My jotul f600 is due for a rebuild. Both my front corner joints are leaking. ive been battling poor stove performance for awhile now even with new gaskets its still not performing as it should. Short burn times with a lot of heat going up the chimney even with a pipe damper. Ive been looking all over for a rebuild thread or litteture showing what seams to caulk etc ive gathered bits a pieces from threads here but its hard to make sense of them all this way.
Jotul F600 rebuild.
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Todd
Minister of Fire
Jotul F600 needs another rebuild...
I just found my old thread for rebuilding our stove in 2017, and it is in dire need of another rebuild. :( Baffles are warped (that is the second set I have installed), and the burn tubes are toasted (damage is not as bad as last time (2017) on the manifolds). In the meantime prices are way up...
www.hearth.com
Maybe this thread will help
Thank you. I've been over that thread. Few times trying to pick up info I'm trying to find something where it shows you where cement is needed. The part that worries me about tearing the stove down is right in that thread. " This stove requires a lot of cement in places you may not expect needing cement. I bought mine used and it's never been 100% right. Has gotten less efficient over the years. I'm wary that it's been torn down before and may be missing cement in places it should have cement. So ill have no evidence of cement to go by.
Anyone with any info would be a big help. Even a description of the cementing locations for reference would be a big help
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
No cementing guide exists. Jotul does not want them out in public, they would prefer you buy new or have a dealer or stove shop do the work. You really have to rebuild 50+ f-series stoves before you really get the hang of how they are designed and how to problem solve the common issues that come up with the f400/500/600.
These larger f500/600/400 require a lot of cement in all types of places between joints, secondary air set up, back and bottom air paths, inspection plate, air wash, multiple places between the 2 piece front,back, and bottom. And some those places are cemented only on 3 sides so the air can draft properly for the stove.
These are all reasons why I dont recommend people take on these 3 models for a first time rebuild. Take it to someone who rebuilds these large stoves for a living and can do it right the first time.
If you absolutely have to do it yourself, take lots and lots of pictures as you take it apart. Make notes of what pieces go back in what order. See where the factory cement was and take pictures and remember where it was. And just hope you dont miss anything, because if you do, the stove will just not perform.
Thanks for the advice. Im going to dive into it myself and give it a shot. I gave it a good cleaning last night and really inspected some of the cement that is visible on the inside of the stove. Lots of cracked cement and missing small sections here and there. I cant see how a company will sell a stove that bolts together and not give adequate info on how to seal it up. Thats lame.
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
All that cement you see missing may not actually be missing. The only cement you see when a stove is together is the overflow cement that comes out of the channels after you connect 2 joints. The cement that matters is the stuff in the actual cement channels.
To test if there is actually cement, do the flashlight test. Turn the lights off and shine a bright flashlight from the outside of the stove joint and look on the inside if the stove. If you see light, then cement is indeed missing.
As fas as Jotul not supplying rebuild directions, I think its more of a liability thing, and also if they teach people how to rebuild their stoves, who would buy a new one? The difference in efficiency is pretty minimal in any Jotul made between 2000-2019, and any stove in that time period can be rebuilt back to brand new with all OEM parts.
Good points. I know for a fact I do have two leaks at the top front two corners. From a cold start I get some smoke comming out until i get some heat into the chimney. I will Inspect the rest with the light method. And see what i come up with.
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
The top corners are just a bad gasket, thats an easy fix once you pop the top. Just replace like you would a normal door gasket.
Sorry I Should clarify that its the front corners where the sides and front come together. its leaking towards the top of those seams on each side.
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
Hmmm. Interesting. Id still replace the gasket and do the light check after the top is tightened down and see what it looks like.
Im thinking you may be on to somthing what are the odds both sides leak at the same exact spot.
Well upon further inspection im due for a rebuild. Lots of uncovered problems. Bad seams where cement has cracked and fallen out visible light using the flash light method. Two cracks about 3 inches long in the top cover of the stove. Secondary manifolds on both sides are also cracked. So this is why i thought this stove was a over rated hunk. But the silver lining i see how it comes apart and what gets cemented and what does not. Still have plenty of learning and cursing to do.
paredown
Burning Hunk
D. Hermit provided sound advice to me when needed.
I felt like I had no choice to press on once I realized (like you) that the stove (as BeGreen coaxed me) really needed a total rebuild.
