Looking for a indoor boiler add on or a new wood boiler

[heavy hammer]

I have a burnham natural gas boiler that can easily heat my house was either looking to put a wood add on to it or possibly replace with a new wood boiler most boiler guys in my area don't know much about the wood boilers. I heat 3/4 of my house now with an jotul Oslo 500 but if I could run all the heat with a wood boiler would be even better. Looking for some help my house is little smaller than 1800 sq feet. I have years of firewood already cut split stacked, looking to kill two birds with one stone and completely cut myself from the natural gas companies.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

IT is nice to have a backup heat source like the gas,but personally i prefer oil as a backup cuz the gas people still get their pound of flesh with those meter and minimum bill charges ,so even if you use no gas at all your still paying every month. With the oil as backup if i dont use any i dont pay anything.

 

[heavy hammer]

That's one of the other reasons I was looking at the wood add on. I would still have the Oslo and the natural gas boiler for backups.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

A backup is nice in shoulder season where you get 1 or 2 cold overnights a week ,and when you want to go somewhere for a few days and dont want to have to babysit your wood stove. I probably wont use more than $100 worth of oil in the 3 to 4 months of shoulder season that would be the minimun bill anyway for the gas. Rest of the year your paying the gas minimum for nothing. I have a gas line here but i havnt had it connected for about 20 years. WHen I did inquire about having it turned on ,they wanted me to pay for all the months its was turned off ,told them to shove it.

 

[heavy hammer]

That is one of the reasons for looking into the wood boiler add on. I can burn when needed but have the gas backup.

 

[JohnDolz]

That is one of the reasons for looking into the wood boiler add on. I can burn when needed but have the gas backup.

I installed a indoor wood boiler last year with thermal storage and absolutely love it. I am heating about 5,000 sqft to 72 degrees on about 7 cord of wood. I have it tied to a controller so that if I am travelling and my wife doesn't feel like starting a fire the system automatically switches over to my propane boiler. Once the thermal storage tank temp goes above the set point the propane boiler disengages (either boiler system is "powering" my baseboard hot water). If you were to go with an indoor gasification boiler (35kw range) and 400 - 600 gallons of thermal storage you will be amazed. Shoulder seasons will take 1 fire every 2 - 3 days, cold season 1 fire a day, super cold 2 fires a day. With a good gasification boiler you start the fire, load the box, close the door and walk away. Not sure if any of this helps.

 

[heavy hammer]

It does. Would I need a storage tank or do they make a add on that is just like my current boiler. I don't know a lot about them but I'm trying to educate myself. My current boiler now doesn't have a storage tank. When heat is needed the boiler fires up and the pump circulates the water. What brand do you have or recommend

 

[JohnDolz]

It does. Would I need a storage tank or do they make a add on that is just like my current boiler. I don't know a lot about them but I'm trying to educate myself. My current boiler now doesn't have a storage tank. When heat is needed the boiler fires up and the pump circulates the water. What brand do you have or recommend

The idea behind gasification is to run all out for the entire burn cycle (no up/down) this usually gets you 3 - 5 hours of 2,000 degree production which is more than the house can use so you need to store the energy somewhere (the water storage tank - I like to think of it as a rechargeable battery. The battery heats the house all day, the boiler just recharges the battery as needed. Keep in mind this is not a low cost option but in the long run it will pay for itself, is super efficient, good for the environment and whatever else you need to tell yourself to justify the investment. I have an Effecta, am very happy with it and the manufacturer has been wonderful to me.

 

[heavy hammer]

What would a setup like this run ball park figure. Appreciate the help will look into the Effecta. Can this be ran with a current natural gas boiler already there. Other than the wood boiler and storage tank what else would I need.

 

[JohnDolz]

What would a setup like this run ball park figure. Appreciate the help will look into the Effecta. Can this be ran with a current natural gas boiler already there. Other than the wood boiler and storage tank what else would I need.

Hard to say what a system would cost, depends on what you chose to go with, your own mechanical ability, etc. If pushed I would probably guess $10k at minimum. The boiler and the tank are really the core, on top of that is obviously copper piping, insulate the tank, a mixing pump to drive the system, etc. - this will vary based on who/how you choose to install it. You can run these systems as standalone or tied into your existing system. I have mine tied to a set point controller, as long as the storage tank temperature is above my set point my propane boiler remains ideal. Once temp drops below the set point the storage system gets isolated out of the heating loop and next time there is a call for heat my propane boiler fires up (this is all wired so it happens automatically. There are some really smart people that can help you with your education, mine is just 1 persons opinion.

 

[airlina]

This setup cost in the neighborhood of 15K ,with me doing all labor. Heats 1800 sq ft log house.

 

[JohnDolz]

View attachment 170466 View attachment 170467

This setup cost in the neighborhood of 15K ,with me doing all labor. Heats 1800 sq ft log house.

Looks awesome, nice and clean! I chose not to insulate the tank itself, I isolated my tanks in an "insulated room". Basically built walls and ceiling around the tank with the rigid insulation board (the shiny covered kind). I used 2 sheets to make a total of 2" all around, seems to work really well. My thinking was that if there ever was a leak or if the tanks need to be worked on it would be easier.

 

[heavy hammer]

Thanks for the feedback. Going to start doing some research. I am a pretty resourceful guy plus my father is pretty good at plumbing. Biggest problem I'm having is guys that do installs like this for a living and where to get this stuff. Setups like those are just something most people don't have. Know some people with the outdoor boilers. Saw one setup where an older couple were using an insta hot with their boiler. Do you think it is better to run the new system alone or tie it in with the existing one using the natural gas boiler as a backup. Like you have the propane setup.

