Jotul F45 v2 Greenville vs Woodstock Soapstone Palladian

[Maxwell G Bones]

Hi folks,
I'm new to the forum - joined about a year ago - there is a lot of good reading on here and I've learned quite a bit. I'm close to making a stove purchase and thought I'd reach out to ask if anyone has any insights to share. I'd locked on the Jotul F45 vs Greenville last year, but it looks like it's no longer eligible for a federal tax credit (its efficiency rating is 71%) so I'm doing some more research and thinking about the Woodstock Soapstone Palladian (I like the Fireview too, but the simpler Palladian design appeals a little more).

My set up: 1300 sq ft two story wooden house in New England with plenty of heat loss. Chimney is in the center of the house, brick, but I'm adding a stainless steel liner. It's about 4 feet above the roof line. I'm planning to put the stove on the first floor. I'll have a heat pump to keep a baseline stable temp at 55 degrees and for backup.

I've heated with wood for a few winters using an older model Vermont Castings clunker and a Waterford that took about 3 hours to get going. I like that the Jotul F45 and the Woodstock Soapstone Fireview and Palladian seem to get high ratings for easy start up, and long stable burns. I'm pretty busy with other stuff so a beginner stove is probably a good fit for me. I like the simple look of the Jotul F45. I thought the Fireview, pretty as it is, might feel too ornate for a stove in the end. But efficiency and low emissions are also a priority, so now I'm thinking I should lean toward Woodstock Soapstone, which seems to have better performance on this front.

Curious to hear if folks have experience with these two particular stoves, or other insight, that might tip the pendulum one way or the other. And if there's another post that covers all this, my apologies.

Thanks very much!

 

[begreen]

Both are good stoves, though very different from each other. Either one would do the job well. The Woodstock will burn at a lower rate if mild weather heating is more important. The Palladian is designed for a 7" flue, but if the flue system drafts strong enough then a 6" flue may be sufficient. Ask Woodstock for that. The Palladian is a side-loader do make sure the hearth is wide enough. Another benefit is Woodstock'support. It's a small company that directly connects with the customer.
The Jotul F45 is a castiron jacketed stove for a softer heat that is very similar to soapstone heating. The mass of the cast iron softens the side radiant heat and releases it into the room as the fire dies down. The stove is nicely made with quality hardware and generally very low maintenance.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Both are good stoves, though very different from each other. Either one would do the job well. The Woodstock will burn at a lower rate if mild weather heating is more important. The Palladian is designed for a 7" flue, but if the flue system drafts strong enough then a 6" flue may be sufficient. Ask Woodstock for that. The Palladian is a side-loader do make sure the hearth is wide enough. Another benefit is Woodstock'support. It's a small company that directly connects with the customer.
The Jotul F45 is a castiron jacketed stove for a softer heat that is very similar to soapstone heating. The mass of the cast iron softens the side radiant heat and releases it into the room as the fire dies down. The stove is nicely made with quality hardware and generally very low maintenance.

begreen, thanks for the reply and for the detailed info. They do seem to be pretty different stoves that would do the job well. I can confirm about Woodstock support. I just called them to see if they could help me find one in my area that I could look at. They couldn't help me with that, but they were just about the nicest support rep I've ever talked to.

 

[begreen]

begreen, thanks for the reply and for the detailed info. They do seem to be pretty different stoves that would do the job well. I can confirm about Woodstock support. I just called them to see if they could help me find one in my area that I could look at. They couldn't help me with that, but they were just about the nicest support rep I've ever talked to.

Take a short trip up to the company and get a tour. You'll probably end up bringing one home.

 

[Todd]

I’ve owned all three of your choices. The Palladian may be a little under powered for a two story but the Fireview shouldn’t be with the larger fire box. The Fireview also has an easier cat access compared to the Palladian.

Currently I’m burning the F45 in a new log cabin and I really like it. Very easy to operate, similar burn times to the Woodstock’s as well as the softer heat like Begreen stated above.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Can you work on the heat loss aspect of the house? A little air sealing will go a long way.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Take a short trip up to the company and get a tour. You'll probably end up bringing one home.

Seems like a road trip is in my future, reading the tea leaves. Going to look at the Jotul tomorrow. Not sure when I'll be able to make it up to New Hampshire, but it's definitely on my list.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Can you work on the heat loss aspect of the house? A little air sealing will go a long way.

Absolutely - that's the plan. It's a 1910 worker cottage - double zero insulation and original windows. Going with blown in cellulose. The original storms are all intact. Single pane on a wooden frame that stays put all winter. They actually do a pretty good job. My brother-in-law who works on retrofitting old houses for energy efficiency said he thought the old storms have about as good R value as new double pane window replacements. There will still be some heat loss I expect around the window frames, but with insulation and maybe some new exterior doors, it'll be in much better shape I think. Do you think I should be sizing up and getting a bigger stove, or do you think the Palladian and F45 can handle it?

