Jotul Rockland, Lopi cape cod, VC Montpelier or fireplace extraordinaire large flush plus??

[pittpizza]

Hi. My name is Heath and I want to seek out your advice.

My story starts 4 years ago when I bought my home. It is a 1500 square foot two-story house in a suburb of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania that was built in 1955 and has pretty new windows, pretty good insulation and a newer roof. Masonry fireplace with 22' 13x13 terra cotta flue. My dimensions will allow me pretty much anything and I'm going to have to redo my mantle anyway due to clearance issues.

When I bought my house I got the chimney inspected and the sweep said that there was a vertical crack and it was consistent with a "sudden occurrence, a thermal shock event." That language got me thinking that maybe this would be covered by insurance.

Fast forward to about a month or two ago and I started studying wood burning inserts and made the decision to do something about it. I just recently submitted my claim and Allstate agreed to give me $5,000 minus my 750 deductible. I am permitted to use that on a wood-burning insert so long as the issue with the cracked terracotta is solved.

My existing chimney and masonry fireplace allow me to have pretty much anything but the Vermont Merrimack is too tall. I, like many husbands, I'm in the camp of having a wife who wants a completely flush mount. That led me to the Vermont Montpelier, lopi Cape Cod, fireplace xtrordinair large flush as I don't want a catalytic converter, or the jotul Rockland 550.

I love hearth.com and I've read a lot of the stickies but I haven't found a great way to aggregate the reviews of each stove. I saw a lot of people speak negatively about Vermont Castings but I like the look of the Montpelier and there are also a lot of positive reviews as well. I'm at the point where I need to do something and I have had several chimney companies out here and gave me several quotes on pretty much anything I want. They're all around 5-6k but vary.

I have natural gas available to me to heat my home so I don't need to use the stove as my primary source but I think I want to. I live up against some woods and think as of right now anyway, that I might want to live the lifestyle that comes with heating your home primarily with wood.

I'm pretty handy so considered installing the 6in liner and stove myself but since insurance covers in I'm just going to go with a pro. I have a few questions.

1. How important is putting in a top plate? Only one company has that included and if I choose that company I can't get the jotul because he only carries Vermont castings and lopi/fireplaceXTR.

2. How bad really is the Vermont Castings Montpelier? I understand that the fire that the fire bricks are proprietary but other than that I love the design.

3. Between the Montpelier, the Rockland 550, the Cape Cod, and the large flush mount plus which would you get and why?

At the end of the day I truly believe in trusting in experts so I value your opinion and I I'm not great at making decisions. I'm sure whatever I go with I'll likely be very happy but I'm trying to be smart about it. Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[begreen]

1) Do you mean a block-off plate at the damper area? The top plate goes on top of the chimney, it's essential to seal off the flue tile. An insulated block-off plate is very helpful at reducing heat loss from the chimney from the insert cabinet. This is more important with exterior chimneys than with interior chimneys.

2) The Montpelier is fine. Most VC issues are with their freestanding units and older models that have a refractory combustion chamber. The Montpelier is a more conventional design.

3) Otherwise the Montpelier and Jotul are fine. The FPX should work too. You might also want to add the Quadrafire Voyageur if that is available through a dealer near you.

 

[pittpizza]

1) Do you mean a block-off plate at the damper area? The top plate goes on top of the chimney, it's essential to seal off the flue tile. An insulated block-off plate is very helpful at reducing heat loss from the chimney from the insert cabinet. This is more important with exterior chimneys than with interior chimneys.

2) The Montpelier is fine. Most VC issues are with their freestanding units and older models that have a refractory combustion chamber. The Montpelier is a more conventional design.

3) Otherwise the Montpelier and Jotul are fine. The FPX should work too. You might also want to add the Quadrafire Voyageur if that is available through a dealer near you.

Ha, I was thinking and hoping that you might be the first to respond begreen, thanks for your input.

I do in fact mean a block-off plate and I do have an exterior chimney. All of the installers said that they will insulate around the area where the damper will be removed, but only Nickos chimney said theyll put a hard blockoff plate on. I think its a lot of extra labor and many dont want to do it. How much weight should i give it?

