Living frugal, practical, saving money and raising healthy children

[Adios Pantalones]

Being a parent certainly does give you a different perspective but I wouldn't say that not having kids completely negates any thoughts you might have on the matter.

(It sure has not dampened the requirement that I subsidize children )

 

[Jags]

(It sure has not dampened the requirement that I subsidize children )

To the tune of thousands per year.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

We live surprisingly well on suprisingly little. It can be done. Our standard of living seems to be quite a bit higher than many of my relatives that make more money. Yet they are always broke. The biggest waste of money IMHO as i see it as follows.
1. Lottery tickets. Its amazing how much you can waste on this addiction.
2. Fast food,take out. Some people do this for 3 meals a day. No wonder they are 300+Lbs.
3. Latest electronic gadgets,video games ect. Got to have the latest one out!
4. Tobacco ,all forms
5. Cable TV

We eat out about once or twice a month unless on vacation. Other than that the above list does not apply to our 5 person family.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Just the other day one of my kids friends commented that they have a lot more expensive toys than my kids. Its important to note here that the kid in questions parents are in danger of losing their house due to not paying their RE taxes. Does this make any sense?
Iv never seen a correlation between good kids and expensive toys.

 

[firefighterjake]

Burn wood ... and have the kids help ... they might not like the stacking, but one day they will appreciate it.

Reduce or eliminate tobacco products, alcohol, junk food, lottery tickets and eating out.

Spend more on time with children instead of spending more on money for the latest electronics, toys, clothes, etc.

That said ... make sure children have time for themselves ... hauling kids around in a weekend marathon of going from one activity, group or sport back to back is not necessarily a good thing ... learning how to relax and find peace with one self by one's self is a good thing.

Look around the house and see what things you never use ... and have a yard sale or give to a charity. In this day and age it's nuts that we have huge homes and still have so much stuff sometimes that we need to rent storage units.

Set an example ... before purchasing things ask yourself if you really need that item ... or if you want that item ... and why. Is buying that second or third chainsaw really necessary ... is it necessary to replace that five year old car ... do you really need the latest phone ... or the largest ATV. Be content with all that you have ... and dwell not on all the stuff other people have.

Plant a garden.

Guess that's enough for now.

 

[DBNH22]

We live surprisingly well on suprisingly little. It can be done. Our standard of living seems to be quite a bit higher than many of my relatives that make more money. Yet they are always broke. The biggest waste of money IMHO as i see it as follows.
1. Lottery tickets. Its amazing how much you can waste on this addiction.
2. Fast food,take out. Some people do this for 3 meals a day. No wonder they are 300+Lbs.
3. Latest electronic gadgets,video games ect. Got to have the latest one out!
4. Tobacco ,all forms
5. Cable TV

We eat out about once or twice a month unless on vacation. Other than that the above list does not apply to our 5 person family.

I agree with all of these things.

We got rid of the cable TV two years ago. It wasn't even about the money. It was more about the fact that 95% of what's on TV is mind numbingly stupid and a waste of time. Since we got rid of it we get more done around the home and spend more time with the kids. Saving $60 a month is the icing on the cake. Sometimes I'll tell people that we don't have cable and they look at me like I just told them I believe Elvis is still alive. I guess it's hard for some people to believe that there other thinsg that could occupy their time at home.

 

[DBNH22]

Burn wood ... and have the kids help ... they might not like the stacking, but one day they will appreciate it.

Reduce or eliminate tobacco products, alcohol, junk food, lottery tickets and eating out.

Spend more on time with children instead of spending more on money for the latest electronics, toys, clothes, etc.

That said ... make sure children have time for themselves ... hauling kids around in a weekend marathon of going from one activity, group or sport back to back is not necessarily a good thing ... learning how to relax and find peace with one self by one's self is a good thing.

Look around the house and see what things you never use ... and have a yard sale or give to a charity. In this day and age it's nuts that we have huge homes and still have so much stuff sometimes that we need to rent storage units.

Set an example ... before purchasing things ask yourself if you really need that item ... or if you want that item ... and why. Is buying that second or third chainsaw really necessary ... is it necessary to replace that five year old car ... do you really need the latest phone ... or the largest ATV. Be content with all that you have ... and dwell not on all the stuff other people have.

Plant a garden.

Guess that's enough for now.

All good advice. Many feel to grasp the concept of need versus want. There's a great deal of psychological research behind all of the advertising that we're subjected to which has made it very successful.

