry to, and tradespeople charge you an arm and a leg to come out here. i got a quote by one of the guys that come out and it was $950 to install a wood stove insert.

the other option is to build out my hearth 12" or so to make more room for a free standing stove.
thanks guys

 

[begreen]

to install a wood stove insert, i would have to rip out the old fireplace box which i don't know how to do.

Is this a Zero Clearance fireplace with a metal chimney?

if i used the 90degree elbow connected to the stove with the elbow pointed down and then connected to the flex chimney liner, would that work?

No, smoke will not go downhill.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

After googling what that meant, I'm pretty sure it's zero clearance. It's a metal firebox within a tall masonry chimney.

 

[begreen]

A metal firebox with a masonry chimney sounds like it may not be a zero clearance fireplace but a heatform fireplace instead. That's a different animal with more options. You would not have to rip out the metal if this was the case. Post a picture or two of the setup so we can verify.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

dang, I got a little confused. above the firebox and in the house its a stone facade attached to a big tall piece of wood with a metal chimney inside . i'll post a pic, i should have done so already.
tyvm for the help.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

here it is. there's the old gas freestanding gas fireplace i took out. the previous owners had to cut into the metal fireplace box at the top of the opening about 1/2 " to fit the flue pipe into that fireplace. there's still about 1/2" that could be cut before you would hit a big metal bar that goes horizontal across the fireplace box opening.

from bottom of the box opening to the top of the opening is only 16". its only 22" wide inside the box and thats if i took the what looks to be removable 1 piece of brick lining the sides.
i watched a vid on youtube of a fireplace removal like mine and it looked like hell. i would much prefer to leave it in place.

is there any sort of stove i can make work in this small box? whats the shortest rear flue stove out there?

after further thought, an insert stove is probably a bad idea since they are 400lbs + and i have a very difficult long staircase to get into the house. a freestanding stove weight would at least be manageable.

thanks

 

[godblsmnymkr]

Not sure how feasible this is, but I could potentially drop the hearth down to floor level and that would give me 6" more height wise and I could put this oven in.
Issue would be is that still up to code?
Generally speaking how much non combustible surface area do you need around the freestanding stove?
Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Not sure how feasible this is, but I could potentially drop the hearth down to floor level and that would give me 6" more height wise and I could put this oven in.
Issue would be is that still up to code?
Generally speaking how much non combustible surface area do you need around the freestanding stove?
Thanks!

Might be possible. Clearances are stove specific and not general unless for an unlisted stove. Then they are 36" all around. If you are talking a Jotul F3CB, the clearance requirements are in the manual which is on Jotul's website.

In order to connect the stove will need an insulated liner. What is the inside diameter of the metal flue on this chimney?

Also, what is in the back of the fireplace? It's hard to tell from the photograph. Has the fireback been removed too? If so, this installation may not be possible.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

fireback as in the removable Iron or Steel plate you put in the back of your fireplace? no there isn't one there.
the structure of the box is intact. what you see is a garbage bag full of insulation i have stuffed up the chimney pipe to keep the cold out and i have the ash grate flipped up a bit.

my pipe is 7" and i believe the jotul is 6".

 

[godblsmnymkr]

btw, i contacted a local fireplace door maker, and they said i need cast iron doors on it if i were to just keep it as a regular fireplace to burn wood in.
very annoying.

 

[begreen]

I don't want to feed you bad information. It's difficult to judge the suitability remotely to be sure you are safe with this fireplace. There should be more than bare metal on the inside if this is a ZC fireplace. Before proceeding I would bring in a WETT certified sweep to examine the fireplace and flue. One issue that shows up is the chimney diameter. The 6" liner should be insulated unless there is class A chimney pipe already on the fireplace. If it is not class A chimney then an insulated liner will not fit because the insulation makes the OD about 8". There is a preinsulated liner made by DuraVent that is 6 5/8" but that may not clear if there are screws protruding into the chimney at every joint. A certified sweep can determine the type of chimney pipe, fireplace intergrity and possible options.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

Thanks for the reply!

There is brick that lines the inside of the fire place on all sides about 6" high. Not sure if that is enough.
I had a WETT sweep in here and he said the box was good to go as soon as I put doors on it.

Thanks for the info about the pipe. I need to look into that.

