Jotul, what do you guys think about this deal?

[My Oslo heats my home]

[quote author="raybonz" date="1305492019"][quote author="xman23" date="1305488562"]Ray,
Hope it wasn't one of our buddies here that beat you to the stove.

My first guess is that someone from here might have sneaked in under the radar...it was a good deal

 

[raybonz]

Ray,
Hope it wasn't one of our buddies here that beat you to the stove.

My first guess is that someone from here might have sneaked in under the radar...it was a good deal

Man that would piss me off I hope that isn't the case...

Ray

 

[summit]

too bad you missed it, woulda been a helluva deal... To clarify some ?'s about the earlier noncat version:

The actual firebox structure is exactly the same as the current production. The only differences are the fixed side door and ashpan handles, really. The early non cat also had the horizontal lattice work along with the vertical arches on the front door castings, like the cat unit did, while the current production is all vertical gothic arches across the glass.

The old and new versions use a removable handle to access the front door. This handle is the same handle that used to work the doors/damper/catalyst access panel on the original CAT version.... BTW the cat version was actually a pretty well thought out design, many folks do pretty well with them, still... the glass does stay cleaner on the noncats, however... burn times about the same, +/- 1hr or so IMHO.

Many of the structural parts of the old and new noncat versions are interchangeable, the only exception being the side door and ash door castings (the setup for the fixed handles is a slightly different mount than for the removable setup).

The biggest issue most ran into on the CAT and early noncat units was the air intake handle... for some reason, the handle would get real sticky, and hard to adjust. Powdered graphite would solve that issue (applied directly to the slider inside the primary), but the graphite would wear out by the end of the burning season, requiring reapplication...

As an interesting sidenote, the USA tech dept came up with a shorter, curvier chrome lever design that solved the problem. The Norweigan R&D dept checked it out, did some math, and said it wouldn't work, given the mathematics of the design compared to the layout of the slider. Screw it, said the Americans, and started putting some into the new F600 units coming in and it worked flawlessly.... and is now on all new F600 units (as well as an avail retrofit for older designs.) The American techs call it the "bumblebee" because, mathematically, the bumble bee shouldnt be able to fly, but it does anyway... mathematically, the American handle wasn't supposed to work, but it does anyway, hence the nickname.

Thats enough Jotul F600 non cat history for today. Class dismissed.

 

[leeave96]

Ray,

To bad on the Jotul. I think you are within visiting distance to Woodstock's factory, why don't you make you way over there and have a look-see at them first hand?

You are right about the positive comments regarding Woodstock. When I was searching for my stove, after reading of the problems with the Vermont Castings, I started looking at different makes of stoves and looking for negative stuff on them. Woodstock was just about perfect. The only negative I could find was that maybe the stove someone picked didn't have enough hp to heat their house - a size vs quality problem.

The new model to come out this Summer is likely to be a killer stove.

Oh, I read very positve things about the Jotul F500 and 600 stoves, so I wouldn't rule them out as a new purchase either. Also, inspite of the welding deal with the PE stoves, I think they are good stoves too. In the end, it's hard to beat Woodstock service/support.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[remkel]

Ray,

Sorry to hear about the missed F600, but have to admit, it would have been tempting for me had I not just bought the new stove.

I don't know your layout, but I can tell you mine and it may help with your decision. My stove is in my unfinished basement (I feel it is somewhat of a waste of a beautiful stove to put it in my basement, but c'est la vie) and I leave the basement door open to let the heat goodness rise throughout the rest of the home. My VC Vigilant would heat most of the home (~2300 sq ft not including the basement space) and I went to a larger stove to hopefully make up for the 5-10% of the house I could not heat. I am also planning on building a dividing wall in the basement this summer to reduce the heated space in the basement in half and force more of that heat goodness up into the house. Figuring that I should be able to turn off the boiler save for hot water this coming winter.

Each type of stove have their own quirks, all I can talk to is my experience with cast as that is what I have been around. I have family that heat their houses with steel stoves and love them. I have never been around the soapstone stoves, although I was considering these when I did my research.

Whatever way you go, just be certain the stove will put out enough heat for your situation. Sounds like you are looking at the larger units, so this should not be a problem. I look forward to hearing about your final decision.

 

[raybonz]

Ray,

To bad on the Jotul. I think you are within visiting distance to Woodstock's factory, why don't you make you way over there and have a look-see at them first hand?

