Keep existing small unit or upgrade?

[Bluey]

Hi All,

First time poster, lurking for a while. I’m in southern Illinois. Last year, we moved into a house with a large, open great room (20 ft x 25 ft x 25 ft vaulted ceilings) that has a floor-to-ceiling fireplace. Shortly after moving in, my neighbor offered his Kuma aspen insert for free (1.6 cu ft box) and I got a insulated liner installed, and we enjoyed burning all winter. The unit is great, but looks a little funny because it is so small in such a large room.

We use the stove as supplemental but I always wish we could just shut down the heat pump and solely burn (great room was an addition and has its own heat pump - house is pretty inefficient).

Anyway, I’ve been pretty fixated on getting a larger unit and found a Lopi large flush (3 cu ft) for $5k out the door, without install (btw, installer is offering to swap my units for an additional $700 and I’m just too cheap to pay for that).

So, I can almost double my firebox for $5k or keep my 5 year old too-small-for-room Kuma; it was a struggle to get the room over 72 on cold nights.

I’m here to be convinced that I’ll see significant changes in heat output by upgrading, or that I should be frugal, use my free (sans labor) firewood and free insert and just enjoy what I get out of it.

 

[begreen]

Is getting a tax credit of 26% important? If so, consider the Osburn 3000 insert, assuming it will fit in the fireplace. Always check that first.

3500 | Wood inserts | Osburn

www.osburn-mfg.com

This stove will have a considerably higher output and longer burn time than the 1.6 cu ft insert and should come in for less than the big Lopi.

Was a block-off plate installed to seal off the damper area in the fireplace? If not, there is a notable amount of heat loss that can be addressed by installing one regardless of which insert is installed.

Also, is a ceiling fan running in reverse in the great room while the insert is burning?

 

[EbS-P]

Couple thoughts from someone who has a heatpump, a 1.6 cu ft and a another 2.4 cu ft downstairs. Total 3000 sq ft. Cold for us is the 20s.

Burning is fun. 1.6 cu ft looses it’s fun when you reload every 3-4 hours and are still cold.

I don’t ever think you will break even on the 5k to upgrade. All reports are the Aspen is a good unit. If keeping the whole house warm is a goal, the 5k would go a really long way on other weatherization projects that would have both heating and cooling ROI.

If you have 5 k of mad money and want to upgrade sure go for it. You will keep the room warmer. My self I went the cheap Drolet 1800i route. Left some money for more attic insulation which I hope to get to soon.

I wish I had a bigger than 1.6 cu ft about one- two weeks a year. Other than that it works well enough.

 

[stoveliker]

What is your temperature goal? 72 F (achievable now) seems fine to most folks to sit and stare into the flames..

Do you have ceiling fans? Vaulted means all the heat will pool at the top, not where your couch is.

 

[EbS-P]

What type of wood are you burning and how long was it sitting split and stacked?

 

[begreen]

The 3500-i is $3500, before the tax credit.
(broken link removed to https://www.osburnwoodstoves.com/Osburn_Wood_Insert_s/1814.htm)

 

[Bluey]

Was a block-off plate installed to seal off the damper area in the fireplace? If not, there is a notable amount of heat loss that can be addressed by installing one regardless of which insert is installed.

Also, is a ceiling fan running in reverse in the great room while the insert is burning?

No block-plate, but after a quick google, this seems like a good idea!

Yes, 3 ceiling fans are always running and I change directions seasonally. This of course helps but I am sure a lot of heat is hanging out in the ceiling...just a lot of air to move around.

 

[Bluey]

Couple thoughts from someone who has a heatpump, a 1.6 cu ft and a another 2.4 cu ft downstairs. Total 3000 sq ft. Cold for us is the 20s.

Burning is fun. 1.6 cu ft looses it’s fun when you reload every 3-4 hours and are still cold.

I don’t ever think you will break even on the 5k to upgrade. All reports are the Aspen is a good unit. If keeping the whole house warm is a goal, the 5k would go a really long way on other weatherization projects that would have both heating and cooling ROI.

