Regency F2400M

[Parallax]

I have a 2800 square foot house with an open layout. For a few years, I heated it relatively well with a Blaze King Ashford 30, a real beauty of a stove in brown enamel. But my house is in the woods and we always had a problem with draw so I've gotten rid of it and am looking for something better suited. Ideally, I'd love to find a PE Anderlea T5 in brown enamel but to buy one new these days involves a degree of sticker shock that seems unwise.

I see a brand new in brown enamel one listed for $4,100, a price significantly better than what I was quoted locally, but it's 5 hours from my home. That's an option I am considering.

By the way, the house is now heated mainly by a minisplit heat pump system so the wood is now for backup. That's why a T5, though smaller than the Ashford, would be adequate. I'm no longer looking for something that burns 12 hours at a time. It's fine if I'm dumping a bunch of BTUs into the space and reloading every couple of hours.

I've also come across a Regency F2400M which isn't nearly as pretty but it looks like a large stove. Begreen has recommended Regency in other threads, as well as some of the other brands that offer reburn systems. This one was purchased in 2012 according to the current owner. He's willing to let it go for $1200 Canadian, which is $871 U.S. as of today's exchange rate. It's about an hour from my home.

Here's the listing:

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What do you think? This question is for anyone but I'd especially appreciate Begreen's opinion because I've long trusted his experience and depth of knowledge.

A 12 year old Regency F2400M for $871 an hour away which won't be that attractive but might presumably get the job done, a brand new Anderlea T5 in brown enamel which would look beautiful and presumably get the job done well for $4,100 five hours way, or keep my bat on my shoulder for now? Thanks.

Edit: Yet another option. A used PE Anderlea T6, not enamel, 11 years old, 7 or 8 hours away, $1,750. There's a guy selling an unused T6 who is much closer, maybe an hour away, but he wants $3,800, which seems like a lot for a stove that sells new for just a little bit more.

Suddenly, so many options. Really hoping to get the opinions of those who really know this stuff. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

The FB ad says $1200. Is $871 after the Candian dollar is exchanged? Better add an hour or more each way for the border crossings.

This should work out ok. It's a basic steel secondary tube stove and an easy breather. The firebox is a bit shallower than the larger Summit or Drolets (or Osburns) which makes it a bit more EW load biased, but at that price it's worth a try as long as it has been treated well. May need new firebricks and door gasket at this point, but that's under $100 if so.

 

[Parallax]

The FB ad says $1200. Is $871 after the Candian dollar is exchanged? Better add an hour or more each way for the border crossings.

This should work out ok. It's a basic steel secondary tube stove and an easy breather. The firebox is a bit shallower than the larger Summit or Drolets (or Osburns) which makes it a bit more EW load biased, but at that price it's worth a try as long as it has been treated well. May need new firebricks and door gasket at this point, but that's under $100 if so.

Yes, $871 is the U.S. equivalent of $1,200 Canadian as of today and the guy says he would take that. I have a Nexus card which will get me through the border fast.

What does EW load bias mean? Are you saying the logs need to be loaded east-west (or, in other words, side to side)? If so, that's not a problem.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’d have a tough time driving 5 or 8 hours away for a stove, even if it was a great deal. Reason being, it’d be harder to say forget it, this stove isn’t worth buying, if you found something wrong with it. Granted, not much isn’t repairable with a well made steel stove, but that’d be a bad ride home if there was something bad with it.

 

[begreen]

What does EW load bias mean? Are you saying the logs need to be loaded east-west (or, in other words, side to side)? If so, that's not a problem.

It's a good, workhorse of a stove. I think it will just take 16" splits loaded N/S but not any longer. 18" splits are definitely E/W only. N/S loading permits full capacity loading with no worry about logs rolling up against the glass.

 

[Parallax]

I’d have a tough time driving 5 or 8 hours away for a stove, even if it was a great deal. Reason being, it’d be harder to say forget it, this stove isn’t worth buying, if you found something wrong with it. Granted, not much isn’t repairable with a well made steel stove, but that’d be a bad ride home if there was something bad with it.