You are right about the positive comments regarding Woodstock. When I was searching for my stove, after reading of the problems with the Vermont Castings, I started looking at different makes of stoves and looking for negative stuff on them. Woodstock was just about perfect. The only negative I could find was that maybe the stove someone picked didn't have enough hp to heat their house - a size vs quality problem.

The new model to come out this Summer is likely to be a killer stove.

Oh, I read very positve things about the Jotul F500 and 600 stoves, so I wouldn't rule them out as a new purchase either. Also, inspite of the welding deal with the PE stoves, I think they are good stoves too. In the end, it's hard to beat Woodstock service/support.

Good luck,
Bill

Bill I think you can read my mind as I have the same sentiments as you stated.. The PE thing is hard to ignore and whether or not PE resolves the crack issue doesn't matter if the problem continues.. From what I read here it sounds like PE needs to be proactive and send out dealer reps to people's homes to inspect all the stoves that could have this issue.. Call it a recall if you like but this looks like a serious matter to me.. I feel that if Woodstock had a situation similar to what PE has they would handle it with a sense of urgency rather than the lackadaisical way that PE has dealt with it.. Jotul has good quality but I have read where they can be slow or unresponsive at times but then again they are a large company and that can happen however many of us heat our homes with these stoves and some cannot wait a week without heat as there is no backup heat source.. These companies need to pay attention as they are not selling luxury items but items of utility and to that end they need to perform well 24/7 as long as occasional maintenance is performed.. Essentially a company that sells products of this nature needs to put themselves in your shoes and act accordingly..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

Ray,

Sorry to hear about the missed F600, but have to admit, it would have been tempting for me had I not just bought the new stove.

I don't know your layout, but I can tell you mine and it may help with your decision. My stove is in my unfinished basement (I feel it is somewhat of a waste of a beautiful stove to put it in my basement, but c'est la vie) and I leave the basement door open to let the heat goodness rise throughout the rest of the home. My VC Vigilant would heat most of the home (~2300 sq ft not including the basement space) and I went to a larger stove to hopefully make up for the 5-10% of the house I could not heat. I am also planning on building a dividing wall in the basement this summer to reduce the heated space in the basement in half and force more of that heat goodness up into the house. Figuring that I should be able to turn off the boiler save for hot water this coming winter.

Each type of stove have their own quirks, all I can talk to is my experience with cast as that is what I have been around. I have family that heat their houses with steel stoves and love them. I have never been around the soapstone stoves, although I was considering these when I did my research.

Whatever way you go, just be certain the stove will put out enough heat for your situation. Sounds like you are looking at the larger units, so this should not be a problem. I look forward to hearing about your final decision.

Remkel my stove lives in the livingroom and is the 1st thing you see when you walk in the door.. This being said it has to look good as you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression. Secondly this stove has to perform and by that I expect it to heat the whole house. Lastly this stove must be reliable, the company that sell them must provide good support and provide parts if needed promptly and at a reasonable cost..

As it stands now Woodstock is leading the pack especially if the new stove lives up to the hype.. I will keep an open mind and we will see how this plays out.. My old CDW may not have been the best stove but I could always count on it to work.. The days of it's OK I can wait for this to work are gone with oil running about $4.00 a gallon.. Wood heaters are a serious matter for myself and many others here.. In some cases this is their only heat source so it's imperative that their stoves always work..

Ray

 

[remkel]

Ray,

Sorry to hear about the missed F600, but have to admit, it would have been tempting for me had I not just bought the new stove.

I don't know your layout, but I can tell you mine and it may help with your decision. My stove is in my unfinished basement (I feel it is somewhat of a waste of a beautiful stove to put it in my basement, but c'est la vie) and I leave the basement door open to let the heat goodness rise throughout the rest of the home. My VC Vigilant would heat most of the home (~2300 sq ft not including the basement space) and I went to a larger stove to hopefully make up for the 5-10% of the house I could not heat. I am also planning on building a dividing wall in the basement this summer to reduce the heated space in the basement in half and force more of that heat goodness up into the house. Figuring that I should be able to turn off the boiler save for hot water this coming winter.

Each type of stove have their own quirks, all I can talk to is my experience with cast as that is what I have been around. I have family that heat their houses with steel stoves and love them. I have never been around the soapstone stoves, although I was considering these when I did my research.

Whatever way you go, just be certain the stove will put out enough heat for your situation. Sounds like you are looking at the larger units, so this should not be a problem. I look forward to hearing about your final decision.

