Large Wood Stove Purchase Help

[Lv2trav]

I am new to the wood burning stove world, but reading posts on this website have really aided me in my level of understanding, so thank you!

We purchased a 3 story open floor plan home (think log cabin style with 1st to 3rd floor completely open) that has an Englander NC30 installed. It is in need of a lot of work and we decided to purchase a new stove. Also, we spent $650 in propane our first month so I would like to use firewood to at least cut this in half. I should also mention we seem to have a draft issue and I don't understand why. I had everything inspected and they said the chimney is tall enough and barely used. Every time I open the Englander to put wood in smoke billows out, even opening it slowly. Not pleasant. I tried to crack a window and it still happens. Could it be the stove? It is missing a baffle, one is half gone, one burner tube is missing and another is crushed. We also live beside a 100 acre pond/lake so not sure if that could be an issue?

We are looking for a large wood stove, and like the enamel finish, but I have noticed many of the large stoves outside VC don't have enamel. We like the PE T6, and are considering the Hearthstone Manchester, although our space does not allow for side loading. Any other recommendations? Would the PE T5 be far too undersized (like the enamel)? If push comes to shove we can get over the enamel, but I hope this is a one time purchase so want to get what we like to look at. The Jotul is nice, but again no enamel.

TThank you all in advance! Chris

 

[begreen]

Boy, it takes a lot to trash an 30-NC like that. Is the paint on it grey instead of black?

The T6 is a great stove, but if you want something a bit less expensive then look at the Ideal Steel from Woodstock and the Drolet HT3000.

 

[Lv2trav]

The sides of the NC-30 are blackish, but the top is a white gray. Does that mean anything? I have no idea how old it is as it was put in used by the previous owner.

I don't mind being in the $3-4k range with the tax credit being offered this year, and it being a long term purchase. I like the Woodstock, but the wife has vetoed it as she doesn't care for the look. She likes the T6, VC, and Hearthstone look.

I will check out the Drolet tonight!

 

[begreen]

The white gray indicates that the stove was overfired and exceeded the paint's rating. If you are going for the tax credit, you will want to watch the efficiency rating. It's just above the T6 rating. The Manchester qualifies.

 

[Lv2trav]

Wow, thank you! I was very close to deciding on the T6 with the expectation of getting the tax credit as the brochure states it is 80.5%. Until I read your post I didn't know there was an LHV and HHV rating.

Any comparable stoves to the Manchester that do qualify for the credit (other than VC)? Again, I like the Manchester but would be locking the side. I also really liked the T6 firebox size and North South loading. When we looked at the Manchester the firebox felt small.

 

[begreen]

For me, the credit is a teaser, but the right stove for what I want it to do is more important. The credit is for this year, the stove is for the decades that follow. There will be more stoves coming online. The Hearthstone GreenMountain stove look interesting too and the BK Ashford is a good looker as well.

 

[Highbeam]

Wow, the t6 isn’t even efficient enough for the tax credit?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

OK, let's get past the stove for a second. Let's make sure you're prepared for the new stove. Have you set aside wood? For 3 floors, you're going to need a lot of wood put up, and drying. It'll most likely need to be drying for multiple years. Test the wood you have. With only half a baffle, the smoke should never make it anywhere close to the door.

Also, how big is each floor? Are you asking too much of any stove? It sounds like the englander was pushed pretty hard. How tall is the chimney?

For such a large purchase, you may want to get the englander fixed up for a few hundred and buy yourself time to make the best purchase possible.

 

[peakbagger]

First thing to do is call your local electric utility and get an energy audit done. Eversource has a great program. You pay for the audit and they make recommendations on upgrades. If you have one of their approved contractors do the upgrades, they rebate the audit cost plus 50% of the upgrades up to $5000. They rank all the upgrades on payback. Odds are you will get your interior sills foamed and lot of air leaks dealt with. This will cut your heating demand down real quick. You also need to figure out your chimney/draft issues. Stoves are not the source of problem, its the chimney configuration. Take some photos and dimensions and post them. There are lot of folks on this site that can make reasonable guesses on what needs to be done. Usually downdrafts are related to short chimneys that do not go above the ridgepole but like I said we need details.

The other issue is that a 3 story high space is frequently referred to as a "barn". Warm air rises and you will roast out the top floor before you are comfortable on the first floor. You will need to come up with an approach to move the heat around. My guess is ductwork along the ridgepole down to the floor and blowers may be needed rather than paddle fans. Its just asking a stove to do too much. My guess is a stove optimized for radiant heat is better than one with blowers so lots of surface area is good thing.

 

[Lv2trav]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies! I think you are right about getting the Englander working to buy myself time. I ordered two new baffles and a new burner tube.

Unfortunately, I have liberty electric, but I will look into the audit as it sounds like a great program!

I got the fire going super hot this evening and it still spilled out smoke when I slowly opened the stove door. I even opened a door as I know I have pressure issues. I have felt the cold air blowing through the flue when it's not in use and when I open a door it blows far less.

We don't mind the barn effect as the third floor is storage and a tv room. Bedrooms are on the second floor.