That's a good point. My wife ruled out the used T6 anyway. She didn't like the design of the door. So if I drive, it will be 5 hours rather than 8 and for a brand new enameled T5. Might be worth it. Shouldn't be anything wrong with a brand new stove. I guess the dealer could be baiting and switching. That would be super aggravating. I'll be sure to call and make sure the deal is firm and that he takes a deposit so I don't have to worry about it being sold before I get there.

But I'm leaning toward the less expensive stove so much closer to home.

 

[Parallax]

It's a good, workhorse of a stove. I think it will just take 16" splits loaded N/S but not any longer. 18" splits are definitely E/W only. N/S loading permits full capacity loading with no worry about logs rolling up against the glass.

That's a great point. When I had the Ashford, I tried to load N/S for that reason. But I'm sure the box would be fine. It's great to have two good options. Let me know if you think I'm better off driving five hours for a brand new T5 at $4,100 or one hour across a national border for the 12 year old Regency at $871. If you don't know or think it's essentially a wash, that's fine. I ask simply because I so respect your thoughts on these things. Ultimately my wife and I will have to decide if the extra money and effort is worth the upgrade.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’d feel better about driving 5 hours for a new stove over an older stove.

 

[Parallax]

I’d feel better about driving 5 hours for a new stove over an older stove.

Thanks my friend. I have that thought too. And then I think, well, it's just one hour for the other stove, and almost $3500 less. So there's that.

I'm going to call the dealer this morning and find out more.

 

[Parallax]

Just spoke with the dealer. He sells both stoves. The F2400 is now the F2500 but it appears to be essentially the same stove.

He raised the question of whether the burn tubes might need to be replaced on the 12 year old stove. How likely is that? Do burn tubes frequently fail? How expensive are they to replace?

 

[begreen]

If you are ok with the look of the 2400M then I would just go ahead and get a new large Drolet or Osburn 3.3 or 3.5 cu ft stove like the HT3000 or Myriad III.

The F2500 has the cat which adds cost and complication. The burn tubes on the FB stove pictured didn't show signs of sagging, but the picture wasn't great. If the stove didn't have too heavy use they could have years more life in them. If they need to be replaced, it's usually only one or two. Not a big deal or cost typically.

 

[Parallax]

If you are ok with the look of the 2400M then I would just go ahead and get a new large Drolet or Osburn 3.3 or 3.5 cu ft stove like the HT3000 or Myriad III.

The F2500 has the cat which adds cost and complication. The burn tubes on the FB stove pictured didn't show signs of sagging, but the picture wasn't great. If the stove didn't have too heavy use they could have years more life in them. If they need to be replaced, it's usually only one or two. Not a big deal or cost typically.

Thanks. Why do you recommend a new Drolet or Osburn over the used 2400M? I imagine I'd be looking $4,000 or more for a new stove whereas this one would be less than $1,000. Once I was paying that much, I'd sooner go for the Anderlea. I'm considering the Regency because of the significant cost savings.

 

[begreen]

For the most part the Drolet and Osburn equivalent are identical except for the door and baffle. The 2 cu ft T5 Alderlea is a lot smaller than the 3.3 and 3.5 cu ft Drolets, and totally different internally as well as having the cast iron cladding and swing away trivets. Visually it's a much nicer looking stove. That said, the Drolets/Osburns are very good, reliable workhorses. Which is better depends the aesthetic requirements and on how much extra heat is needed to help out the heat pump on those coldest days.

 

[Parallax]

For the most part the Drolet and Osburn equivalent are identical except for the door and baffle. The 2 cu ft T5 Alderlea is a lot smaller than the 3.3 and 3.5 cu ft Drolets, and totally different internally as well as having the cast iron cladding and swing away trivets. Visually it's a much nicer looking stove. That said, the Drolets/Osburns are very good, reliable workhorses. Which is better depends the aesthetic requirements and on how much extra heat is needed to help out the heat pump on those coldest days.

Thanks. I'm sure the T5 will be more than adequate to supplement the heat pump. I may have to reload often on those really cold days.

I now have to decide if I should go with the guy out of Oregon who will deliver the stove (to the back of my pickup truck) in Bellingham, where I live, for $4,300 or if I want to drive down to Kent, Washington (about two hours) and pay $4,442 for the same stove (the store owner really sharpened his pencil to try to match the Oregon guy, which meant a lower price to make up for some of the sales tax).