Remkel my stove lives in the livingroom and is the 1st thing you see when you walk in the door.. This being said it has to look good as you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression. Secondly this stove has to perform and by that I expect it to heat the whole house. Lastly this stove must be reliable, the company that sell them must provide good support and provide parts if needed promptly and at a reasonable cost..

As it stands now Woodstock is leading the pack especially if the new stove lives up to the hype.. I will keep an open mind and we will see how this plays out.. My old CDW may not have been the best stove but I could always count on it to work.. The days of it's OK I can wait for this to work are gone with oil running about $4.00 a gallon.. Wood heaters are a serious matter for myself and many others here.. In some cases this is their only heat source so it's imperative that their stoves always work..

Ray

Ray,

I could not agree with you more and believe me I do not choose a stove over aesthetics, however, the Jotul does present well. I do not blame you for choosing a Woodstock- they are well built and from what I have seen here and other places are reliable and efficient. I was heating last winter with a 1978 VC Vigilant- it worked like a charm, but was a creosote monster! That is what brought me to the newer and more efficient Jotul.

I too want the stove to heat the whole house. Good luck with your search and I still look forward to hearing about your decision

 

[begreen]

ray, you might also keep an eye out for a Quadrafire Isle Royale while looking. Based on what you have described for your needs that stove could do the job and it looks great.

 

[xman23]

Ray,
We feel the same about our stove. It is the focal point in the house. Yes it has to perform, and ours has met our expectation's. I didn't exactly know what I was doing, but I designed the house around the stove being the primary heat source. One thing we did and I can recommend is Jotel porcelain enamel finish. It's as hard glass. Some how it holds up to the heating and cooling cycles. Well worth the additional cost. My Oslo is a sweet stove, but if I had know about the Woodstock I might have one. Is there any issues with the stone cracking with all the heating and cooling.?

 

[raybonz]

I agree that the Jotul, PE, Quadrafire and Woodstock look and work well .. Man this is not going to be easy.. BeGreen I agree the Quad you mentioned is a beautiful looking stove! I have the feeling the Quad is going to be very expensive especially with a porcelain finish, somewhere around $3,000.00.. That's a big chunk of change and more than I want to part with.. Jotul has been around forever and they look great and should be very durable.. PE Alderlea T-5 and T-6 (I can get the unburned T-5 floor model for $1,880.00 + tax out the door) are on the chopping block right now but I feel they will come through.. Woodstock gets great reviews from everyone here but my wife doesn't like the looks of them (hard to believe I know) and they should last a lifetime.. I like the new VC dual technology stoves but I simply can't trust them with their history of troubles and reliability and high cost of repair.. For around $2,000 I should be able to get this done.. The story continues.....

Ray

 

[begreen]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

 

[raybonz]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

I can't argue that the IR is beautiful but I question the long burn times that a cat stove can and does provide.. I read differing reviews when it comes to burning non cat stoves.. Cat stoves really shine on a long burns and that's a plus in more moderate weather when they can burn for up 12 hrs. .. Additionally cats also excel in uniform heat for long periods.. It seems the non-cats have improved on the long burns but are they really up to par with a cat stove in overall efficiency? All I have ever burned is a cat stove and I am very used to the heat they provide and quite frankly it's hard to ignore the uniform heat..

Ray

 

[begreen]

Not trying to talk you out of a cat. This is just an alternative to the F600 in case one shows up on CL or at a dealer looking to deal.

 

[leeave96]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

I can't argue that the IR is beautiful but I question the long burn times that a cat stove can and does provide.. I read differing reviews when it comes to burning non cat stoves.. Cat stoves really shine on a long burns and that's a plus in more moderate weather when they can burn for up 12 hrs. .. Additionally cats also excel in uniform heat for long periods.. It seems the non-cats have improved on the long burns but are they really up to par with a cat stove in overall efficiency? All I have ever burned is a cat stove and I am very used to the heat they provide and quite frankly it's hard to ignore the uniform heat..

Ray

Ray,

We've got a small fire in the Keystone tonight - first one in about a week, but it's cool and rainy around here and just feels cold. To knock off the chill for the evening, the Keystone is burning cat only. No flames - just catalyst combustor chewing on smoke with a few red coals in the bottom of the stove. The low clean burn is really the ticket for this kind of weather.

