Latest Stove Issue -- Please Help

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Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
922
Bellingham, WA
As previously mentioned, Chris (BKVP) had my Ashford shipped back to the factory last summer. They went through the stove, replacing parts and analyzing what likely had gone wrong last year. The stove is now back in my home, re-installed and running great. We no longer have too much smoke out the stove pipe. There's no back-puffing and we're getting nice long burns. My wood supply is way better (around 17%) and I know to burn everything in for a while before throttling down. The only issue with which I'm still dealing is a small amount of smoke in the house. It's less than last year, when the door wasn't sealing. Now the gasket looks perfect. Having done pressure tests on the stove, Chris is pretty sure the problem isn't with the stove but rather the draft (or, rather, the lack thereof) on the stove pipe.

I think he's right for several reasons. One is the house its in a dip, with a hill on one side and surrounded by woods on three. Also, the glass gets black unless the stove run at high. If I crack a window that's right behind the stove, most but not all of the smoke smell goes away, which would seem to indicate negative pressure in the house. It's newer construction that was well done so this doesn't surprise me. I think everything gets drawn up to the second floor skylight over the vaulted front entry, the high point of the home, which is acting like a secondary chimney.

Chris suggested re-attaching the air intake. The dealer installed it when the stove first went in but we removed it last year when we were flailing in our search for solutions. The way it was originally installed, a four inch pipe was just shoved up into the back of the stove. It didn't seem to do much because, when it was taken off, nothing much happened.

This time, Chris sent me the adapter that seals snugly to the back of the stove. This morning I managed to hook it up (which was not entirely easy given that the sheet metal at the bottom rear of the stove had been bent some by the dealer's efforts to shove the pipe into that space). But with a bit of bending, everything went together and the damage was covered over nicely by the adapter. So far, so good.

But then I was left with what you see in the photo: the need for a really tight elbow turn given where the dealer had punched the hole through the wall. The former elbow was properly placed if the plan was to shove one end high up into the stove. But with the adapter, the elbow is in the wrong spot.

I'm wondering if a tighter elbow can be fabricated. I've sent an e-mail to the dealer to see if there's anything he can do. Another option would be to drill a hole through the hearth pad and the floor, runing the air pipe straight down and out through the crawl space. But if a tight elbow could be created or a flexible but adequately heat resistant flexible pipe could be found, that would be my preference. I'd rather not make holes in a hardwood floor. When I pulled the cap off the pipe coming through the wall, there was plenty of cold air flow.

Please let me know if you have thoughts on how best to handle this. Thanks.
 

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I would is flex corrugated duct pipe. You may have to cut the pipe sticking out of wall back a bit, but flex will work and is fine for outside air intake.
 
Having a hard time believing that a leaky elbow on an OAK is causing smoke problems. Unless that house is hermetically sealed.
 
Having a hard time believing that a leaky elbow on an OAK is causing smoke problems. Unless that house is hermetically sealed.
I think he had it unhooked all together and is just trying to hook it back up properly hoping that the OAK will solve the problem... unless I'm reading it wrong.
 
Ah OK. Yeah flexible dryer vent would do it. Though not legal for dryer vents in most place anymore. And finding it that large won't be easy either. Get a piece from the duct work section in the back of Lowe's. Same thing that turns into floor vents. Or just rip the top two sections off of that elbow. You won't believe how easy they are to tear apart.
 
I would is flex corrugated duct pipe. You may have to cut the pipe sticking out of wall back a bit, but flex will work and is fine for outside air intake.
I looked at that stuff today but it didn't seem to make a tighter bend than the rigid pipe I've already got. Unless I ran it around in a big loop like a figure eight, but that would have to cut down on airflow.
 
Ah OK. Yeah flexible dryer vent would do it. Though not legal for dryer vents in most place anymore. And finding it that large won't be easy either. Get a piece from the duct work section in the back of Lowe's. Same thing that turns into floor vents. Or just rip the top two sections off of that elbow. You won't believe how easy they are to tear apart.
The flexible stuff doesn't seem to elbow that tightly but ripping a section or two off the elbow might do the job. Will see if that might work. Would you recommend cutting with tin snips?
 
They sell those close 4" adapters at any big box store such as home depot, menards, lowes.. etc.. for about the same price. Atleast you don't have to wait for it that way. They will be with the dryer vent hose.
 
They sell those close 4" adapters at any big box store such as home depot, menards, lowes.. etc.. for about the same price. Atleast you don't have to wait for it that way. They will be with the dryer vent hose.
Thanks. Will give it a try tomorrow unless I can manage to cut down the existing elbow tonight.
 