It's probably unlikely I'll need parts under warranty but it would be easier to drive 2 hours rather than 5 hours if I had to go there to pick up parts. My understanding is that all warranty issues are handled by the dealer who sold the stove.

Here are some photos of the chip. I think it's just one, but the photos also look like they're taken from different sides, so I've sent a message asking. It comes with touch-up paint. Is this pretty standard on these stoves and I should expect a little chip here or there? Or would I be better off paying the extra $142 and doing the 2 hour drive to get a completely unchipped stove from the guy closer to home? What would you do?

I could of course ask if he's willing to discount the price for the chip, though I have no idea what would be fair.

 

[begreen]

What were some of the other prices closer to home? How were the Canadian prices for a new T5 in comparison?

Note that dealers are going to be eager to move existing stock to make room for the next generation LE2 models coming out this summer. That could provide some bargaining room for a floor model. So far they have only announced the smaller firebox stoves, but more are in testing. The new stoves should pass the 75% HHV requirement and be tax credit qualified.

 

[Parallax]

What were some of the other prices closer to home? How were the Canadian prices for a new T5 in comparison?

Note that dealers are going to be eager to move existing stock to make room for the next generation LE2 models coming out this summer. That could provide some bargaining room for a floor model. So far they have only announced the smaller firebox stoves, but more are in testing. The new stoves should pass the 75% HHV requirement and be tax credit qualified.

That tax credit would make a huge difference. But the base price of the stove might be higher and offset the savings.

I will call the Canadian dealers. I called everyone on this side of the border and best I could do so far was the $4,442 two hours away.

I'm going to hold off on the stove with the chip. Unless the dealer is willing to discount to make up for it.

 

[Parallax]

What were some of the other prices closer to home? How were the Canadian prices for a new T5 in comparison?

Note that dealers are going to be eager to move existing stock to make room for the next generation LE2 models coming out this summer. That could provide some bargaining room for a floor model. So far they have only announced the smaller firebox stoves, but more are in testing. The new stoves should pass the 75% HHV requirement and be tax credit qualified.

Well, no floor models getting clearanced in Canada but there's still a possibility of saving money. It's closer to the factory, particularly if I'm willing to take the ferry to Victoria, where they are manufactured. Round trip on the ferry is less than $100 . I can get it for $3,720.41 U.S dollars at today's exchange rate. So I may do that. Warranty claims would require another trip to Victoria but it's unlikely I'd need to make a claim. Particularly as little as we're likely to use it.

I found out today that the T4 might be eligible for the tax credit. The U.S. dealer I spoke with had it at $5k, so the discount would take it down to $3500. Better off paying a bit more for the T5 in Canada. I will ask another U.S. dealer tomorrow, the one who really sharpened his pencil on the T5 and see what he's willing to do on the T4. But the T5 is already small for my 2800 square foot home. Since we're just using it to supplement, it's probably fine either way but I'd have to run the T4 hotter and reload more often. So absent a significant savings I'll stick with the T5.

I'm guessing the tax credit requires it to be purchased in the U.S. Do you know if that's true? If not, I might get a really good deal buying it in Canada and getting the tax credit. I'll also call PE tomorrow to find out if the T5 is likely to be eligible for the tax credit anytime soon.

 

[begreen]

The brand new T4LE2 is the one eligible. I don't think it is out yet, though there is a $250 off coupon deal for presale. Personally, I think the T5 is as small as I would choose for supplemental heat.

 

[Parallax]

The brand new T4LE2 is the one eligible. I don't think it is out yet, though there is a $250 off coupon deal for presale. Personally, I think the T5 is as small as I would choose for supplemental heat.

Do you know if they're redoing the T5 so it will qualify?

$3,720 isn't cheap. Add another $500 for installation and $100 for the ferry and maybe $100 for gas. $4,400 or so all done. Not exactly cheap but I can live with it.

 

[begreen]

Do you know if they're redoing the T5 so it will qualify?

$3,720 isn't cheap. Add another $500 for installation and $100 for the ferry and maybe $100 for gas. $4,400 or so all done. Not exactly cheap but I can live with it.