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

I’ve owned all three of your choices. The Palladian may be a little under powered for a two story but the Fireview shouldn’t be with the larger fire box. The Fireview also has an easier cat access compared to the Palladian.

Currently I’m burning the F45 in a new log cabin and I really like it. Very easy to operate, similar burn times to the Woodstock’s as well as the softer heat like Begreen stated above.

Todd - Thanks so much for your reply and talking to someone who's owned all three stoves, I feel like I hit pay dirt.

That's very helpful info that the Palladian might be under powered. I was worried about that so this is very helpful.

Glad to hear you're liking the F45. Sure does sound like a nice stove, the way you describe it.

 

[Woody Stover]

the Jotul F45 and the Woodstock Soapstone Fireview and Palladian seem to get high ratings for easy start up, and long stable burns.

I've had both the Fireview and Keystone (same stove as Palladian.) It's only about 1000 sq.ft. but our house had quite a bit of heat loss. The Fireview definitely puts out a bit more heat, for a bit longer with the bigger box, but I resolved to tighten up some of the air leaks and keep the Keystone because I like the big glass and really like the ash grate, which I'd had previously with the VC Dutchwest. The Keystone tosses the heat when you need it, if you open the air up a bit over 1. The Woodstock straight cats are built like tanks..stone and cast iron. One drawback is the cat expense. You'll want to replace it at three to four years to keep peak performance and get to the cruise stage quicker. OTOH, you can run a cat stove at pretty low output when desired. The Woodstock cats are relatively inexpensive, as cats go.
I think any of those three stoves would be a choice you could be happy with.

The Palladian is designed for a 7" flue, but if the flue system drafts strong enough then a 6" flue may be sufficient.

I haven't heard of anyone using 7" chimney on the stove. My Keystone draws great, rear-vented into 7>6" reducer, tee, and 16' of 6" insulated liner, even when it's pretty warm outside.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I suppose I should first state that I wouldn’t let the tax credit be the deciding factor in which stove to buy. A wood stove will last 20+ years and give you lots of service. The $20 or so dollars you save per year with the credit isn’t worth buying your second stove choice. Buy the one you want!

Ok, so CT is warm. At least compared to many areas of the country. I don’t think you’re going to need to blast heat out for months on end.

Insulating and air sealing your home will greatly increase the comfort level. It’ll also cut your heating needs greatly. But right now we don’t know how much lower your heating needs will be.

The Woodstock has a 1.4cuft firebox and the F45 has a 2.3cu ft firebox. Obviously the 2.3 will hold more fuel and throw more heat. Both are excellent stoves.

Both stoves are going to want good, dry wood. The F45 will be a bit less picky about what you feed it.

I don’t think you’ll need the higher capacity. I think you’ll find yourself running your stove on low during the long shoulder seasons that CT has and given the cat, the Palladian will excell at this. If you can keep good, dry wood I’d go with the Palladian.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Seems like a road trip is in my future, reading the tea leaves. Going to look at the Jotul tomorrow. Not sure when I'll be able to make it up to New Hampshire, but it's definitely on my list.

Take a short trip up to the company and get a tour. You'll probably end up bringing one home.

Drove out to a Jotul dealer today to see the F45. Nothing like seeing something in real life. They are much chunkier hunks of metal than I would have guessed, looking at pictures. They seem well-built and kind of indestructible. Nice solid handle. Lined with fire-brick. The very nice sales person said she's heated her 1300 drafty farmhouse with an F45 for five years with no issues. Hasn't used her oil heat once (that said, this was in Maryland where it's a lot warmer even than Connecticut). The sales person also said this is a steel stove with a cast iron door, not all cast iron, which was news to me (I didn't see this on the Jotul website). Seeing it in person, you do kind of wonder how much you'd miss the ash tray (my guess is that's a nice thing to have). I also think I'd miss the side loading feature of the VC and Waterford I've used in the past. Next up is a trip to Vermont to see the Keystone. Might take me a minute to get up there but I'm thinking I should bring a trailer so I can bring one home.

 

[Todd]

Actually the F45 is a steel fire box surrounded by a cast iron shroud.

Sometimes I miss my old Woodstocks. The ash pan on the Keystone was a nice feature.

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is why refer to the F45 as a castiron jacketed stove.

 

[Kamiobi]

I have burned the Keystone for 11 seasons and I have burned 24/7 for most of them. I’m on my second cat and may put in a new one for the 23/24 season. I have replaced a few gaskets: the window, door, ash pan and cat. I have gotten great support from Woodstock and my case is even more complicated because I live in Japan and all the parts include international shipping.