Without a doubt the ugliest display of crass consumerism has to be the madness that is Black Friday. I wonder what Darwin would have to say about humans trampling one another to death to save $50 on the latest iPhone.

 

[BrotherBart]

Reduce or eliminate tobacco products, alcohol, junk food..

NO!!

 

[Badfish740]

We got rid of the cable TV two years ago. It wasn't even about the money. It was more about the fact that 95% of what's on TV is mind numbingly stupid and a waste of time. Since we got rid of it we get more done around the home and spend more time with the kids. Saving $60 a month is the icing on the cake. Sometimes I'll tell people that we don't have cable and they look at me like I just told them I believe Elvis is still alive. I guess it's hard for some people to believe that there other thinsg that could occupy their time at home.

Without a doubt the ugliest display of crass consumerism has to be the madness that is Black Friday. I wonder what Darwin would have to say about humans trampling one another to death to save $50 on the latest iPhone.

Ok...great, you don't have cable or shop on Black Friday. Would you like some kind of award? Look, I get that you're concerned about the world your kids are growing up in. Guess what? We all are. I'm sure you mean well, but when you post statements like this:

I often get criticized for criticizing others' parenting. "Who are you to judge?" But that's the new norm today with regard to parenting or anything else. All behaviors are equally acceptable and moral. Judgement, shame, those are just bad words used by intolerant people.

You come off like a sanctimonious blowhard. Not having cable or shopping on Black Friday doesn't make you a good parent anymore than having cable or shopping on Black Friday makes you a bad one. There's much more to parenting and to life.

 

[DBNH22]

Ok...great, you don't have cable or shop on Black Friday. Would you like some kind of award? Look, I get that you're concerned about the world your kids are growing up in. Guess what? We all are. I'm sure you mean well, but when you post statements like this:



You come off like a sanctimonious blowhard. Not having cable or shopping on Black Friday doesn't make you a good parent anymore than having cable or shopping on Black Friday makes you a bad one. There's much more to parenting and to life.

Good points. It's probably best to look at the sum of a person's behavior rather than just one example when judging them as a person. I don't think everyone that has cable TV is bad but as a general rule I far too many people's lives are centered around television and other forms of mindless entertainment and far too many people have forfeited the critical thinking process for soundbites and the status quo.

As far as Black Friday, have you ever seen the videos of these people trampling each other or feeding at the $2 DVD trough? It really is the epitome of today's crass, vulgar materialism.

Ultimately I don't care if I'm labelled sanctimonious, a snob, a blowhard etc etc We all judge each other all day long. I'd like to think I'm more up front and honest about it.

 

[Badfish740]

I don't think everyone that has cable TV is bad but as a general rule I far too many people's lives are centered around television and other forms of mindless entertainment and far too many people have forfeited the critical thinking process for soundbites and the status quo.

I'm willing to bet that it's far fewer than you think.

As far as Black Friday, have you ever seen the videos of these people trampling each other or feeding at the $2 DVD trough? It really is the epitome of today's crass, vulgar materialism.

Sure-I usually have a good chuckle afterwards too

Ultimately I don't care if I'm labelled sanctimonious, a snob, a blowhard etc etc We all judge each other all day long. I'd like to think I'm more up front and honest about it.

If you're that up front and honest about it in person you may want to make sure you have a good plastic surgeon specializing in rhinoplasty on speed dial. See the quote in my signature line? It's not just a catchy country tune by Billy Currington, it's a pretty good summation of my outlook on life. Loosen up a bit.

 

[Huntindog1]

Some of you ought to be glad you don't have kids. Raising kids isn't like it was when you were a kid. I hear so many people making comments about kids and school like its just like it used to be. I get a chuckle every time I hear those kinds of comments. If you have little ones all I have to say you better have them, adding and subtracting before they get to preschool. Yes I said preschool. And I would suggest all kids having 2 years of preschool before kindergarten. Extremism is in the educational system as kids from other countries are whipping our butts. All I can say is good luck and hope your kid isn't harmed by it all.

