Jotul F3CB - Yes, I know I've asked before.

[Corie]

Well grandpa is down at my house right now, and I just showed him the F3CB and told him its one of the old stoves on the market that will line up with the chimney in his house. He seemed fairly sold on the idea, so I'm going to keep my eyes open for a used one that I can refurbish and install for him, as long as he is ok with it. I know he's been burning the Little Moe (All Nighter) for 25 years, but its a dirty old stove, with no glass window and no ash pan and I think that's getting a little hard for him. Plus I can't be there to clean the chimney as much as it needs to be done and I worry that he's going to have a serious chimney fire sometime.

Here's the question - Do you think it will be good for him?

Here's the situation - 770 sq. ft. house, WELL insulated, great windows, this house is TIGHT! My grandfather designed and built it and it is perfect for wood heat. He's retired and is around all day. Will this stove be good enough for him? He lives in Downsville, NY so it gets cold. He's up obscenely early everyday, so he really needs about 6 hours of overnight burn, as long as coals are left. He usually goes to bed at 9pm and is up at least once during the night and then usually gets up for good around 3:30/4 AM. I think this stove would be perfect for him, but I know that there are some seasoned F3CB burners on the board and I just wanted to ask (again) what you think.


Thanks guys!

 

[wahoowad]

It seems the right size for that space but I can't recommend it. It only seems suited for 'supplemental heaters' like myself. 2 or 3 hours after reload you are on the low side of your burn cycle. I'm betting he doesn't want to fool with it - just load it and go do something else for that part of the day.

Sure, I'm getting some good heat out of mine and it is keeping the heat pump from cycling on/off but I have to feed it a lot with it's small firebox and short burn cycle. I'm OK with that because I'm still fascinated by it and all the woodheating stuff I'm learning, but eventually I'll tire of that and just want max heat with minimal effort. He might get a bad opinion of these newfangled EPA stoves when he sees how much air they let in and how quickly it burns up the wood.

 

[begreen]

Corie, the F3CB is a great, solid, small stove and quite a good looker. There are some caveats. First it has a small firebox. Burns longer than 3 hrs putting out meaningful heat are not common. Second caveat is that you have to really pack the stove carefully and there is a risk of a log rolling out when you do this. If you go to stoke the fire and this happens, it may take some quick thinking. Third caveat, and perhaps this was my stove, the startup air intake control was poorly designed. It is on the face of the door, admits a meager amount of startup air, and is very stiff. However, lest I sound too negative, there are a lot of positives about the stove as well. It takes an 18" log, which is a blessing, it burns quite cleanly, it's easy to operate and Jotul's enamel finish seems to be as tough as it is beautiful.

In this situation, do you think he could adjust to a cat stove? I'm thinking the Intrepid based on what you've indicated. Or, how long will an Englander 12-FP burn? And last, have you considered a PE Vista or small Napoleon?

 

[wahoowad]

Corie,

Rethinking your Dad's patterns, yes the F3CB would work for his daily schedule. And it would probably work well in terms of heat output for that sized space. I always have coals in the morning for restart, and even have a pretty warm stove if I get a full load into it by 10 PM. So, you are right to consider it as a potential candidate. I just don't know how well the others compare in terms of burn time.

I'll keep an eye out for a used one up here in Charlottesville. I watch Craigslist fairly frequently.

 

[myzamboni]

The key to having useful coals in the morning, I've found, is to leave a lot of ash in the stove. The past 2 nights I've loaded the box with 2 big splits at 10 pm and have been able to stoke off the coals the next morning at 7:30. Since your grandpa is up earlier than this he should not have an issue. This stove is ridiculously easy to operate.

 

[wahoowad]

I've never had another stove but this little stove sure seems to have a short burn cycle. Others have mentioned it too. And it seems to cool down fast, hence a burn cycle that seems to operate in a wide temp range. Here's how mine goes:

(assuming I've been operating it and is up to temp)
- 300 degrees and time to reload;
- reload with open air and jump back to 550;
- damper and sustain reburn at 600 for 1.5 hours;
- reburn begins tapering off and temps drop into 400-500 range;
- stove full of full logs of coals, have to open air to help burn coals and keep it from cooling off;
- coals burning down and approaching 300 again, time to reload.

My problem is this involves a number of adjustments for such a short (3 hour) burn cycle. I spend all my time in this family room (TV, computer) so I'm here to do it. I would say it is a good stove if you will be around it a bit and/or are a pyromaniac like me and like to watch it burn. Probably not good if you will have it in a basement or other non-primary family space.