I think so, if the True North TN25c is an indicator.

 

[Parallax]

I think so, if the True North TN25c is an indicator.

Thanks. Tried to call them today but it was too late. They close at 3:30. Will try again on Monday. I've managed to get through to design people in the past who were willing to be candid. If the new stove will be complaint, and if it will work just as well as the old stove, I'd be inclined to wait. The price out of Victoria is good. I imagine the tax credit would apply even if purchased in Canada. They might try to raise prices again but they may find, like a lot of other companies, that they've overshot and have to start cutting. A lot of consumer goods are starting to be discounted. The covid stimulus has run its course.

I heard that it's going to use electricity. I'm not sure if the electricity will be on all the time or only during start-up. I imagine it would help with draw when starting the stove. I had a draw collar on my old stove but it kept failing. The wires would dry out from the heat and then short out. I could replace them but then they needed to be replaced again. It might last a few months.

 

[Parallax]

I think so, if the True North TN25c is an indicator.

If you can give me a little more advice, I'll be ready to make a decision.

Found out some more information. Spoke to a guy in product development at PE. He said the T5 will be updated eventually but it's probably around two years out. I don't want to wait that long.

The T4 will be eligible for the tax credit and should be available around September, depending on how long it takes the EPA to certify. He said both the T4 and T5 have the same output per hour. The T5 burns longer because the box is half a cubic foot larger. The new stove will be significantly more efficient but we're just using it for backup so I'm not sure how much that matters. He said he wouldn't trust the current T4 to burn through the night, though some customers say it does. Perhaps the new one would because of the enhanced efficiency. He's confident the T5 can be set up to burn through the night even though the box is only a half cubic foot larger (2.1 versus 1.6). He explained that the new T4 will use electricity is to keep it at the optimal burn temperature throughout the burn cycle.

It's been factory tested but since it hasn't been out in the real world. That makes me a bit nervous. The price difference isn't that much. I can get the T5 LE in brown enamel right now for $3,720 U.S dollars out the door. The T4 LE2 in brown enamel will be around $3,818 U.S. (depending on the exchange rate when it's available). ($5,111.58 Canadian vs. $$5250.56 Canadian.) So the new T4 will actually be more expensive but it should also be eligible for the tax credit. If I tack on $600 for installation, the total cost is $4,400 less 30% (or $1,320), so the ultimate cost is $3,100 for the T4 installed versus $4,300 for the T5 installed.

The other advantage of the T5 is the N-S loading, which should make it easy to run completely full. Given the E-W loading, I wouldn't count on being able to go through the night and if we're using as backup on colder days through the winter during the day, on those days we might have to reload every couple of hours. Plus, the T5 is real world tested and expert people like you attest to its quality.

So I guess my bottom line question is in my situation, with a 2800 square foot home with an open floor plan, with the stove being primarily to back up a mini split system that is the primary source of heat, if you would wait and go with the new T4 for $3,100 or just pay the $4,300 and get the T5 now.

This question is directed at BGreen but others are welcome to provide an opinion too. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

The T5 IMO is a better stove. It has a simpler design with the stainless baffle/secondary system, N/S loading, swing out trivet top, longer burn time, and is a simpler stove than the LE2 which at this point is an unknown as far as operation goes. What's important is the normal output, not peak. Pushing a stove at peak output for a long time will shorten the life of internals. The T4 nominal high output in EPA testing is 23,186 BTUs/hr. The T5's tested high output is 38,177 BTUs/hr. Of course this will vary with the wood and loading but it's closer to the day to day output.

 

[Parallax]

The T5 IMO is a better stove. It has a simpler design with the stainless baffle/secondary system, N/S loading, swing out trivet top, longer burn time, and is a simpler stove than the LE2 which at this point is an unknown as far as operation goes. What's important is the normal output, not peak. Pushing a stove at peak output for a long time will shorten the life of internals. The T4 nominal high output in EPA testing is 23,186 BTUs/hr. The T5's tested high output is 38,177 BTUs/hr. Of course this will vary with the wood and loading but it's closer to the day to day output.

Thanks so much. With that, it's settled. T5 it is. Really appreciate your help my friend.