I don't want to feed you bad information. It's difficult to judge the suitability remotely to be sure you are safe with this fireplace. There should be more than bare metal on the inside if this is a ZC fireplace. Before proceeding I would bring in a WETT certified sweep to examine the fireplace and flue. One issue that shows up is the chimney diameter. The 6" liner should be insulated unless there is class A chimney pipe already on the fireplace. If it is not class A chimney then an insulated liner will not fit because the insulation makes the OD about 8". There is a preinsulated liner made by DuraVent that is 6 5/8" but that may not clear if there are screws protruding into the chimney at every joint. A certified sweep can determine the type of chimney pipe, fireplace intergrity and possible options.

 

[begreen]

OK, great. I am glad that you had the WETT sweep in. That was a good move. It's hard to determine safety visually sometimes. Ask the sweep about the chimney type on the fireplace. Ask if it is class A 2100ºHT chimney pipe. Chimney pipe varies on ZCs from air cooled to partially insulated to fully insulated depending on the manufacturer and model. Do you know the make and model of your fireplace?

 

[godblsmnymkr]

thanks so much for all the help begreen , i really appreciate it.

i was actually just gonna ask where i would look for the make and model of the fireplace?
do you have any thoughts on the local fireplace door maker saying i need cast iron doors because normal steel doors would warp on my box?

my WETT sweep said he's never seen metal doors warp because they have glass.
very confused here....

 

[begreen]

Fireplace doors are made of different metals, steel being most common.
http://www.stollfireplace.com/manufactured/zcGlassDoors

The fireplace make/model is often on a tag somewhere in the door frame opening.

 

[bholler]

thanks so much for all the help begreen , i really appreciate it.

i was actually just gonna ask where i would look for the make and model of the fireplace?
do you have any thoughts on the local fireplace door maker saying i need cast iron doors because normal steel doors would warp on my box?

my WETT sweep said he's never seen metal doors warp because they have glass.
very confused here....

You can't put any old doors on your fireplace they need to be the doors designed to go on your fireplace. Also any part of the box that was cut modified or removed needs to be replaced.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

thanks guys.
I called the door maker again to confirm what he was talking about, and they were concerned that the tempered glass in their 3/16" steel doors would shatter if the fire was operated with the doors closed, but this is common knowledge.
i have NO idea where to get wrought Iron doors custom made in canada after much googling. that also sound extremely expensive. i really would prefer to do the wood stove instead for that cost.

@begreen I remeasured my chimney pipe and its actually 8" not 7.
whats the easiest way to tell if my pipe is "class A"? go on my roof and look to see if its a thick insulated pipe?
thanks!

 

[bholler]

thanks guys.
I called the door maker again to confirm what he was talking about, and they were concerned that the tempered glass in their 3/16" steel doors would shatter if the fire was operated with the doors closed, but this is common knowledge.
i have NO idea where to get wrought Iron doors custom made in canada after much googling. that also sound extremely expensive. i really would prefer to do the wood stove instead for that cost.

@begreen I remeasured my chimney pipe and its actually 8" not 7.
whats the easiest way to tell if my pipe is "class A"? go on my roof and look to see if its a thick insulated pipe?
thanks!

Again custom doors are not an option they would need to be doors from the manufacturer of you fireplace meant to go on it.

 

[begreen]

@begreen I remeasured my chimney pipe and its actually 8" not 7.
whats the easiest way to tell if my pipe is "class A"? go on my roof and look to see if its a thick insulated pipe?
thanks!

Contact the WETT sweep that inspected the fireplace. They should have the chimney type on record.

 

[godblsmnymkr]

thanks @bholler understood
@begreen will doo

 

[godblsmnymkr]

is there a thread on this forum that shows where to find the make of my fireplace? there's a silver metal box behind my fireplace that might be a good bet. not sure about finding anything in the actual firebox. i did some googling on how to find it but nothing for a wood burning fireplace

 

[godblsmnymkr]

hey guys. thanks again for all the help. i've learned a lot trying to figure out what to do with my old fireplace. can you guys tell me what the parts of the fireplace circled in red are? i think the bottom sliding knobs are to control the air intake?
the top piece circled in red was cut in the middle to install an exhaust hose for a gas fireplace by the previous owner.
thanks so much!

 

[bholler]

One is air control for sure the other may be outside air we really can't say without knowing the model of the fireplace. And honestly if it has been cut up it is no longer suitable for use in anyway.