Jotul F600 needs another rebuild...

[paredown]

I just found my old thread for rebuilding our stove in 2017, and it is in dire need of another rebuild.

Baffles are warped (that is the second set I have installed), and the burn tubes are toasted (damage is not as bad as last time (2017) on the manifolds).

In the meantime prices are way up for parts--I managed to snag the whole burn tube assembly on eBay for $350--but the cast baffles are now running ~$70+ ea, so $140+ for the pair. Luckily I have an unused fiberglass blanket since the last time the old one was in good enough shape to reuse.

From our thermometer, I don't think we are over-firing, but we do have periods where the stove is going continuously for weeks on end. Other people here have complained about the baffles slowly warping under continuous burning--but it doesn't seem like that is true for everyone.

AFAIK, our stove is fairly tight--all new gaskets when I last rebuilt, checked for leaks last rebuild (and did some filling of top corners where stove cement was needed) doors are closing well, and the ashpan door does seem to close tightly (although I have probably had some occasions where the dreaded ash build up has meant it was not sealing as tight as it should.)

One user (Dexter) had the precursor stove, and did a modification where he used split fire brick sitting on 3/16" steel dowels running at right angles to the burn tubes as a substitute for the cast baffle plates, and with the stock insulating blanket on top. This meant no more baffles warping and seeming unchanged burn performance, so I'm seriously considering this as a solution.

Any thoughts about the modification?

(It could be that the train of events for failure is first the baffle plates warp, and then the burn tubes get fried when the flames are not channeled towards the front of the stove for a proper secondary burn?)

[Dexter's comment can be seen here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/firelight-firebrick.19207/#post-289151 ]

 

[defiant3]

Might need a new thermometer?

 

[begreen]

At this point, I would do a full teardown and redo all seams with fresh stove cement. My preference would be to use Hearthstone's cement for this.

 

[paredown]

At this point, I would do a full teardown and redo all seams with fresh stove cement. My preference would be to use Hearthstone's cement for this.

Got it apart this morning. Aside from snapping 3 out of 4 top bolts (grrrr!), not so bad. I'm still cleaning and assessing--it really does not look that bad inside, although I have more rust this time. The corners that I cemented last time are holding, and the gaskets all look pretty good--no signs of leakage on the top, and only (possibly) a little on the top of the side loading door--and I was definitely getting faster burning on that side.

Yesterday, I saw the best bargain for years--a brand spanking new F600 for $1500!!

I was trying to convince my wife that I should drive to MA to pick it up--it sold within an hour or so. It would have been great to be able to swap in a new stove, and then take this one out of the living room and rebuild at my leisure. And at the price of parts, just the manifolds and baffles were 1/3 the price the guy was asking.

The only thing that defeated me was the weight--I have no strong friends would would have taken a long ride with me to pick the thing up--or take out the old one!

 

[begreen]

Another leak potential is the ashpan door. It's good to check the gasket seal there too.

 

[paredown]

Another leak potential is the ashpan door. It's good to check the gasket seal there too.

Thanks for the reminder. I will probably buy the Jotul gasket set, and that includes all the main ones including ashpan door,

A closer check--I have definite gaps/stove cement fail on the top front corners, so it may be time to take it apart as you first suggested...

 

[begreen]

A closer check--I have definite gaps/stove cement fail on the top front corners, so it may be time to take it apart as you first suggested...

It's due. By taking it apart you will be able to get the cement right into the seams instead of a surface seal which can also be leaky.

 

[paredown]

Well that's a bit of a PITA. Got the all the side panel bolts out with a bit of fussing--Kroil and a 3/8" impact back and forth...

Broke the top inside front panel bolt (grrr...)--it's the one that you cannot get anything on the threads since it is recessed into a dimple on the front shield. Bottom bolts removed with more Kroil and the impact (back and forth to start, then in a bit, out a bit until the thread moves freely enough. I'm using my 1/4" ratchet too--just to limit the amount of torque I can put on the bolts.

Got started on the stove cement removal too.

Procedural question--would it be typical that you set the side panels first and scootch the front panel into position? I know you mentioned in another thread that a ratchet strap works well to hold the pieces in place.

The stove more or less started to fall apart on me as I was trying to get stuff unstuck and I am still a little puzzled by the geometry of the overlap on the front, and what would make the most sense for putting the stove back together.

I also spotted a small crack on the base casting--hairline just on the left front corner of the last square hole where the air slider moves. It is cracked to the outside slot where the ash apron inserts. I don't think this will affect anything--the front panel's stove cement effectively blocks leakage in from the top--and I will get a finger-full of cement on the inside of the air slider hole before buttoning the stove up.