You just pull the elbow apart. You will be surprised how easy it falls apart. The reason nobody should ever use one in a chimney. You will end up with one end with an angle on it. Two words, silicone tape.
 
You just pull the elbow apart. You will be surprised how easy it falls apart. The reason nobody should ever use one in a chimney. You will end up with one end with an angle on it. Two words, silicone tape.
Yeah, I guess it would no longer make a 90 degree angle if a section were pulled off.
 
Two sections in that space you are working with. For what you are trying to find out the leg cut out of a pair of pantie hose would give the answer. Or a PVC elbow. Just to find out if it changes anything.

Which I do not believe it will. Time to start looking above the stove, not below it.
 
Two sections in that space you are working with. For what you are trying to find out the leg cut out of a pair of pantie hose would give the answer. Or a PVC elbow. Just to find out if it changes anything.

Which I do not believe it will. Time to start looking above the stove, not below it.
Well, then I'm screwed because I just don't get the draft necessary for this stove. Might have to trade it in on a non-cat. Or find some artificial way of inducing draft with fans designed for situations like mine. Neither solution would be ideal.
 
Wouldn't adding to the chimney height increase the draft? Are you using a liner or a free standing class a pipe? Is the pipe vertical or does it have bends, etc?
 
Wouldn't adding to the chimney height increase the draft? Are you using a liner or a free standing class a pipe? Is the pipe vertical or does it have bends, etc?
No bends. 26 feet straight up like a flagpole. BK says maximum height is 30 feet and it would be virtually impossible to make this one taller given the inaccessibility of a cherry picker and the need for bracing. It might be possible to box in the metal pipe to provide insulation. I imagine it would be expensive to get it to match the house.
 
Gotta ask a simple question. Did you seal the connection between the pipe and the flue collar? Not wanting to be irritating. After ten years I just had to redo that on my stove because when I lit it off for the first time this year I got smoke smell for the first time in 10 years. To see if that was the problem I wrapped a piece of silicone tape over the junction of the pipe and the flue collar and the smoke smell went away. Now I have to figure how to do a more permanent fix. Apparently that furnace cement I sealed the pipe to the flue collar with ten years ago has fallen/been brushed out.

And if you don't have sufficient draft for the cat stove you will be totally screwed with a non-cat.

BB - The non-cat guy that kinda sorta wishes he had a Blaze King.
 
Gotta ask a simple question. Did you seal the connection between the pipe and the flue collar? Not wanting to be irritating. After ten years I just had to redo that on my stove because when I lit it off for the first time this year I got smoke smell for the first time in 10 years. To see if that was the problem I wrapped a piece of silicone tape over the junction of the pipe and the flue collar and the smoke smell went away. Now I have to figure how to do a more permanent fix. Apparently that furnace cement I sealed the pipe to the flue collar with ten years ago has fallen/been brushed out.

And if you don't have sufficient draft for the cat stove you will be totally screwed with a non-cat.

BB - The non-cat guy that kinda sorta wishes he had a Blaze King.
Yes, Chris mentioned that there could be a leak over the stove. How would I check this?
 
When the stove is cold, and the cat damper is open cover the glass with a piece of cardboard and put a strong light inside the stove. If there is a leak space you will see it when you darken the room. With mine I just knew that it had to be coming from the connection to the pipe. Either that or I had a busted stove and wasn't buying that.

Also you could just darken the room and pass a flashlight under the flue collar from inside the stove with the cat damper open and have somebody look for a light leak.
 
But either way that flue collar/pipe connection should be sealed with furnace cement anyway. At best not doing it allows air to be pulled into the flue weakening draft.
 
But either way that flue collar/pipe connection should be sealed with furnace cement anyway. At best not doing it allows air to be pulled into the flue weakening draft.
If it's sealed up with cement, how would one remove the pipe to clean the stove? Mine needs to be cleaned from the bottom up because there's no way to get to the top. The pipe is like a flagpole.
 
If it's sealed up with cement, how would one remove the pipe to clean the stove? Mine needs to be cleaned from the bottom up because there's no way to get to the top. The pipe is like a flagpole.
By the way, Chris says they tested the stove for leaks and it was nice and tight. So the leak would have to be outside the stove.
 
Stove rope gasket and a hose clamp at the junction of the chimney and the flue collar of the stove. Not pretty if it is sitting out in the room but it will answer the question.
 
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