 

[Fred61]

Just remember you can fit $38.00 worth of copper fittings in a sandwich bag.

 

[JohnDolz]

Just remember you can fit $38.00 worth of copper fittings in a sandwich bag.

Wouldn't know, seem to never buy less than $500 of copper.

 

[JohnDolz]

Take a look at the link below, it will give you 8 lifetimes worth of information. I would think whoever you buy the boiler from will have all the misc parts for their recommended setup. My approach was to attack this from the water storage perspective first. I considered the tanks and piping as infrastructure and the boiler as disposable (in the sense that a boiler can relatively easy (not cheaply) e swapped out. The thermal storage and piping should last forever. I got lucky and ended up with an Effecta, based on everything I have seen so far I could not ask for a boiler that does more.

I imagine that folks here will also be happy to talk to you once get get a little clearer vision of what you are looking to do and what $'s you are willing to put at this. Good luck and let me know if I can help.

http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/EERP/Renewables/Biomass/biomass-hydronics-training.pdf

 

[velvetfoot]

I have a sneaking suspicion that many of us boiler owners would be shocked to find out what it really cost.

 

[maple1]

Mine was $15k, Canadian, all in. That includes stupid necessaries like currency exchange & brokerage fees. And freight. And other items like electric boiler for backup heat, and new electric DHW heater. I did it all myself except for tank welding & wiring of electric boiler & water heater which together amounted to $500 or so. It's one of those things that when it's done, you say can't believe I did all that. Not that it's completely finished yet....

 

[JohnDolz]

Mine was $15k, Canadian, all in. That includes stupid necessaries like currency exchange & brokerage fees. And freight. And other items like electric boiler for backup heat, and new electric DHW heater. I did it all myself except for tank welding & wiring of electric boiler & water heater which together amounted to $500 or so. It's one of those things that when it's done, you say can't believe I did all that. Not that it's completely finished yet....

Just took a look at the Vedolux, nice machine - my Effecta comes from Sweden so very similar in many respects. Did you go with the shunt package? I would be curious to know how it works since it does not look like the boiler controls the shunt motor. I installed one this year and have been super impressed with how much more "mileage" I get out of my accumulator tank by leveraging the shunt and much lower flow temp.

 

[maple1]

No shunt.

 

[JohnDolz]

No shunt.

Made a world of difference for me.

 

[heavy hammer]

Thanks to all you guys especially you JohnDolz will look into these and if I have more questions I know where to go. Appreciate the help.

 

[jasonh]

What would a setup like this run ball park figure.

I've been asking the same questions as you for a little while now. From talking with different people who sell boilers, here's the prices I've found that have all the main key components needed:
Vedolux 55 with 1000 gallons of storage-11.5k (I would pick it up so no shipping)
Garn jr- 12k plus 500 for shipping
Switzer 1050- 10,900 (I would pick it up so no shipping)

Alot of good boilers and alot of options out there. It's all what you want to spend and how you want to do it.

I have NG as well and ya it sucks to still have to pay the meter fee but my dryer and cook stove is gas so that's a nice trade off. I think I'm leaning towards the switzer. I plan on heating my house and dhw with mine when it's finally set up.

Alot of good reading on this site and a lot of good people to answer your questions. Good luck.

 

[JohnDolz]

I've been asking the same questions as you for a little while now. From talking with different people who sell boilers, here's the prices I've found that have all the main key components needed:
Vedolux 55 with 1000 gallons of storage-11.5k (I would pick it up so no shipping)
Garn jr- 12k plus 500 for shipping
Switzer 1050- 10,900 (I would pick it up so no shipping)

Alot of good boilers and alot of options out there. It's all what you want to spend and how you want to do it.

I have NG as well and ya it sucks to still have to pay the meter fee but my dryer and cook stove is gas so that's a nice trade off. I think I'm leaning towards the switzer. I plan on heating my house and dhw with mine when it's finally set up.

Alot of good reading on this site and a lot of good people to answer your questions. Good luck.

I would agree, a lot of good equipment out there. I would look more ate what you want it to do vs. price (once you total everything the price difference in the boiler itself won't be such a big deal. I am now a big fan/believer of low temperature flow water so looking at a unit that has the ability to control multiple shunt/mixing valves would be a very important feature. That along with dampers controlled via a Lamda sensor to make it an effortless perfect fire. Good luck with the research and come to your own conclusions, there are plenty of opinions out there, not all are correct.

 

[jasonh]

I would agree, a lot of good equipment out there. I would look more ate what you want it to do vs. price (once you total everything the price difference in the boiler itself won't be such a big deal. I am now a big fan/believer of low temperature flow water so looking at a unit that has the ability to control multiple shunt/mixing valves would be a very important feature. That along with dampers controlled via a Lamda sensor to make it an effortless perfect fire. Good luck with the research and come to your own conclusions, there are plenty of opinions out there, not all are correct.

I agree john. The point to my post was looking at 3 different boilers; boiler with pressurized exterior storage, boiler with incorporated pressurized storage and a boiler with incorporated unpressurized storage all pretty close in price.

But your right. All types of scenarios to go with and different ways to make it work for your situation. Unfortunately for most people I don't think can afford a lamda, ie: Vedolux 450 comes to mind at 10k just for the boiler. But we are all different with different budgets. Luckily there is a lifetime of reading on this forum.