(Ordered the Jotul gasket set, the cast plates and a few other bits. Will take a few days for those to arrive.)

 

[defiant3]

Any reason not to order a bottom while you're at it?

 

[paredown]

Any reason not to order a bottom while you're at it?

I suppose not--in for a penny, in for a pound I suppose. Got a call in with Preston/StoveWorld to see if this is still available.

 

[D. Hermit]

Well that's a bit of a PITA. Got the all the side panel bolts out with a bit of fussing--Kroil and a 3/8" impact back and forth...

Broke the top inside front panel bolt (grrr...)--it's the one that you cannot get anything on the threads since it is recessed into a dimple on the front shield. Bottom bolts removed with more Kroil and the impact (back and forth to start, then in a bit, out a bit until the thread moves freely enough. I'm using my 1/4" ratchet too--just to limit the amount of torque I can put on the bolts.

Got started on the stove cement removal too.

Procedural question--would it be typical that you set the side panels first and scootch the front panel into position? I know you mentioned in another thread that a ratchet strap works well to hold the pieces in place.

The stove more or less started to fall apart on me as I was trying to get stuff unstuck and I am still a little puzzled by the geometry of the overlap on the front, and what would make the most sense for putting the stove back together.

I also spotted a small crack on the base casting--hairline just on the left front corner of the last square hole where the air slider moves. It is cracked to the outside slot where the ash apron inserts. I don't think this will affect anything--the front panel's stove cement effectively blocks leakage in from the top--and I will get a finger-full of cement on the inside of the air slider hole before buttoning the stove up.

(Ordered the Jotul gasket set, the cast plates and a few other bits. Will take a few days for those to arrive.)

You are in for a decent project for sure. I would not even try to explain all the proper steps for a rebuild of this size stove. Its complex compared to all the other Jotul Fseries, and requires a lot of cement in places you man not expect, and if you dont, the stove wont burn right.

As far as the bottom, yes, replace it. It cracks from burning with the ash door open, or with really bad gaskets in the ash door. If the crack is in the back right, then its burning w the ash door open. So dont do that.

As far as re assembly. You start back, sides, front(get the 2 piece front together first). You will see where the overlaps are, assemble properly, fill the cement channels liberally. I use Rutland Furnace cement.

If you cant get the broke bolts out, or they are broke in the cast, you will have to drill out and re tap. All jotul bolts (except legs and bottom) are 6mm x1.0, so you have to drill them at 5mm to tap for 6. There are also a mix of hex head and flange bolts depending on where in the stove the bolt is. And get a depth gauge so you dont drill too deep, almost all Jotul cast holes are drilled to a 10mm depth.

Like I said to start, this is a big job. If I take this stove rebuild in at my shop. After all parts and materials, and labor, easily ends up over $2k. But I build them back to factory spec, so they are basically back to new when I finish.

 

[D. Hermit]

And if its part no 12 on the parts diagram, it is still available. Almost all parts are for the 600 still are. Here is the part number for the Matte Black color-

10388492- Bottom Panel, MB-msrp-291.96
If you give that parts number to your local Jotul dealer they can order it.

If you have an enameled version of the stove, the part number will be different, and the price dramatically goes up to between $600-$850. If you need those part numbers let me know.

 

[paredown]

And if its part no 12 on the parts diagram, it is still available. Almost all parts are for the 600 still are. Here is the part number for the Matte Black color-

10388492- Bottom Panel, MB-msrp-291.96
If you give that parts number to your local Jotul dealer they can order it.

If you have an enameled version of the stove, the part number will be different, and the price dramatically goes up to between $600-$850. If you need those part numbers let me know.

Thanks for weighing in--the guys from Preston/Stove World seemed to know their stuff on the part number(s)--it is the natural finish. They thought it would be around $275--I'll call them today to see if they have heard anything.

Thanks for the tips on assembly--I'll probably 'rehearse' dry-fitting first. Funny you mention the front panel--I was having a debate with myself whether the two pieces should be assembled first, or put it in as separate pieces.

I still have the base to pull apart, but everything else is out, and I have been cleaning and painting pieces as I go. Big job indeed! The good news is I now understand how the burn tube manifold works!

