Just installed a Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 Fireplace Insert

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JoelFireguy

New Member
Apr 2, 2015
1
Nanaimo, BC, Canada
I have a new Neo 1.6. Works great "but" sometimes when I'm lighting it there doesn't seem to be enough of a draft to keep the paper lit. I've used woodstoves for 20 years so it's not like I'm new at this but this is my first high efficiency one. Keeping the door ajar, closed doesn't matter. I leave the door open before I light it on cold days just to try to get heat rising etc. I'll try lighting a small piece of paper first to get a draft going. Nope. Smokes the place out until the paper goes out. Could it be and installation thing or is it me. Thanks for any help.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Hello Everyone,

I hope the summer is going well.

After continued extensive research I finally put a deposit down on an HI300 black matte finish like Velvetfoot's unit above. It is a floor model from a dealer that is out of state, but after negotiations the price for the unit and a 6'X25' liner was too good to pass up. I hope to take the road trip to pick it up in the near future.

I'm hoping to get some final feedback prior to picking it up.

Question #1.

The HI300 with a standard cast face plate has the following dimensions:

Minimum Fireplace Opening
Width (front)23.75" My masonry firebox - OK - 36.5"
Width (back)23.25" My masonry firebox - NOT OK - 21.5" - see notes below
Height21.5" My masonry firebox - OK - 28"
Depth17.5" My masonry firebox - OK - 19"


The one measurement that appears to be an issue is the width in the back. The unit has 2 small leveling feet attached to the back firebox. These are included in the final back width of 23.25". The back width of my firebox is 21.5" After discussion with a reputable local dealer I was advised that I could cut off those two leveling feet and the unit width would be exactly 21.5". We measured it at the store and that is the correct length It's the only way to have the unit fit w/o altering the masonry firebox. It would be tight, but it should fit.

I'm wondering if cutting off the rear leveling feet would void any warranty from Regency?

From the manual:
"The warranty will not extend to any part which has been tampered with or altered in any way, or in our judgment has been subject to misuse, improper installation, negligence or accident, spillage or downdrafts caused by environmental or geographical conditions, inadequate ventilation, excessive offsets, negative air pressure caused by mechanical systems such as furnaces, fans, clothes dryer, etc."

HI300 Manual
http://manuals.regency-fire.com/getattachment/94765557-a551-4347-9b24-7f875e9c1f05/HI300-English-Manual.aspx


Question #2:

One really annoying thing is my masonry firebox sits 1" higher then the tile hearth. The hearth is currently 18.5" from the face of the firebox. With this unit I will need hearth extension regardless.

A few options are being considered:

1. Custom hearth pad. This would work, but due to the wood trim work notches etc it could end up being costly. I'm thinking one granite piece, but I still have yet to price out the job.

2. Standard hearth pad- This is probably the easiest solution, but appearance wise may not be the best looking

3. Redo the hearth completely - This is extremely costly - I was quoted $1800-2000 to do so. Not really an option with the current budget.

4. The last option I am considering is using some cement board to build a template that will cover just the length of the cast iron face plate and the front section with some metal trim to match the matte black of the unit. Or I'd have some black metal pieces fabricated/welded as a basic frame to support the unit and frame then using basic standard thin hearth extension.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
First, the depth of the unit seems to be 17" to 17.5". How wide is your fireplace there? Maybe it will fit without alterations? Alternatively, check at which depth the back width is 23.25". That will tell you how far the unit would stick out if you would install it as is.
I'm wondering if cutting off the rear leveling feet would void any warranty from Regency?
That would be something to ask Regency; preferentially get it in writing. Or take your chances. Warranty claims usually come up because of problems with the blower, door or the firebox. Should that happen no one may notice that the leveling legs are missing. Did you talk with your dealer about how to level the unit without those legs?

A pic of the fireplace may help for the question.
 

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,009
Sand Lake, NY
Why does it have to extend more than 18.5"? I thought the manual says 18".

I can't visualize the rest, but I extended mine by taking up the tiles that were there, cutting the wood floor, and putting in granite tiles on top of some micore. It's a tiny bit higher than the floor but basically flush. Ember protection only required, as I recall.

The installer fabricated a three-sided frame to cover the small gap around the insert. I felt that would look better than getting the large surround kit.

Do those feet unscrew? I didn't install mine, so I have no idea.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Thanks Grisu.

I do plan to reach out to Regency direct to see what they say.

I'm hoping the using of non combustible materials can be used to level the unit if necessary.