The chimney is very tall. I am attaching photos. The angle makes the top look even or below the peak, but it is actually close to the 2 feet if not right at 2 feet of the top of the roof. I can take a photo from a different angle tomorrow if that would help? I had a cap put on by a chimney company and they said I didn't need to make it taller, but I am not overly confident that is the case as I don't know what else could be causing the problem?

I am also attaching a photo of the stove. I have added double wall pipe and a noncombustible wall to the left since this photo was taken. I also have a noncombustible mat for the front as it was a few inches short of the 16.

Thank you all!

 

[moresnow]

What does the chimney have for a liner? Is there a cleanout on the masonry chimney?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

When you go to open the door, are you opening the primary damper and key damper first?

 

[Lv2trav]

I believe it is a clay liner, and it has a cleanout at the very bottom of the chimney on the outside of the house.

I do open both dampers before opening the door, as well as a sliding door in the house about a foot.

 

[moresnow]

How well sealed is the cleanout ?

Any way to measure the inside dimensions of the liner?

 

[kennyp2339]

On the NC 30, make sure the baffles are pushed towards the back of the stove (2) boards, and that there are no gaps in the middle, if the secondary tube is compromised, the baffle boards may also have holes which is why you might be getting the smoke roll out, of course thats making sure there are no flue blockages either.

 

[Lv2trav]

I will take a look at the cleanout today. Can I measure the dimensions of the flue from the cleanout? If not, I will call the company that installed the cap and ask them. They should be able to tell me.

I had the flue inspected and was told it is like new. I had half of one baffle left in the stove. I have two replacements, but can only put one in as I am waiting for the replacement secondary burner #2 to arrive, and then I will have both baffles back in. I will make sure they are all the way to the back and touching.

Thank you for the continuing assistance.

 

[moresnow]

During your inspection was the chimney actually cleaned?

Have you pulled the connector pipe from the stove to the thimble to confirm its not dirty/restricted? Did the sweep do this? Its a area that really needs checked.

As previously mentioned/asked. What are you burning for wood? Did you purchase wood locally? Recently? Getting a moisture meter is a solid recommendation. Your smoke issue can be caused by many things but a choked off smoke path and wet wood are high on the list of culprits!

Do you have a pic of the new chimney cap? Many people have issues soon after a cap with mesh/screen is installed as they are notorious for getting plugged quickly if burning marginally seasoned or wet fuel.

If you get this ironed out the current stove is well known for producing big heat! Don't give up!

 

[Highbeam]

Looks like your pipe is installed upside down. I have an nc30 and it’s a fine barn heater type stove since it likes to run hot. That chimney looks huge.

 

[kennyp2339]

@Highbeam - good catch

 

[Lv2trav]

Hi,

Highbeam, are you referring to the pipe going from the stove to the chimney? If so, that has been replaced with double wall pipe. I will attach a photo later to make sure that wasn't installed incorrectly also. Also, I am assuming when they installed the new double wall pipe they confirmed there was no obstruction. They showed me that you can see from the cleanout straight to the top of the chimney and there were no obstructions visible.

The previous owner had it cleaned and the chimney company that inspected it said it was clean.

I purchased the wood from a local tree company last week. They told me it was seasoned, but I don't have a moisture meter to verify that. I will pick one up today.

I took a photo this morning of the new cap, see attached. Is the huge chimney an issue?

Thanks!

 

[kennyp2339]

I purchased the wood from a local tree company last week. They told me it was seasoned

Theres your problem other then the baffle boards and damaged air tube

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah, wood is definitely suspect. Frequently a woodseller's opinion of seasoned, and ours is different. Order more wood and put it up to dry properly. Ideally, you get yourself 3 years ahead so even the slowest drying woods get a chance to reach prime.

 

[Lv2trav]

Thanks. I bought a moisture meter. I will also buy some kiln dried wood I saw for sale at Tractor Supply to see if that fixes the drafting issue. Will report back!

Thanks.

 

[kennyp2339]

Dont burn that stove w/o the baffles in, if you need a fire for heat, take the middle tube and move it to the front so the boards stay in place.

 

[Highbeam]

Hi,

Highbeam, are you referring to the pipe going from the stove to the chimney? If so, that has been replaced with double wall pipe. I will attach a photo later to make sure that wasn't installed incorrectly also. Also, I am assuming when they installed the new double wall pipe they confirmed there was no obstruction. They showed me that you can see from the cleanout straight to the top of the chimney and there were no obstructions visible.

The previous owner had it cleaned and the chimney company that inspected it said it was clean.

I purchased the wood from a local tree company last week. They told me it was seasoned, but I don't have a moisture meter to verify that. I will pick one up today.

I took a photo this morning of the new cap, see attached. Is the huge chimney an issue?

Thanks!

View attachment 272538

The double wall should have stickers with an up arrow so you can verify it was done right. Double wall is good. I’ve been fighting some single wall today!

The chimney cap is large and so is the chimney but we can’t see how big the actual clay liner is. Your stove has an upper limit of actual flue liner size that it is designed to dump into. If the clay chimney liner is too big you can install a stainless steel flex liner to match the stove.

First, and easiest, is to replace those failed parts so the baffle and all tubes are proper and safe. Then fuel quality.

If fuel quality is low then you can buy manufactured firewood and burn that until your firewood has time to season.