Thanks for your opinion about the Montpelier. It is definitely in the running as our favorite, the styling is just gorgeous. I also have to admit I do love the name and the style and brand. Maybe its just marketing but it seems to be working on me. I have absolutely been considering the Quad Voyageur. It is available near me at a chain fireplace and patio store. I also like the "auto dampening" feature it has where you push the switch in and pull it all the way out to activate a 15 minute auto dampening function. Seems like it really does just boil down to a style choice huh?

Another issue: What are your opinions about using the .10 mm thickness stainless steel flue pipe as opposed to the .05 or .06 mm flexible liner pipe? I don't think ANY of the installers are planning on insulating it except for the guy who has buck stoves and I don't want a buck stove (style choice). Some have said that its not AS necessary since it is going up through an existing terra cotta flue. My chimney is 22' tall so I wouldn't imagine any draft issues.

Oh another question: I would like to not have an electric cable coming out of the side of my insert. I plan on tapping into a circuit in the basment (stove is on 1st floor) and drilling into my ash catch and pushing a piece of 12-2 armor cable up into the fireplace, what kind of outlet do i inistall that can handle the heat? or is it not too hot because its on the ground and in the back of the stove where I imagine they insulate well to push the heat out into your home?

Sorry for rambling.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like you are getting stove shop sales opinions. They generally want to be competitive in price which means cutting out what "they think" are unnecessary options. Ask them if they have their own installers or contract them out.

You are paying for the installation. Tell the store that this is what you want a quote for and stick to it or you will go elsewhere. Go for a heavy wall liner as long as it's single wall. Insist on an insulated block-off plate. Insist on the stainless liner and remind them that it is code unless you have a code compliant chimney that has a 1" gap between the chimney and the combustible structure of the house. The Buck dealer is more likely to be ok with an insulated liner because cat stoves have lower flue gas temps. The insulated liner not only improves draft, which is nice during mild weather burning, it improves safety and keeps the flue cleaner. If you bring a circuit up from below, it will need a switch near the fireplace so that the insert can be serviced safely.

 

[pittpizza]

Thanks, I'll insist on a blockoff plate. I read a thread dedicated to the issue of block off plates where you tagged several threads installing them. Thanks.

Between the stoves I've been mentioning, (Rockland, Fpxtr, cape cod, quad g voyage, CC Montpelier) are there notable differences that you think I should be considering?

Things like ash cleanout, fan noise, fan durability, burn times, are all factors is like to know more about.

 

[Pertzbro]

I have the Cope Cod. It's the same as the Flush Plus, just the outside face is different.

I'm on 2 years now with it. I have 25 foot masonry outside chimney. Lined with 6 inch no insulated. I have insulation at top of chimney below the top plate and insulation in the original masonry throat just above the stove. I do not have a block off plate.

I like my stove alot. It's definitely not a full time heat source as there is no ash pan (dont believe any inserts have those) and it will have a hard time burning over night. You will need seasoned wood (as you would with any new EPA stove). It will accept large logs up to 24 inches but only the first half of the firebox. Air control does work perfectly to control burn. Fans are loud on full but we run it full for a few hours and then we lower it down as the stove room gets up to temp.

Glass stays clean, i clean it about every 4th burn with Rutland Glass cleaner.

I have zero experience with other stoves or inserts other than this one.

My home is 3,000sqft built in 1922. Lots of windows. poor insulation. Windows are late 80's triple pane that are poorly sealed. It will heat the living room to high 80's when on full blast. It heats the entire first floor with no use from the furnance. Ceiling Fan on winter mode on high and a box fan blowing cold air at floor level on low.

 

[Pertzbro]

Some videos of Cape Cod.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WOOBKrXbsM1agkHP2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mq9l4o6l17yonDj02

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e2dMZFbY8syqXqPr2

 

[pittpizza]

Thanks Pertzbro. It seems like expecting 8-10 overnight burns is unrealistic for any flush mount inserts, or am I wrong? Cape Cod is kind of top of the line other than they Flush hybrid-fire stove. Its the same firebox as many other lopi and fireplace extraordinaire. (Extraordinair is a PITA to spell isn't it?)