 

[DBNH22]

Some of you ought to be glad you don't have kids. Raising kids isn't like it was when you were a kid. I hear so many people making comments about kids and school like its just like it used to be. I get a chuckle every time I hear those kinds of comments. If you have little ones all I have to say you better have them, adding and subtracting before they get to preschool. Yes I said preschool. And I would suggest all kids having 2 years of preschool before kindergarten. Extremism is in the educational system as kids from other countries are whipping our butts. All I can say is good luck and hope your kid isn't harmed by it all.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Badfish740]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

So clue the rest of us in. How is school harming our kids? Again, I went through the public school system not all that long ago and apparently against all odds, turned out fine. How the heck did that happen?

Extremism is in the educational system as kids from other countries are whipping our butts.

Ah yes...this old chestnut. Guess what, the kids in the other countries "whip our butts" for two reasons. The first is that they cherry pick the students and we educate everyone. The second is that in other countries (China especially) children are simply taught to be human encyclopedias that regurgitate memorized facts on command-the lowest level of learning. In the United States and most Western democracies we teach at the higher end of Bloom's Taxonomy (analysis, synthesis, evaluation). Case in point, we had an intern in our office who was in the 11th grade here in the U.S.-he had gone to school in China for grades K-10. He was like a machine in terms of learning a process with clearly defined steps and being able to execute it flawlessly, but when it came to a task that required independent thinking he fell apart. Nice kid, but you could see how his thought process worked because of the environment he came from. That kind of education makes for good party members who serve the state and that's about it. Tell me again why we need to be worried.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I'm interested in what others may be doing to save money, live a frugal and/or practical lifestyle and raise healthy well rounded children as well as what you think of our current day American society in general.

Webbie could weigh in on this as he once stated that in his youth he lived on $1 a day for quite sometime. I started long ago when i was single.
Some of my friends made higher salaries than i did but i was the one spending 4 months on a south pacific island in the winter every other year. They all had new trucks every year though, so i guess its what ever you think is important, your priorities.
To each his own.

 

[Huntindog1]

Well the new advanced curriculums at new accelerated rates having no time to teach the basics. Learning and stress are related , look it up. Stressing kids out diminishes a kids ability to learn and to remember things. Learning is intimately connected with emotions. A kid feeling good about themselves is connected to how well they learn. We talk about education but its really neuroscience. Learning is a science.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

As a parent i try to take care of the kids needs ,but their wants are something they should work towards. You would not see nearly as many kids with expensive sneakers,phones,cars ect if those kids had to earn at least some of the money that pays for it. Something that comes too easy and without cost or work is seldom appreciated.

 

[Huntindog1]

I only say extremism is in the educational system As there is that mentality that we must have smarter kids than other countries. So win at all costs.
Plus we are now bringing in graduates from other countries at alarming rates.

A local College President reported to the visiting Parents that there are more gifted kids in India than we have kids totally in the USA. I know this as I was in attendance when he spoke.

 

[Ashful]

Maybe it's just me but it seems like our society becomes exponentially more shallow, materialistic, and immoral with the passing of each year. The cost of living for the middle class has increased more rapidly than salaries have. As the father of two young children I am trying my best to lead a frugal and practical lifestyle for my children. It's important for me that they grow up knowing that there are things far more important in life than video games, TV shows and shiny material possessions.

I'm interested in what others may be doing to save money, live a frugal and/or practical lifestyle and raise healthy well rounded children as well as what you think of our current day American society in general.

Interesting thread, and I would definitely agree with the "shallow, materialistic, and immoral," summary. I blame bad TV programming (eg, Real Housewives) for at least two of those three factors.

However, on the cost of living in the middle class, it actually appears much the opposite, to me. Maybe folks are just living beyond their means, compared to my parents' generation, but they seem to be doing without less. Central air conditioning and two new cars seems to be the norm, along with a few wide-screen LCD's, computers, iPads, smart phones, and nice bicycles for the kids. I didn't know too many friends so well off in the 1970's / 80's.

Computers, TV's, bicycles, appliances... all the expensive things that fill the house of the average middle class family can be had for a very small fraction of what they cost our parents. I think each of our bicycles cost my dad close two days of his salary at the time, I just bought my son a bike for less than I make per hour, and my job title now is what his was then. My dad's 19" color TV in 1980 cost the same (not adjusted) as my new 70" LCD. I didn't know anyone who bought a new car before age 40, when I was growing up... now kids seem to be getting them as college graduation presents.