2) NOTE: For Masonry installation make sure that the firebox is level with the hearth using non-combustible materials and no more than 1/2 to 1 inch of the leveling bolt.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Why does it have to extend more than 18.5"? I thought the manual says 18".

I can't visualize the rest, but I extended mine by taking up the tiles that were there, cutting the wood floor, and putting in granite tiles on top of some micore. It's a tiny bit higher than the floor but basically flush. Ember protection only required, as I recall.

The installer fabricated a three-sided frame to cover the small gap around the insert. I felt that would look better than getting the large surround kit.

Do those feet unscrew? I didn't install mine, so I have no idea.
My current hearth is 18.5" from the firebox.. With the unit extending about 12" out from the firebox I'll need something to support the weight along with meeting the 18" from the front of the door which appears to be 7.75" out so about 25.75" to be compliant with the front clearance.

I'm not sure if the feet unscrew, but it appears that the feet are a part of the outer box of the unit. I'd need to shave off the angled feet with a grinder. The dealer said this would not affect the performance of the unit b/c it's an exterior modification.

It might be a better idea to not cut off the leveling feet, have the unit stick out a little farther to make it fit and fabricate a frame to cover the gap. Hmmmm.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,210
South Puget Sound, WA
Some options to ponder on:
a) consider a small filler extension to the surround. It can be as simple as 1/2" aluminum angle stock painted black and attached to the back of the surround.
b) grind or chisel out a little of the rear masonry to achieve the width. It sounds like it will only take an inch from each side.
c) for the hearth pad, how high is the current hearth over the floor? If it is raised, simple ember protection might suffice. This could be black metal or perhaps copper if that fits the house decor better.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Some options to ponder on:
a) consider a small filler extension to the surround. It can be as simple as 1/2" aluminum angle stock painted black and attached to the back of the surround.

b) grind or chisel out a little of the rear masonry to achieve the width. It sounds like it will only take an inch from each side.

c) for the hearth pad, how high is the current hearth over the floor? If it is raised, simple ember protection might suffice. This could be black metal or perhaps copper if that fits the house decor better.
Thanks BG,

I agree that option A might be the best move to avoid altering the firebox and with keeping the unit intact. I need to take some additional measurements to see what the additional filler extension would be.

The current hearth is pretty much flush with the floor. It's basic white tile. I'm not a huge fan of the look, but ripping it out and redoing it is not in the budget right now. I'm considering covering it completely with a slightly customized granite remnant. That would solve the firebox height issue and the hearth extension issue at the same time. I just need to get some quotes.
 

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,009
Sand Lake, NY
If you're worried about modifying the fireplace because you, or someone, might want to take out the insert and use the fireplace, I imagine you'd have to take out the damper, and they don't usually remove that cleanly.
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
Do you know what is under the tile? AFAIK, the hearth of the HI300 needs some r-value. A simple type 2 hearth extension/stove board (~$100) may fulfill that requirement and get you through the first winter(s) until you have the time and money to redo the hearth.
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
I based my post on the Regency 2400 but it looks like the HI300 is the same. Here is the quote from the HI300 manual, p. 8:

"Floor protection must be non-combustible, insulative material with an R value of 1.1 or greater.*
Hearth thickness of 0.5" with k value = 0.84",
r value = 0.6 or greater.
Thermal floor protection not required if unit is
raised 3.5" min. measured from bottom of stove. At
this point the standard ember floor protection will
be required."
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
I based my post on the Regency 2400 but it looks like the HI300 is the same. Here is the quote from the HI300 manual, p. 8:

"Floor protection must be non-combustible, insulative material with an R value of 1.1 or greater.*
Hearth thickness of 0.5" with k value = 0.84",
r value = 0.6 or greater.
Thermal floor protection not required if unit is
raised 3.5" min. measured from bottom of stove. At
this point the standard ember floor protection will
be required."
So I originally thought just a basic Type 2 would do the trick, but then realized the the hearth sat 1" lower then the firebox. (currently I have the FP doors attached which hide the lip)

The concern now is that unit itself along with surround would be 1" off the floor and it aesthetically it would look bad and the unit won't be supported properly in the front.

One idea is to just get a basic 12" x 48" hearth extension for the unit itself and then another stove board in front of that as the actually hearth extension for clearance compliance.
 

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,009
Sand Lake, NY
Thermal floor protection not required if unit is
raised 3.5" min. measured from bottom of stove. At
this point the standard ember floor protection will
be required."
My bad. My install meets that qualification, so ember protection only required.

When you say, 'supported in front", what do you mean? There is no support for the fan unit that sticks out-there isn't supposed to be.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
My bad. My install meets that qualification, so ember protection only required.