For my situation I learned that with soapstone 24/7 burning works best because it takes time to get the stove up to temp, but once it reaches the operating temperature it cruises for long time.

 

[KDubU]

Drove out to a Jotul dealer today to see the F45. Nothing like seeing something in real life. They are much chunkier hunks of metal than I would have guessed, looking at pictures. They seem well-built and kind of indestructible. Nice solid handle. Lined with fire-brick. The very nice sales person said she's heated her 1300 drafty farmhouse with an F45 for five years with no issues. Hasn't used her oil heat once (that said, this was in Maryland where it's a lot warmer even than Connecticut). The sales person also said this is a steel stove with a cast iron door, not all cast iron, which was news to me (I didn't see this on the Jotul website). Seeing it in person, you do kind of wonder how much you'd miss the ash tray (my guess is that's a nice thing to have). I also think I'd miss the side loading feature of the VC and Waterford I've used in the past. Next up is a trip to Vermont to see the Keystone. Might take me a minute to get up there but I'm thinking I should bring a trailer so I can bring one home.

You may want to take a right turn to NH as this is where Woodstock is located. Granted it is right on the border between the two.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Hi all -- well, it's a long story I won't delve into, but I had to delay the wood stove purchase.

Now, a few construction delays and gaps in employment later, I'm finally ready to take the leap on the wood stove. And boy, a few things have changed since 2023! I had set on the Palladian, but Woodstock Soapstone's website says the Palladian and Keystone have been discontinued, so I'm back to the drawing board.

Based on chats with the Woodstock rep, it looks like the Absolute Steel is probably going to work best for the house (1350 sq ft and pretty drafty; a lot better now with cellulose insulation and gap sealing). But the Absolute Steel is up for recertification by EPA and won't be available again (maybe) for another year.

So, I'm now considering the Lopi Evergreen or Rockport (the Rockport has the edge on efficiency and emissions), a Regency 1500 or 2500, or possibly a Fireview (still don't love the ornate aesthetics of the Fireview and the emissions rate is comparably high).

Also a Hearthstone Green Mountain 40 popped up on Facebook Marketplace for 1,500 yesterday, which seems like a good deal, but I'm wary of the need to frequently clean the cat (I can barely keep up with cleaning the house).

Any insights on any of the above would help pull me out of the rabbit hole and would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and if anyone's curious, the first two winters with the heat pump went well enough. No pipe freezes and I was mostly comfortable enough (except when temps were in the teens). But electricity bills were crazy all winter. And I don't have a generator and would rather go without one, so a wood stove is a must have for power outages during winter storms.

 

[begreen]

Of these stoves, the Lopi Rockport is probably the stronger candidate. Also consider a Blaze King stove for true cat performance. The Ashford series are good lookers.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

Of these stoves, the Lopi Rockport is probably the stronger candidate. Also consider a Blaze King stove for true cat performance. The Ashford series are good lookers.

Thanks begreen. I've been leaning in the Rockport direction. Seems like the best candidate. Was also really liking the Blaze King, but no cook top surface made it drop off the list.

 

[begreen]

The top on the Ashford is not bolted on. It lifts off to expose the steel stovetop. Another great cooking/heating stove is the PE Alderlea T5 or T6.

 

[Maxwell G Bones]

The top on the Ashford is not bolted on. It lifts off to expose the steel stovetop. Another great cooking/heating stove is the PE Alderlea T5 or T6.

That's great to know - thanks! The sales rep I spoke with wasn't aware of that. Makes me think maybe I should drive a little further for a different dealer....

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It never hurts to take the time to learn more. While you are learning, get a few cords of wood up and drying!

 

[John Lehet]

I believe the Absolute Steel is in the production schedule. It’s the Ideal Steel that is delayed until the EPA gets put back together. I have a friend with an Ideal Steel, loves it. The installer who installed my Progress Hybrid has an Absolute Steel, loves it. Easy to get these two names mixed up, seems like marketing could have differentiated a bit better.

Old house in New England, even retrofitted, can still lose a lot of heat. 1860s in Vermont here. 28 x 28 footprint, high ceilings on two floors. (Then there is a semi-heated (oil) addition sucking heat away from the main living space). We did everything we could retrofitting insulation, and it helped a whole lot, but it’s never going to be a newer construction. The Woodstock Progress Hybrid works here. In mild weather we use mini splits, in cooler weather just make fewer and smaller fires (and the stove holds heat and slowly disperses it). In the coldest weather (Vermont) the Progress is not too much heat and is very nice.