Coming around to your main point though, it's a real challenge to make kids understand the value of working for a dollar, and being frugal with what you have. Then again, maybe we're focused on preparing them for the world that was, rather than the world that is. The Amish near here had an enormous battle with the state many years back, over pulling their kids out of school after grade 8. The state argued that these kids wouldn't be prepared for life in this world. The Amish asked, "who's world, yours or ours?"

Me? I always liked the Cliff Huxtable model:
Theo: Dad, are we rich?
Cliff: No, you're poor. Your mother and I are rich, but you're poor.

 

[firefighterjake]

NO!!

Thought that might get a rise out of you.

 

[firefighterjake]

So clue the rest of us in. How is school harming our kids? Again, I went through the public school system not all that long ago and apparently against all odds, turned out fine. How the heck did that happen?



Ah yes...this old chestnut. Guess what, the kids in the other countries "whip our butts" for two reasons. The first is that they cherry pick the students and we educate everyone. The second is that in other countries (China especially) children are simply taught to be human encyclopedias that regurgitate memorized facts on command-the lowest level of learning. In the United States and most Western democracies we teach at the higher end of Bloom's Taxonomy (analysis, synthesis, evaluation). Case in point, we had an intern in our office who was in the 11th grade here in the U.S.-he had gone to school in China for grades K-10. He was like a machine in terms of learning a process with clearly defined steps and being able to execute it flawlessly, but when it came to a task that required independent thinking he fell apart. Nice kid, but you could see how his thought process worked because of the environment he came from. That kind of education makes for good party members who serve the state and that's about it. Tell me again why we need to be worried.

This could also explain why some affluent Chinese families are now sending their children to high schools here in the U.S. ... at private, religious and public schools.

 

[DBNH22]

Interesting thread, and I would definitely agree with the "shallow, materialistic, and immoral," summary. I blame bad TV programming (eg, Real Housewives) for at least two of those three factors.

However, on the cost of living in the middle class, it actually appears much the opposite, to me. Maybe folks are just living beyond their means, compared to my parents' generation, but they seem to be doing without less. Central air conditioning and two new cars seems to be the norm, along with a few wide-screen LCD's, computers, iPads, smart phones, and nice bicycles for the kids. I didn't know too many friends so well off in the 1970's / 80's.

Computers, TV's, bicycles, appliances... all the expensive things that fill the house of the average middle class family can be had for a very small fraction of what they cost our parents. I think each of our bicycles cost my dad close two days of his salary at the time, I just bought my son a bike for less than I make per hour, and my job title now is what his was then. My dad's 19" color TV in 1980 cost the same (not adjusted) as my new 70" LCD. I didn't know anyone who bought a new car before age 40, when I was growing up... now kids seem to be getting them as college graduation presents.

Coming around to your main point though, it's a real challenge to make kids understand the value of working for a dollar, and being frugal with what you have. Then again, maybe we're focused on preparing them for the world that was, rather than the world that is. The Amish near here had an enormous battle with the state many years back, over pulling their kids out of school after grade 8. The state argued that these kids wouldn't be prepared for life in this world. The Amish asked, "who's world, yours or ours?"

Me? I always liked the Cliff Huxtable model:
Theo: Dad, are we rich?
Cliff: No, you're poor. Your mother and I are rich, but you're poor.

That's a good point about the luxury items and how they're more affordable today. Aside from the financial aspect of it I'm also interested in the philosophical arguments behind it. As a society we're increasingly measuring our worth as people and our happiness by the amount of money we make or the quantity and quality of our material possessions.

When a mom or dad works 60 hours a week or more so that they can afford a big fancy house with lots of nice furniture, appliances and electronic gadgets in it and two expensive vehicles in the garage but has no time to ever; eat dinner with the children, go to their sports games, play with them in the yard, read them a book, etc etc then is it really worth it? I say no. How many on their deathbeds look back upon their life and think "gee I wish I'd spent more time at work." I'd think very few. It's more like "I wish I'd spent more time with the kids or wife and less at work."

Yes youtube videos of Black Friday are funny. But if you think about it for more than minute rather than just laughing and shrugging it off it's actually quite disturbing. Consider that people have actually died on numerous occasions because of this phenomenon. How funny would it be if someone you cared about was trampled to death at a Walmart by a bunch of people trying to save a few bucks on a DVD player?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I had the luxury to make less money and work 3 days a week (Thanks mostly to my wife's amazing support). Not going to brag about our lifestyle like a jackass- our tastes are fairly simple, but we more or less do what we want.