Upon further consideration it appears that I may not be able to get the Jotul Rockland 550 CB because it has a 23.75" height and my fireplace height is 24". How would the installer be able to attach the flue pipe? Couldn't they lay the stove on its back (door up), attach the liner, and angle it back into place while feeding the liner up into the chimney?

I love the cape cod but have to make a style choice about it's dark grey color as opposed to the cast iron black. Since we are hiring a remodeler to redo our mantle and hearth after we get the stove I think we have some flexibility. I just know that we are not interested in the brown enamel that many companies offer.

My home is 1452 sq. feet, do I need to be concerned about the stove "burning us out" of the living room where it will be? I don't mind placing a strategic fan here or there but the stove is about 8' away from where we watch TV.

I am also wondering if the fan noise is too loud.

 

[Pertzbro]

The fan is 100% variable via a dial on the side. High, Medium, Low, anywhere and everywhere in between. So you can dial the fan to either heat output or noise output you're looking for in each setting. Crank it to high when you're in a different room or turn it down to watch a movie. You can choose so you wouldn't be pushed out of the room for either heat or noise.

I typically light it when i get home around 5:30ish, get a fire going and by 6:15 the fan kicks on. I then run fan on full blast for an hour or two to heat the room up and then dial it down to medium.

During the weekend the fan is typically on low since we're burning all day and overnight (full load at midnight, reload at 6:30-7am).

Heat output is i think more controllable than a standalone stove. Most of the heat is coming from the fan system. You can control the burn (and subsequently the heat output) 4 ways (the 4th being what species of wood) but i think more easily by 3 ways... size of load you put in (one log or fill it full) primary air intake setting and finally the fan setting. No fan at all and you're only getting the radiant heat off the glass and off some of the cast iron surround.

My stove room gets exceptionally hot because of lower ceilings, celing fan on reverse on high and my home not being very open. Ceiling height has a large play in the overall heat feeling of a stoveroom.

 

[Pertzbro]

This one should fit your hearth as well, but I believe the firebox is a bit smaller at 1.8 instead of the Lopi's 2.2sqft. Main issue with smaller fireboxes is smaller splits of wood and shorter burn times.

https://napoleonfireplaces.com/products/oakdale-epi3-wood-insert/

 

[Pertzbro]

Also these ones:

https://www.regency-fire.com/en/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts

Local dealer is: http://www.duvallheatcool.com/

 

[tadmaz]

For flush, I am going with a 2600/HI400. I am not afraid of the cat, I'm excited about it. Enviro Cabello's and VC Montpelier were my other choices. Cast surround/flush were the requirements. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-insert-advice.165674

 

[pittpizza]

That's a lot of good info but I'm supposed to be narrowing down options, not getting more, lol.

I have heard of regency but none of the stove shops I've had out carry them. I suppose I need to just make a darn choice. I guess if I am honest with myself I am partial to Lopi/FXTR and Jotul but I've been reading some bad things about Jotul and customer service on the rockland 550 thread.

I'm in no hurry but I did get insurance to cover a large portion of the repair. The estimate for re-lining was 5,000 but with my 750 deductible they only pay 4,250. They gave me 3,000 yesterday and will remit the remaining 1,250 once I prove I had the work done. I'm not complaining and feel fortunate to have a large portion of getting a wood insert paid for.

Have you longer term hearth.com members heard of a lot of community members getting insurance to kick in on chimney repairs/upgrades to wood inserts?

 

[begreen]

In lieu of the Jotul C550, consider the C450. It's 22" high. One nice thing about the C450 is that it's depth is adjustable.

 

[Pertzbro]

Have you longer term hearth.com members heard of a lot of community members getting insurance to kick in on chimney repairs/upgrades to wood inserts?

Not to be the main poster - But I also happen own an independent insurance agency. Your question like almost any question with insurance is it depends. Depends on the policy, the carrier, the circumstance of the loss, the opinion of the adjuster, etc. etc. etc.

Typically sudden and immediate causes of loss are more often covered compared to slow and gradual causes of loss.

 

[pittpizza]

I'll have a look at that smaller jotul, I think it's called the Kennebek or something similar. The installer that I think I'd prefer doesn't stock Jotuls though. I am also thinking I might want as large of a stove as I can get. I do worry slightly about being too hot in the room with the stove because my ceilings are low but there's an upstairs with a Stairway nearby and there are large openings to my kitchen and dining room.