 

[myzamboni]

Similar but looks like my burn times are longer:

300 degrees and time to reload;
- reload with open air and jump back to 550;
- damper all the way down and sustain reburn at 500 for 2.5 hours;
- reburn begins tapering off and temps drop into 400-500 range;
- stove full of full logs of coals, don't have to open air very much to help burn coals and keep it from cooling off;
- coals burning down and approaching 300 again, time to reload.

Mine is top exit, no offsets/turns and the pipe is inside the house envelope.

It almost looks like you have too much draft and thus the higher temps/shorter burn cycles.

 

[begreen]

I generally had to run the stove in the 600-650 range to heat the house. That is why I got the shorter burns. I suspect Corie's grandpa will need to run it at the same temps during peak winter in NY.

 

[BrotherBart]

If you are thinking about buying a Jotul I wouldn't mention it to Ron in the staff meeting.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

too late i got me some bribery info now <chuckle>

just kidding, does it need a rear flue? or is the thimble just too low for our units? i do have this 24-ac sitting here, it can rear flue, but its probably too much stove come to think of it 2Ksq ft rated

 

[begreen]

What's the burn time on a 12-FP Mike?

Edit: After Mike's great explanation that the 12-FP is a 35/1 stove, I guess that should be the 13-NC.

 

[Corie]

Yeah, the problem with the installation is the rear flue, otherwise he'd already have a 13NC

He currently has an All Night, which was rear flue, going straight through the wall and into a tee. The height from the floor to the centerline of the horizontal pipe is 22.5" which is why I am so limited.

From the sounds of what everyone said though, the short burn times wouldn't be a problem, but what would be is the need to carefully load the stove and avoid logs rolling out. Poppie is 75 and his eye sight isn't great AND he has rheumatoid arthritis, so he really needs a north-south burner, the more I think about it. Or a top loader I guess. Catalytic combustion is going to be too much; I know he could figure it out and probably would love it once he did, he'd be frustrated to try and learn something new when he's been so used to his single air control stove.


Hrmmm........... Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

 

[begreen]

Yeah, when are you steel stove guys gonna start making rear exit stoves ;-).

I also thought about a Jotul 602 or even the 118. But it might overheat him on a few nights. Operation is simple though. And with some skill you can get a 2-3 hr burn with the 602.

 

[Gooserider]

I don't get why everyone thinks cats are so hard to operate? I have two controls - one binary (on or off, no middle) lever on the damper, and one air control lever... My old smoke dragon with a stack damper and TWO inlet spin dampers was far more complex, and required far more fiddling to make work.

For whatever it's worth, my Encore rear exit is about 22-23" from the floor to the center of the flue, although I think it gives out to much heat for the space described. I think the Intrepid cat is about the same height. I get the same sort of burn-times from it that Elk used to claim, so I figure he was probably right in claiming 6-8 hours out of the Intrepid. I don't know what kind of burn times Gramps was getting out of his Little Moe, but All-Nighter used to brag about their burn times, so I suspect probably pretty good ones.

I would not want to stick him with a stove that gave less time than the one he has - that would get me far more upset than having to learn how to use one more binary lever...

Gooserider

 

[Corie]

Believe me, I don't think cat stoves are hard to operate at all. In fact I love them and if we made one, I'd be burning that. Unfortunately poppie is getting up there and I know he wouldn't want to learn all the gadgetry of a cat stove - Bypass gate, air control, its just too much for him. He likes the set it and forget it thing. He has the little Moe, so doesn't need a lot of stove. But I'd like to get something with the glass door, north-south loading and comparable or BETTER in burn time and heat output. I'm trying to get something rolling here that will work for him, but right now the focus is pellet stoves.

 

[precaud]

But I'd like to get something with the glass door, north-south loading and comparable or BETTER in burn time and heat output.

I was looking for just that combo (with rear vent capability) last year and came up empty. The closest I could find is the Quad 2100 but it's not rear vented. How about that VC Aspen that you rebuilt?

 

[Corie]

Aspen was just too tiny for him, and would barely take 16" splits. He has about 10 cords on the ground in 18" lengths and the chances of him cutting them down is not too good.


Also, the Aspen, was sold. Mom got tired of me storing it in her garage. I'd really like to come up with something for him, but the options sure are sparse.

 

[begreen]

So how would a 13NC work out Corie?

 

[Corie]

Same rear frue problem. The stove has to be rear vent and 22.5" to the centerline of the stack from the ground. There's no way around it. The chimley is where the chimley is.

 

[begreen]

Yes, you already said that, pardon my forgetfulness. Quad Yosemite?

 

[Corie]

Oh really?

 

[Corie]

Ok, that flue is a little low, BUT low is easier than high.


Now then, someone sell me a Yosemite! haha