I was on a field test with a young engineer and a software person who is a mom- the young engineer was blown away by the idea that I can play PS3 if I really want, though I'm married and mid 40's. My secret- no kids. He was more or less convinced to not have kids by the end of the fielding, though the "Idiocracy" argument was discussed.

When I have had serious heart to heart conversations with older folks- some have said (with the caveat of loving their kids more than life, etc) that if they could go back in time, they would have thought longer about whether having kids was the right decision or if it was as inevitable as it was thought. Reducing the impact on the environment through our choices seems wise- just pointing out that not putting more people on the Earth could be part of that choice.

 

[Badfish740]

That's a good point about the luxury items and how they're more affordable today. Aside from the financial aspect of it I'm also interested in the philosophical arguments behind it. As a society we're increasingly measuring our worth as people and our happiness by the amount of money we make or the quantity and quality of our material possessions.

There you go again with the "we." You seem to projecting this attitude on everyone around you just so that you can trumpet that you're so above it all.

When a mom or dad works 60 hours a week or more so that they can afford a big fancy house with lots of nice furniture, appliances and electronic gadgets in it and two expensive vehicles in the garage but has no time to ever; eat dinner with the children, go to their sports games, play with them in the yard, read them a book, etc etc then is it really worth it? I say no. How many on their deathbeds look back upon their life and think "gee I wish I'd spent more time at work." I'd think very few. It's more like "I wish I'd spent more time with the kids or wife and less at work."

I think you're missing something. Are there folks who work crazy hours to afford a fancy upper middle class lifestyle all the while neglecting their kids? Sure. What really concerns me is the fact that in many cases today, both parents have to work out of the home just to make a decent living and afford a home in a good school district/community. I make $46K a year and work 40 hours a week with an hour commute each way, but that $46K alone just covers the mortgage on my 1960s era 2 bedroom 1 bath 1000SF ranch "starter home" with a $7000 a year property tax bill. That's why my wife has to work. We don't want it to be that way, but the alternative is either renting in a decent area and never building equity in a home or moving to an area with cheaper homes and (usually) poorer performing schools)-at least for New Jersey and the surrounding area, living a "simple" lifestyle costs far too much money. There are lots of parents we know who are in the same boat. We don't drive fancy cars, we do potluck cookouts on weekends together, we trade coupons, and a couple of us help each other process wood for the winter.

How funny would it be if someone you cared about was trampled to death at a Walmart by a bunch of people trying to save a few bucks on a DVD player?

I wouldn't think it was funny, but I also wouldn't drive myself crazy thinking about it.

 

[Lake Girl]

As to morals and values, my husband and I made the choice of one working parent when our kids were younger. Why have children if someone else is going to raise them (ie day care)? By grade school, your value system has been passed on. A big expectation for us was higher education - trade school, university, college.

Education savings plans have been essential in putting our 6 children through university; started when they were babies ... just pay attention to the rules. We contributed a reasonable amount - not what they projected we should invest but what we could afford. These plans covered tuition and book costs. Minimal, if any, student loans. When the kids started working as teens, they had two bank accounts and split their pay between the two. One for them to use and one for post-secondary education.

Our house is big on hand-me-downs or recycles. Furniture is a big one for me ... many pieces have been acquired from parents/grandparents. All our dressers are real wood - some in sad shape when they were acquired - multiple layers of paint and drawers that had to be reglued. When my son moved out, I finally refinished his dresser. He was amazed it was the same dresser! Saved him that additional cost... a gift from his Great-Aunt with Mom's help. The same can be done with garage sale and second hand shop finds. Clothes are a mix of new and hand-me-down... their cousins can be seen sporting some of my kids old clothes that have been outgrown. The girls have gone to another level - checking out second hand clothes stores in the hopes of vintage finds! There are many clothes exchanges for kids - just have to find them. Frugal and less to go to a land-fill.

Home-grown/home-cooked is the best. Better for you and less costly. Fast/Restaurant food should be the rarity. This has become more important in our household as some of us have intolerances to food dyes, preservatives and conditioners of processed food. Interesting book by Dr. Terry Wahl who has diminished the progression of her MS by a variation of a paleo diet. Her Ted Talk: http://terrywahls.com/minding-your-mitochondria-dr-terry-wahls-at-tedxiowacity/

So far so good; no teenage pregnancy, no drug problems, 3 of the 6 educated (3 in progress). YMMV