Local Dealer installed insert incorrectly in 2017 - any recourse?

[Amin1992]

Hey guys, will try to keep this quick. We purchased a home in 2019 with a Heatilator wood stove insert installed in a mason fireplace. The previous owner had the insert installed in 2017, so 3 years ago now.

We had a chimney sweep come out to sweep and inspect and they found that it was installed incorrectly. The stainless steel flue only extends a few feet out of the insert and then enters the original 1970s terra cotta chimney. No block off plate either, just some sort of insulation filling in the gaps between the stainless liner and the opening to the terra cotta chimney. They informed me I need a stainless flue that goes from the insert, all the way out of the chimney at the roof.

Sweep informed us this is similar to a Direct Connect install that is against manufacturer's approved install, and is dangerous as you cannot get to the creosote that can form between the stainless and terra cotta chimneys.

Anyway, a neighbor let me know that the insert was installed by a large local wood stove dealer that is approved by Heatilator. I contacted them and they confirmed they did install but that no issues were reported with the insert after install.

I just want to confirm, they did install this incorrectly right? They have not gotten back to me since I explained the issues, but I feel like they should fix this issue as it's dangerous and incorrect. However, not sure if I can get anywhere with them as it was with the previous owner AND 3 years ago. To get the stainless flue on my own will be $2.5k so this isn't some simple cheap repair.

I'd appreciate your input here. Do you think they should fix this or no? Have any of you dealt with this before? I'm shocked a reputable dealer would install like this. Thanks for the help.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Yes, it should be corrected. I do not believe an insulated liner should cost that much.

 

[Amin1992]

Yes, it should be corrected. I do not believe an insulated liner should cost that much.

Thank you for the response. I don't believe a liner in itself is that much but the install is around $2.5k. I got 3 quotes and the $2.5k was cheapest, followed by $2.7k and $3k.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

My mistake, I was assuming you would drop the liner in yourself.

 

[BigJ273]

Still seems kinda high for a liner I would think. As for recourse, especially since you aren’t the original owner/purchaser, I think legally you have none. Three years is normally the statute of limitation for civil issues anyway.

 

[bholler]

Hey guys, will try to keep this quick. We purchased a home in 2019 with a Heatilator wood stove insert installed in a mason fireplace. The previous owner had the insert installed in 2017, so 3 years ago now.

We had a chimney sweep come out to sweep and inspect and they found that it was installed incorrectly. The stainless steel flue only extends a few feet out of the insert and then enters the original 1970s terra cotta chimney. No block off plate either, just some sort of insulation filling in the gaps between the stainless liner and the opening to the terra cotta chimney. They informed me I need a stainless flue that goes from the insert, all the way out of the chimney at the roof.

Sweep informed us this is similar to a Direct Connect install that is against manufacturer's approved install, and is dangerous as you cannot get to the creosote that can form between the stainless and terra cotta chimneys.

Anyway, a neighbor let me know that the insert was installed by a large local wood stove dealer that is approved by Heatilator. I contacted them and they confirmed they did install but that no issues were reported with the insert after install.

I just want to confirm, they did install this incorrectly right? They have not gotten back to me since I explained the issues, but I feel like they should fix this issue as it's dangerous and incorrect. However, not sure if I can get anywhere with them as it was with the previous owner AND 3 years ago. To get the stainless flue on my own will be $2.5k so this isn't some simple cheap repair.

I'd appreciate your input here. Do you think they should fix this or no? Have any of you dealt with this before? I'm shocked a reputable dealer would install like this. Thanks for the help.

Well some manufacturers do allow a direct connect if certain criteria are met. But it is a very poor way to install an insert. Yes you should have a full insulated liner installed. And no I don't think you have any way to get the original installer to cover that. Especially since you didn't contract that work.

 

[Mech e]

You are in a tough spot nor being the original owner. If the dealer doesn't want to make it right, perhaps you coul negotiate splitting the cost; you pay for materials and they provide the labor. If they are not willing to do that, you coul let them know you will then have to post some negative reviews on social media. I would also work on Heatilator about resolution since they are an appoved reseller.