 

[paredown]

I finally called Jotul direct--and the bottom plate is available:
From DH's post (above): #12 bottom (from manual); 10388492 Bottom Panel, MB [matte black]

Interestingly, the Jotul person told me that Jotul has this flagged, and that you should replace the inner bottom front at the same time:
--#13 (from manual) Inner Bottom Front Part ; 10388512

 

[D. Hermit]

I finally called Jotul direct--and the bottom plate is available:
From DH's post (above): #12 bottom (from manual); 10388492 Bottom Panel, MB [matte black]

Interestingly, the Jotul person told me that Jotul has this flagged, and that you should replace the inner bottom front at the same time:
--#13 (from manual) Inner Bottom Front Part ; 10388512

I mean realistically, if your replacing the fire bottom, then you can replace any piece at the same time, by the time you get the fire bottom out, there like 10 more bolts that hold the rest of the base together ha

But Id say if they recommend it, then do it. It could be they made a slight adjustment to the fire bottom cast at some point when they were making them, so you need to replace the inner bottom front at the same time to make sure the parts fit together correctly.

 

[paredown]

Well this is going to be 'back burnered'. After speaking directly to Jotul, I was told the parts were available--what I was not told is that the second "inner bottom" they recommend replacing is not in stock in N. America, and will ship from Poland (where they take the month of July off!). So I already paid my money to the local dealer who did not promise anything but said vaguely '8-10 weeks'. Wish I had been told, since I have paid up front for both.

Fingers crossed. Of course the question is what you do with 400 pounds of partially cleaned and painted cast iron stove parts while you wait? I don't think my lovely wife appreciates having even the remnants in the living room, and I need to use the shop for other stuff. Yikes!

I may still shop for an insert and 'get 'er done' and make the Jotul a project for later...

 

[D. Hermit]

Thats tough. If you already painted them, you really gotta keep them inside somewhere dry, because they are painted, but not cured.

And it depends how many layers of paint you have on it. If you only have 1 layer, Id just finish the job, put 3 more layers on them and cover them up in the corner of the shop.

 

[EbS-P]

I love my Jotul but I’m not sure this much. Ok that’s not true. I’d do almost anything to keep it running only because it’s the enamel ivory. If it was black id I’d be shopping for a welded steel stove with a cast jacket. If I needed an insert PE T5 fits that bill. T6 if it was a top vent install. F45 is an option.

 

[defiant3]

Try dry fitting the new bottom with the OLD inner front bottom. It may work, and you may find there's one little "nub" to grind off to get a proper flush fit. Remember, it's just a big iron box. Keep calm and carry on?

 

[paredown]

Try dry fitting the new bottom with the OLD inner front bottom. It may work, and you may find there's one little "nub" to grind off to get a proper flush fit. Remember, it's just a big iron box. Keep calm and carry on?

Good thought--I'll see if the base piece shows up in a reasonable amount of time and may take a crack at this.

 

[begreen]

I'll see if the base piece shows up in a reasonable amount of time and may take a crack at this.

Hopefully, not another crack.

 

[defiant3]

Indeed, an unfortunate turn of phrase in this business...

 

[paredown]

A quick update. The base parts finally arrived and I picked them up this past week. It's the land of many projects right now, so I didn't get started breaking down the base until yesterday, cleaned and got organized. Painted some (main base came painted from the factory; 'inner bottom front' did not--it is mostly covered when in place, but I gave it a coat.) I left the base together because I wanted the parts orientation fresh in my mind.

I know people kept asking me if I burned with the ash door open (which I did not)--but what struck me on the break down was how bad the gasket was on the ash pan housing--this sits below the main base, is gasketed (not cemented) to it, and is held on by four bolts. There was creosote around all three sides at the top, and the gasket was really beat up.

Interestingly, this is not a gasket that is called out in the Jotul gasket kit--and while it would be tricky to replace while the stove was in its normal vertical orientation--it would be worth it to check this as part of your normal inspection. Ashpan door gasket is fine--but it will be replaced with all the rest.

There didn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the new and old castings, but I have included a comparison for those interested. First is the front inner--you can see the extra nubbins in the casting:

 

[paredown]

More photos...24-22 is the new casting number:

 

[D. Hermit]

Interestingly, this is not a gasket that is called out in the Jotul gasket kit--and while it would be tricky to replace while the stove was in its normal vertical orientation--it would be worth it to check this as part of your normal inspection. Ashpan door gasket is fine--but it will be replaced with all the rest.

The “Ash housing gasket” is in the full $80 Jotul gasket kit directly from Jotul. It is not a piece I supply in my abbreviated OEM F600 gasket kit, simply because 99 percent of people do not need or use it, and (because of inflation and my prices going up on everything) I had to choose between raising my prices or trimming mostly unused gasket from the kits. I choose the latter.

That being said, if you got the kit from me in either of my shops, shoot me a private message and Ill get you the 4.5ft of 1/4” LD required for it.

The reason the old one did not look cemented on, is because they use self adhesive gasket in the factory for the ash housing. The stuff I supply for the housing on request is no self adhesive, because ive found cementing it in helps it hold up better.