I've added some comments in a post-mortem--and the one thing I will repeat--whatever the trick is to getting all of the panels together on the base, I suffered through multiple attempts before I finally got it--and it is extremely hard to juggle the pieces and get them together. It might be easier with a second pair of hands--I don't know. It also might get easier on the second or third or fifth try--I don't know. It was difficult enough that I thought I was going to have to disassemble, clean everything and start with fresh cement after a good night's sleep.
As far as where the cement goes, and how the air channels work--you can see where the cement traces were put down from the factory, and that plus logic (and asking the occasional question) should get you there. In my case, since the base was new, I kept the old base as a reference for knowing where to put the cement.
Ive been going back and forth about this all day. Im honestly leaning towards cutting my ties with the F600 and ordering a brand new 32NC I just want a simple straight forward steel stove the F600 is beautiful but having to break this stove down this far to reseal is eating at me id much rather have a ugly stove and just change gaskets. So im going to sleep on it and make a decision in the am I think the 32nc will be a good match.
Well after some thought im going to post up the F600 forsale. Going to place my order with englander today for a new nc32 looks like they are in stock and should ship in 2 days.
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
Did I forget to mention how important a dry fit is? Even stoves Ive built 100 times I still do a dry fit first to make sure everything is still going together as deigned. Taking a stove back apart and cleaning out wet cement to try again is a mistake you only make once.
TreeCo
Member
- Feb 4, 2007
- 38
In your opinion do all of the failed parts of the OP's Jotul F600CB point to it being over fired?
My 600CB is 15 years old or so and is our only source of heat and ours is doing fine.
paredown
Burning Hunk
Well, our stove was over-fired before we first put it into service--that's the reason that we got it for free.
Not ever having had a wood stove before and not knowing what to look for, I replaced the obviously damaged parts (the first set of baffles and some of the gaskets) and started burning. At some point (?couple of seasons?) after reading more here--and when the new baffles started warping --I got more serious (I thought) and took the top off, replaced the burn tube assembly, the baffles and every gasket that I knew about. And there are a number of threads on the forum, where people have had to replace the burn tubes as if their failure is a routine occurrence--so I kind of thought--oh well, it's a maintenance item.
Now I think that this is not a weakness of the stove design but points to other problems with the stove's sealing.
This is where the 'you don't know what you don't know' bites you--in the posts I read about rebuilds (and even the Jotul gasket set) does not mention the ash pan cover gasket--which probably was bad from the beginning. And I do think regular replacement of this gasket is one thing that should be part of the preventative maintenance for anyone running this stove.
More than that though--if I could go back and start over, the stove should have had a total rebuild right from the beginning. Once apart, you could see where the cement had failed in the top corners (and elsewhere), and you could see where the ashpan had been leaking. I think that it was not performing properly from the first fire we lit, and it slowly degraded from there (definitely NOT helped by some rookie errors and mistakes which were probably cumulative). But there was never a time when we loaded the stove up and watched it fly past 600 degrees and just let her rip--temps (at least according to our thermo) were never that high. What we did though was burn continuously during cold spells, often for weeks at a stretch.
What I can say for sure is that it never worked as well right from when we got it as it does right now--it is truly a different stove.
I suspect at 15 years if you burn continuously, you should be thinking about a rebuild.
{Sorry for the excessively long response--the coffee had not take effect yet this morning, and I thought this was the thread about my F600]
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100% I bought it used before I knew much about them. Ive always struggled with short burn times and a nuclear firebox no matter what I did. I do believe from day one of my self owning it, it was never right. Im looking into sending it to a shop for a overhaul this spring and installing it in my den for really cold snaps
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
Lack of maintance and over firing. The lack of inspections and maintenance made it easier to over-fire.
D. Hermit
Feeling the Heat
The reason we dont always go out and say “change your ash housing gasket” and why it is only included in full rebuild kits, is because this should only be replaced after it has been inspected and has been proven to have failed.
Trying to replace that gasket while the stove is assembled can cause more problems. There is play in how it attaches, its about 1/8-1/4”, if you set the housing too far back when you re attach it, or too far to the sides, then the door will have problems closing and latching, or it will have problems sealing. Which will just cause more problems.