Just to give you a bit more to consider with your stove buying choices - don't forget that Woodstock has a 6 month return policy and believe it or not, some folks return their stoves. Woodstock sells those stoves at a discount. Todd bought one of his Keystones like this and from what I can tell from his posts, it sounds like buying one of these refurbs is like buying a new stove. Why don't you give Woodstock a call, ask a few questions about their stoves and while you have them on the phone, have them to send you their video and info packet.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[raybonz]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

I can't argue that the IR is beautiful but I question the long burn times that a cat stove can and does provide.. I read differing reviews when it comes to burning non cat stoves.. Cat stoves really shine on a long burns and that's a plus in more moderate weather when they can burn for up 12 hrs. .. Additionally cats also excel in uniform heat for long periods.. It seems the non-cats have improved on the long burns but are they really up to par with a cat stove in overall efficiency? All I have ever burned is a cat stove and I am very used to the heat they provide and quite frankly it's hard to ignore the uniform heat..

Ray

Ray,

We've got a small fire in the Keystone tonight - first one in about a week, but it's cool and rainy around here and just feels cold. To knock off the chill for the evening, the Keystone is burning cat only. No flames - just catalyst combustor chewing on smoke with a few red coals in the bottom of the stove. The low clean burn is really the ticket for this kind of weather.

Just to give you a bit more to consider with your stove buying choices - don't forget that Woodstock has a 6 month return policy and believe it or not, some folks return their stoves. Woodstock sells those stoves at a discount. Todd bought one of his Keystones like this and from what I can tell from his posts, it sounds like buying one of these refurbs is like buying a new stove. Why don't you give Woodstock a call, ask a few questions about their stoves and while you have them on the phone, have them to send you their video and info packet.

Good luck,
Bill

Bill,
I have called Woodstock a few times and also have asked about the returned stoves. The 6 month return policy does not apply for a returned stove so I can't take that route as I feel the Fireview which is their biggest stove may not be big enough for this house.. If I felt it would do the job I would take this road as you can get a good deal on these stoves. As for how cat stoves burn I have lots of experience in this area and feel they would work best for me. I too ran my stove yesterday as it has been damp and chilly here for days on end and it took off the chill and got the house to 73 degrees.. In my opinion cat stoves perform best for year round use in this area. I have nothing against non-cats as I feel they have their own advantages and the new Woodstock will give you both plus more btu's and could be just what we need.. There is no need to sell me on Woodstock as a company as they have demonstrated their commitment to customer satisfaction repeatedly..

Ray

 

[certified106]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

I can't argue that the IR is beautiful but I question the long burn times that a cat stove can and does provide.. I read differing reviews when it comes to burning non cat stoves.. Cat stoves really shine on a long burns and that's a plus in more moderate weather when they can burn for up 12 hrs. .. Additionally cats also excel in uniform heat for long periods.. It seems the non-cats have improved on the long burns but are they really up to par with a cat stove in overall efficiency? All I have ever burned is a cat stove and I am very used to the heat they provide and quite frankly it's hard to ignore the uniform heat..

Ray

Ray, not trying to sway your opinion but so far I have had no problem with a ten hour burn and I haven't packed the firebox yet.
Honestly from what you are describing you want you should take a look at the Blaze King. It might not be the best looking but from what everyone here says you can stretch that 12 hour burn to 24 easily. Maybe take the wife to look at one and see if she really thinks it's that bad looking. Good Luck

 

[raybonz]

Agreed that a spanking new IR is expensive, but still worth asking if the dealer has one that they want to clear out at a discount. Would a floor model be ok? I'd stick with a 3 cu ft stove if the Alderlea which would be the T6.

I can't argue that the IR is beautiful but I question the long burn times that a cat stove can and does provide.. I read differing reviews when it comes to burning non cat stoves.. Cat stoves really shine on a long burns and that's a plus in more moderate weather when they can burn for up 12 hrs. .. Additionally cats also excel in uniform heat for long periods.. It seems the non-cats have improved on the long burns but are they really up to par with a cat stove in overall efficiency? All I have ever burned is a cat stove and I am very used to the heat they provide and quite frankly it's hard to ignore the uniform heat..

Ray

Ray, not trying to sway your opinion but so far I have had no problem with a ten hour burn and I haven't packed the firebox yet.
Honestly from what you are describing you want you should take a look at the Blaze King. It might not be the best looking but from what everyone here says you can stretch that 12 hour burn to 24 easily. Maybe take the wife to look at one and see if she really thinks it's that bad looking. Good Luck

I love the specs but not the look of the Blazekings otherwise they'd be a frontrunner.. Jess it's interesting that you can get such a long burn from a secondary burn stove.. Does your stove burn cleanly on a long burn? I would think you'd need a fairly hot fire to burn off the gasses/smoke on a stove of this type.. I still like the fact that your stove is a true convection..

Ray