Jotul F400 Fire box Size
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mikepinto65 said:
1 - You most certainly CAN pack that stove to the gills...
2 - In order to compare to other stoves, you need to be consistent - which means just using the calculated area.
CTwoodburner said:
Im not sure im following you, did I say you cant pack it to the gills? I think I said, per the jotul manual, that you cant pack it to the glass or up to the point of touching the burn tubes....unless you too think you are better than jotuls instructions I think im missing your point.
There is nothing in the F 400 manual that says how high you can stack the wood inside the firebox. In fact, they only mention that you should maintain a gap to the front glass for proper air wash. In practice, you only need the smallest of clearance to keep the glass clean. Using dry wood and operating up around 600 °F makes a much bigger difference.
I have loaded the firebox completely to the baffles and as close as I can get to the front glass many, many times. I'd say I do this at least once everytime I operate the stove. I can assure you that if you know how to properly pack the box and regulate the air control lever, you can keep the stove burning in the 400-600 range with no problems.
I have loaded the firebox completely to the baffles and as close as I can get to the front glass many, many times. I'd say I do this at least once everytime I operate the stove. I can assure you that if you know how to properly pack the box and regulate the air control lever, you can keep the stove burning in the 400-600 range with no problems.
cycloxer said:
I really dont feel like sitting here and arguing with you, did you indeed check the euro manual for the burn tube clearance? I cant seem to find mine but for some reason I could have sworn I read that. Also, I do know for a fact that it does not say "maintain a gap", it says to leave "at least one inch" when referring to the glass.
I hope you realize I could care less how you operate your own stove, what works for you works. All im here to do in this thread, is say that the Castine has a 1.5 cubic foot firebox, and that you should not ever assume every spec of space inside of a stove in meant to hold wood.
mikepinto65 said:
What is your definition of a firebox and how did you come up with that? To me, the firebox is the interior open space of the stove. When I was shopping for a stove I compared the inside dimensions to other stoves that I measured exactly the same way. How else can you compare stoves?
A Hearthstone Shelburne measured the same way, with no clearances, comes to 2.0 cu. ft. - exactly what they publish in the catalog. Are they wrong? There is at least one stove manufacturer that agrees with my measuring methodology.
I very carefully measured the inside dimensions of the stove to account for the sloping secondary assembly at the top and even subtracted the area occupied by the air control housing as well as the angled corners in the rear of the stove. It conservatively comes to 1.75 cu. ft. of interior space, aka, the firebox.
I really could care less what the # is, but I know how to calculate volume. Where did you come up with 1.5? Are you saying, well if you want to maintain clearances to glass and secondary you can only use 1.5 cu. ft. of space? Is that your definition of a firebox? I can tell you from personal experience of owning this stove that if you want to fill the 1.75 cu. ft. of space, then you can and you will be able to maximize your burn. There is nothing in the Jotul manual that says you can't fill it up with wood.
cycloxer said:
Your methodology is wrong plan and simple. You keep citing Hearthstone and stating that you fill every possible inch with wood. Jotul spells out in plan English that you need to maintain at least 1" of air space from the glass....This, once again, proves that your measurements are inaccurate per Jotul. Like i said before, measure as you will....I too have measured the stove and the space intended for firewood IS 1.5 cubic feet (IMHO) and therefore (IMHO) the stove too is a 1.5 cubic foot stove.
I forgot to mention....going by you method of measuring firebox size, my Oslo would be rated at 2.8 cubic feet. Im 100% confident no Oslo owner would consider this to be true.
Fact: The interior volume of the F 400 Castine is 1.75 cu. ft.
The defininition of the firebox is up to your interpretation.
Problem solved.
The defininition of the firebox is up to your interpretation.
Problem solved.
yanksforever said:
Yeah because it is too warm to burn anything today anyway, so might as well bicker over size. I'm not a size queen, really.
I measured the inside of my VC Vigilant's firebox. It is 24"H x 17"H x 11"D (depth is an average as the fireback slopes forward). That's 2.6 cu.ft. But I can tuck splits against the doors since there's no glass, so that probably picks up .25 cu.ft. And I don't have burn tubes up top, so I can load the dang thing right up to the griddle top (I've often done just that), so that's maybe another .5 cu.ft. That gives me 3.35 cu.ft. box. Cool.
Except...
The manufacturer recommends using max. wood length of 18". So if I load just up to the bypass damper with 18" splits, it is only a 2 cu.ft. firebox. Loaded up that way with dry hickory or oak splits at a density of about 40-45 lbs/cu.ft. and allowing for air space between the splits (about 1/3 of the volume), it holds about 55 pounds of wood, which is exactly what the manufacture recommends as a maximum load. That makes is a 2 cu.ft. firebox... which is what I assumed it was anyway.
Wood needs extra room it to burn efficiently. Gases expand as they are burning, and they cool off as they contact the cooler sides of the stove. Even if your stove sides are hitting 800ºF, that's nowhere near the 1200º needed to ignite wood gases. When I load my stove with the 20-22" long splits I have left over from my last stove, I get a good deal of soot formed on the sides with no noticeable increase in heat output from the stove. In fact, I can get pretty high stove temps from just a small load.
These photos were taken a few days ago about 45 minutes after the first fill of the day. There was a substantial bed of coals left from the night before, so I just put on two medium size pieces of cherry about 16" long (ya, breaking the rule of three splits at a time). When I checked the flue temp it was 375º F, stove top was 700º (both confirmed within a few degrees by my IR at the time). The last photo shows the inside of the stove right after I opened the doors, and the mighty conflagration that was responsible for all this heat.
Except...
The manufacturer recommends using max. wood length of 18". So if I load just up to the bypass damper with 18" splits, it is only a 2 cu.ft. firebox. Loaded up that way with dry hickory or oak splits at a density of about 40-45 lbs/cu.ft. and allowing for air space between the splits (about 1/3 of the volume), it holds about 55 pounds of wood, which is exactly what the manufacture recommends as a maximum load. That makes is a 2 cu.ft. firebox... which is what I assumed it was anyway.
Wood needs extra room it to burn efficiently. Gases expand as they are burning, and they cool off as they contact the cooler sides of the stove. Even if your stove sides are hitting 800ºF, that's nowhere near the 1200º needed to ignite wood gases. When I load my stove with the 20-22" long splits I have left over from my last stove, I get a good deal of soot formed on the sides with no noticeable increase in heat output from the stove. In fact, I can get pretty high stove temps from just a small load.
These photos were taken a few days ago about 45 minutes after the first fill of the day. There was a substantial bed of coals left from the night before, so I just put on two medium size pieces of cherry about 16" long (ya, breaking the rule of three splits at a time). When I checked the flue temp it was 375º F, stove top was 700º (both confirmed within a few degrees by my IR at the time). The last photo shows the inside of the stove right after I opened the doors, and the mighty conflagration that was responsible for all this heat.
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Yes, you need some space for a good burn. What I have found with these smaller stoves is that you can load them up pretty much with as much wood as you can fit inside because you are not loading that big of a charge of fuel to begin with. It only takes about 1/2 hour before the load burns down and starts to settle giving you space for the more efficient, prolonged burn. It doesn't make the stove put out any more heat as you have to back off the primary air to keep the stove within a good temperature range.
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