When you say, 'supported in front", what do you mean? There is no support for the fan unit that sticks out-there isn't supposed to be.
OK.That's interesting. So the fan unit section is raised off the floor with a gap? 5" from the insert door. Maybe that's to avoid vibration noise? What about the front section with the door? 7" from face of the firebox entrance to the fan section? Does that need support?

I did notice in your photo that there appears to be a gap at the bottom of your unit with the fan chord under it. How big is that gap? Is that entire section of the unit not touching the floor?

If the fan section doesn't need support then I might have found a cheap temporary solution that might look pretty decent. It only extends about 10" from the fireplace but does have character. I'd use a stove board with it to complete the clearance requirement.
 

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,009
Sand Lake, NY
OK.That's interesting. So the fan unit section is raised off the floor with a gap? 5" from the insert door. Maybe that's to avoid vibration noise? What about the front section with the door? 7" from face of the firebox entrance to the fan section? Does that need support?
I don't think so-the insert rests on the front edge of the prefab fireplace. I don't think for this unit any more support is needed, but I'm not sure.
The fan grill that you see, along with the fan, pulls out for cleaning.

The cord comes out a hole in the fan shroud. There is a hole on the other side too, so it could be routed out that way too. The manual talks about that.

It'll work out. As my wife always tells me, "we can pay to have someone do it". :)
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Hi Folks,

As I prepare for the install for the HI300 I'm still struggling with the hearth situation. Rebuilding the hearth is too costly at the moment although I'm not a fan of the current tile hearth.

The hearth is basic tile and sits 1" below the brick firebox. It will need an extension regardless at it's only 18.5" from the firebox opening.. Since the HI300 will extend about 12" out from the firebox I want to be sure the unit is supported along with the surround isn't sitting 1" off the ground for appearance purposes and stability.

Most of the portable hearth pads that I've seen are 1.25".

I was thinking of installing a piece of custom granite or marble to cover over the current hearth and extend further out to cover the additional clearance specs, but it appears that the R-Value will not meet the R-Value specs.

HI300 Manual Specs:
Side and Top facing is a maximum of 1.5" thick. Floor protection must be non-combustible, insulative material with an R value of 1.1 or greater. * Hearth thickness of 0.5" with k value = 0.84", r value = 0.6 or greater.

Marble and granite R-Values:

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm

Any suggestions? One option would be to install a 1.25" hearth pad and use additional .25" brick inside the firebox to level. The issue I have is that the standard sizing will not cover the current hearth completely and it will probably look odd. Unfortunately due to the tight size of the firebox I will need to cut off the rear leveling legs to be able to install without manipulating the firebox.

Current Pics - Fireplace doors were recently removed.





All suggestions welcome. Thanks!
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
I would not worry about stability; there is a 300 lb stove in the back that will keep the front from tipping over. And the part that extends the most is the blower which has a negligible weight compared with the rest.

For the pad, have you looked at those? http://www.hy-c.com/hy-c-product/ul1618-type-2-stove-board-gray-slate/ Listed at 1" thickness and the ones I have seen looked like they have rather less than that.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
Thanks Grisu.

This might do the trick. It won't cover the tile completely, but I could probably paint the uncovered tile that shows to match the board.

I was struggling more with the 1" depth, but these meet that requirement.
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
If you get the 52" by 36" board you can just place it sideways and that should cover the tile judging from the pics. Btw. The minimum length of the hearth is usually measured from the door, not the blower etc. Check your manual but you may need less of an extension than you think.
 

SeñorFuego

New Member
Feb 25, 2015
33
Holliston, MA
If you get the 52" by 36" board you can just place it sideways and that should cover the tile judging from the pics. Btw. The minimum length of the hearth is usually measured from the door, not the blower etc. Check your manual but you may need less of an extension than you think.
Tile is 56" W so there would only be 2" of tile showing on each side. Assuming I go with the grey slate I could get some sample grey paint and paint the 2" X 18.5" section of the tile to match..

The door extends about 7.5" out from the firebox + 18" clearance = minimum of 25.5" total needed for clearance.

I might go with the 42" x 32" as that will support the unit and the surround = 40". The uncovered tile would be 7" on each side that I could paint.

I need to do a little more research and see if there are other standard sizes on these types of stove boards.
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
Grisu,
Any idea if these stove boards can be trimmed w/o affecting warranty/R-value?

I'd like to shave off 10" or so.

Thanks
You can look if you find some kind of manual or spec sheet on their website but I am pretty sure the answer will be no as it will lose its UL-listing.
 
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