Pertzbro and begreen I'm happy to have the convo. The way the first Chimney Sweep wrote it up, that it might be covered in insurance just jumped out at me. There's no reason to write that it was due to a sudden occurrence otherwise, IMO. In any case I rarely spend this kind of money on my home, or on anything really, so it's a big decision and hopefully a permanent one.

The final out the door total for everything was 6800 and that includes .10 thick liner, top plate, install, hopefully good insulation and wiring it up for Lopi large flush hybrid-fire.

I need to study up more but I initially didn't want a cat stove but the more threads I read on here the more I think that I could handle it and that it might be preferable. I'd like to be able to make it my primary heat source.

 

[Toomb]

I have had a jotul 550 for 3 years now. I have no experience with the other stoves mentioned. I have had no problems with it, thus no need for customer service. I did have to replace a rheostat this year......took 30 mins, and $15.00 . Not bad considering the fans essentiall run 24/7 for 6 months of the year. It heats our space well, and i think it would heat 1400 sq feet. But Inserts are not as effecient heaters as freestanding stoves. A lot of heat is lost to the chimney mass. I consider it a space heater, and really use it to supplement our heating needs. The lay out of our house makes it difficult to rely on it as a primary heat source. But it does allow us to keep our family room a toasty 80 degrees when it is single digits outside. And it certainly reduces how much our furnace runs. As far as 8-10 hour burns overnight? I can easily go 8 hours over night and have plenty of hot coals to restart a fire without kindling. My advice is buy the biggest insert that fits in your fireplace.....and your wife likes.

 

[pittpizza]

That's great advice Toomb. I absolutely love the look of it and the brand seems top of line.

What are your thoughts on Buckstove 74 as an insert? It is cheap, like almost half the price ($1,899) as the Rockland. I think the stove shop guy wanted 3250 or near there for the Rockland.

The Cape Cod is running about the same. VC Montpelier is the only one that is significantly cheaper at a price closer to $2,200.

They are all wanting about 1200 for the liner (seems very pricey to me) and between 600-1100 for installation.

For instance, I have a quote of $6,891.00 for the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid Fyre insert inclusive of the surround and everything. That seems like it is a top of the line model but still outrageously expensive.

 

[Toomb]

I can't speak about the other stoves. I am sure others will chime in. But i will give my opinion about buying any stove. First, i am cheap. I hate spending money, and cost is always a major consideration for me. My first instinct is to buy the cheapest option. That being said, i have often learned the hard way that the saying " buy once, cry once" exists for a reason. You are going to use this stove every day for 5-6 months out of the year.......for years! Buy the best you can afford...even if it is more than you want to spend now. The few dollars you save will quickly be forgotten if you ( or your wife) are un happy with the purchase.
Want to save some money? Do the install yourself. It is not that difficult. It really can be a do-it-yourself project. Knowing how to do it is the most difficult part. Educate yourself, Take your time , ask lots of questions, ......this site is full of info and help. If you are at all handy you can do it.

 

[pittpizza]

I can't speak about the other stoves. I am sure others will chime in. But i will give my opinion about buying any stove. First, i am cheap. I hate spending money, and cost is always a major consideration for me. My first instinct is to buy the cheapest option. That being said, i have often learned the hard way that the saying " buy once, cry once" exists for a reason. You are going to use this stove every day for 5-6 months out of the year.......for years! Buy the best you can afford...even if it is more than you want to spend now. The few dollars you save will quickly be forgotten if you ( or your wife) are un happy with the purchase.
Want to save some money? Do the install yourself. It is not that difficult. It really can be a do-it-yourself project. Knowing how to do it is the most difficult part. Educate yourself, Take your time , ask lots of questions, ......this site is full of info and help. If you are at all handy you can do it.

Not to brag, but insurance is covering the bulk of the cost of this. 4250 to be exact. They paid 3000 already but will only release the remaining 1250 after proof that the flue was relined. They are cool with me putting an insert in as opposed to only a re-lining but I still need to have it done professionally for insurance purposes.