 

[Amin1992]

You are in a tough spot nor being the original owner. If the dealer doesn't want to make it right, perhaps you coul negotiate splitting the cost; you pay for materials and they provide the labor. If they are not willing to do that, you coul let them know you will then have to post some negative reviews on social media. I would also work on Heatilator about resolution since they are an appoved reseller.

Thank you. Will give them a chance to get back to me and go from there. THanks

 

[spudman99]

Having sold many houses, I agree you are in a tough spot. Several questions pop out initially:

1. Did the prior owner pull a permit for the installation? If not than its harder to claim foul on the install as the owner is typically held responsible for the permit (can delegate that to the installer but not the ultimate responsibility). Township will typically sign off on proper or legal installations only. If no permit, then the onus is back on the owner who will then share responsibility. Me thinks you lose in this one.

2. Statute of limitations on construction defects in PA or breach of contracts is 4 years. You would need to consult an attorney to confirm that and if there is an implied or express warranty that follows the house into your ownership.

3. Price for a liner install should be closer to the $1.5k to $2k range. Your pricing may have been influenced by the time of year you got them (December 2019) and when the weather conditions making it harder to do. Just wait till May or June to have it done and it may be cheaper.

I remember your earlier posts where you weren't to concerned about changing this insert based on limited use. Have you moved off of that thought?

 

[john26]

Did you have the insert and chimney inspected before you bought the House? or general home inspection?

 

[Amin1992]

Having sold many houses, I agree you are in a tough spot. Several questions pop out initially:

1. Did the prior owner pull a permit for the installation? If not than its harder to claim foul on the install as the owner is typically held responsible for the permit (can delegate that to the installer but not the ultimate responsibility). Township will typically sign off on proper or legal installations only. If no permit, then the onus is back on the owner who will then share responsibility. Me thinks you lose in this one.

2. Statute of limitations on construction defects in PA or breach of contracts is 4 years. You would need to consult an attorney to confirm that and if there is an implied or express warranty that follows the house into your ownership.

3. Price for a liner install should be closer to the $1.5k to $2k range. Your pricing may have been influenced by the time of year you got them (December 2019) and when the weather conditions making it harder to do. Just wait till May or June to have it done and it may be cheaper.

I remember your earlier posts where you weren't to concerned about changing this insert based on limited use. Have you moved off of that thought?

1. I dont believe permit was pulled. I'm also not entirely sure it was required in my township as the brick fireplace already existed.
2.good to know thank you
3. I actually got the quote for a date of August. I'm outside of a major east coast city, so maybe that is why? I could not find anyone to do it under $2.5k. Maybe it's because my chimney is rectangular, making it more difficult to get a liner in ?

Did you have the insert and chimney inspected before you bought the House? or general home inspection?

No unfortunately

 

[bholler]

The original installer is not going to cover the cost of in talking a liner at all it just isn't going to happen.

 

[PaulOinMA]

Do you have the owner's manual? If not, can you access it online? Should have a section on installation.

I have a Lopi Answer. For example, look on pages 16 and 17 of the following owner's manual.

(broken link removed to https://www.lopistoves.com/TravisDocs/100-01510.pdf)

I have a full liner even though page 17 shows that it may be installed without it.

 

[Mech e]

This language is used in the current Heatilator Wood Insert Installation Manual: "Should be lined with a 6 inch (152mm) stainless steel flue liner to improve performance and reduce creosote build-up." This statement would imply that the liner is optional. If true, the installation would be to mfg specs. Not sure about state or local requirements.

 

[bholler]

This language is used in the current Heatilator Wood Insert Installation Manual: "Should be lined with a 6 inch (152mm) stainless steel flue liner to improve performance and reduce creosote build-up." This statement would imply that the liner is optional. If true, the installation would be to mfg specs. Not sure about state or local requirements.

A direct connect meets minimum code if done properly. But the op has no recourse even if it doesn't they were not the customer. They should have had an inspection done