If you have 5 k of mad money and want to upgrade sure go for it. You will keep the room warmer. My self I went the cheap Drolet 1800i route. Left some money for more attic insulation which I hope to get to soon.

I wish I had a bigger than 1.6 cu ft about one- two weeks a year. Other than that it works well enough.

Thanks for your input! I think the 3-4 hour reload is what gets me. The furnace kicks on around 3am (after a 9pm load) and runs a few hours over night.

 

[Bluey]

The 3500-i is $3500, before the tax credit.
(broken link removed to https://www.osburnwoodstoves.com/Osburn_Wood_Insert_s/1814.htm)

I have looked closely at this unit and even chatted with sales on the phone. It was my first pick until I started reading the forums here and hearing about everyone's cool inserts (e.g., Burn Kings, etc.).

 

[Bluey]

What is your temperature goal? 72 F (achievable now) seems fine to most folks to sit and stare into the flames..

Do you have ceiling fans? Vaulted means all the heat will pool at the top, not where your couch is.

Thanks for helping me think about this. After your and other comments, I am realizing longer burn times is what I wish I had, but I don't know if that justifies a brand new unit.
Yes, 3 52" ceiling fans across the vaulted ceiling. It really is a *great* room, very big, and I know the warm air is hanging out up top.

 

[begreen]

I have looked closely at this unit and even chatted with sales on the phone. It was my first pick until I started reading the forums here and hearing about everyone's cool inserts (e.g., Burn Kings, etc.).

There are several options in large inserts. It depends on what fits, meets clearance and draft requirements, reburn technology, ease of use, aesthetics, maintenance cycles, budget, etc. In reading, remember that everyone thinks their stove is the best one. The Osburn provides what may be the best current value in a large insert.
For running low and slow, a cat insert will work better, but for high heat output, a non-cat will often perform better. A big Osburn, Pacific Energy insert will burn for 10-12 hrs during milder weather and more like 8 hrs during cold weather. A BK Princess insert will burn for 24 hrs in milder weather and about 8 hrs. in cold weather.

 

[begreen]

Yes, 3 52" ceiling fans across the vaulted ceiling. It really is a *great* room, very big, and I know the warm air is hanging out up top.

As a test, try running one outer fan in the reverse mode and the other outer fan in down (summer) mode, leaving the center one off. The intent is to create a circular convective flow with that arrangement.

 

[stoveliker]

ok, burn time.

I assume you are turning down the insert a bit when it's not *that cold* outside, and that you can have decent burn times then.

If indeed the problem (short burn times) is mostly at the coldest parts of winter, then a larger firebox is needed (or insulation and air sealing etc. etc.). And as a (way-too-happy) BK owner I don't think you need to go with such an insert, because the BK shines most (in burn time) when turned down. When running harder when it's real cold, it does not have a burn time advantage over other modern stoves with similar firebox. (Apart from the even output facilitated by the thermostat.)

(There is even a debate about whether the BK performs worse than a similarly sized non-cat when running hard, with (undisclosed) numbers claimed by the mfg, who is honest and reliable imo, suggesting it should not, but with the occasional (!) user experience saying it does.)

Bottomline, yes, I would go to a larger firebox. The brands noted above are good - choosing any of those (based on matching conditions, $$, and the appreciation of a significant other...) will do well.

How tall is the chimney (from top of the insert to the cap)?

The question about wood posed above is appropriate: what is the moisture content of your wood? And if you can't (yet...) measure that, how long has it been split and stacked (and covered)? Wood that's too wet wastes a large fraction of its heat content in evaporating the water that's in it so it can flow through the chimney to the great outdoors.

 

[begreen]

Yes, with a good heat pump for milder weather heating, the main need will be cold weather performance.

 

[Bluey]

Is getting a tax credit of 26% important? If so, consider the Osburn 3000 insert, assuming it will fit in the fireplace. Always check that first.

3500 | Wood inserts | Osburn

www.osburn-mfg.com

Ordered yesterday! 5-10 days then the install fun begins.

 

[stoveliker]

Nice! If you can, show some pics after the install is completed. We all like to enjoy each other's set ups