Also not to brag, but with my tax return coming and this unexpected insurance money price isn't really an issue. I'd spend the 6,500 on what appears to be the top-of-the-line Lopi Large 3.0 cc firebox hybrid-fyre stove if I really thought it was the best. Essentially I want the absolute best. Right now I'm down to the Jotul 550, Lopi Large hybrid fyre, or VC Montpelier (though this is cheaper).

I think I've ruled out Quadrafire Voyageur Grand because of some of the reviews Ive read on here. This seems to be about the only place that offers many reviews of wood stoves. It is just such a niche industry that there is no real review info out there besides hearth.com?

As far as the product marketing info, I'm a pretty cynical guy and am basically ignoring the claimed BTU output and focusing on firebox size. They all are EPA certified, they all are over 75% efficient.

I'm more concerned about longevity, ease of use, looks, quality, fan noise and performance. I'd spend more if I really thought there was a better product but there are mixed reviews and opinions about all of them. One user here tells a bad story about Jotul's customer service. Another member here said most of the Lopi Large Hybrid-Fyres he has seen have warped out of shape. Ugh!! Almost info overload. I guess Lopi has a 7 year warranty as opposed to V.C. 3 year warranty so that is something to consider.

Finalists so far are the Large Hybrid-Fyre, Large Flush Wood Plus, or V.C. Montpelier.

 

[begreen]

Not to complicate things, but is there an Enviro or Pacific Energy dealer in the area? If so take a look at the Enviro Cabello and Boston and the PE Neo inserts to see if they would fit.

 

[pittpizza]

Not to complicate things, but is there an Enviro or Pacific Energy dealer in the area? If so take a look at the Enviro Cabello and Boston and the PE Neo inserts to see if they would fit.

Yes I do have enviro as an option. Today I went to what I think is 5th Stove Shop in Western Pennsylvania. I've been to Chips wood stoves in Apollo PA, nicko's chimney in Latrobe PA, Hearth & Home in Emsworth PA, another hearth store in Zelienople PA and a Fireplace and Patio place in Murrysville PA.

Most of them carry Travis Industries products, Jotul is probably the second most common brand. Only one store in the area sells Quadra-Fire. Honestly all of the people seem to be good people. No one really stuck out as having a huge price difference in only one, nicko's, will install the block off plate. Many of indicated that they all put the insulation up there but that a steel block off plate is not necessary nor would it really be possible. This got me thinking a lot about the installations since what stove I get it seems to just boil down to a style choice.

The guy today said that even though the Rockland will fit in my fireplace , it's not an option because it would be impossible to install with only a half inch clearance. When the stove height on the Rockland 550 is 23 5/8" and my fireplace is 24" does that mean that it will fit and can be installed or does that just mean it will fit. They still have to be able to access the liner when the stove is in place correct? How do they actually install the block off plate when there's only a half an inch or an inch and a half clearance? I asked if it would be possible to lay it on its back, attach the liner, then kind of angle the stove in place and raise it into place while feeding the liner up into the chimney but the guy seemed to know exactly what I was talking about it indicated that it just won't work. I also asked if any of them will be using furnace cement to seal the liner to the collar but none of them do and all said not necessary. Thoughts?

I'll be running my 12-2 electric cable from my bssement, through wall then up through the ash dump this Saturday.

 

[prezes13]

I have a cape cod for 5 years now. I do get over night burn with my stove. 8-10 hours are achiveble. All depends on how much heat you need. With the temps to mid 20 I have no problem with overnight burns. 1994 raised ranch. 1200sf outside chimney, 6" in insulated liner no blockoff plate. Roughly 15' of flue. In the very harsh cold snap we had I was able to keep my house at 72df. If it's above 20 I can do whatever I want however anything above 77 is too hot.

 

[pittpizza]

That's awesome prez, it's exactly what I'm looking for. How is the fan noise? I imagine that use the same fan in the Cape Cod, the fireplace xtrordinair, the large flush wood Plus, and the hybrid fyre correct?

 

[prezes13]

I use fan on a very low speed. There is no reason to leave it on high, unless you got stove too hot. Other than that I leave it on low and it's pretty quiet. But as any new stoves you need a seasoned wood. This year I am burning 3 years old oak and the stove performes great. Especially long burns with white oak. In a shoulder season, low 40 during the day I can do 2 loads a day and keep my house in the high 70.