Looking for a "soft" radiant stove - PE Summit, Jotul F600, or ???

[BrowningBAR]

Well I think we're going to try the blower. Our dealer has graciously offered to swap for a Summit if we pay shipping, but I think if the T6 with a blower won't do it then neither will a Summit. The T6 was heating OK until this past weekend when we had a couple breezy days (30-40 mph). The wind coming through the windows was too much for the hot air off the T6, and we were having a hard time keeping it up to temp at 30F outside (15F with wind chill). Fixing the windows is not an option for about 2 yrs, so not much we can do about it as we need to be able to open them. The stove runs great, I can see the heat waves off the top and it'll hit 750 easy. Only other issue is it doesn't seem to hold a burn @650 very long (1 hr tops), but I think might be too little hardwood or too small of splits. I checked the door and tightened the latch as suggested since it almost failed the dollar bill test on the top latch side.

Based on consensus here, the blower seems to help immensely and we'll give it a try and see how much difference it makes. If it works as suggested, we should be OK and really enjoy the stove. If it's still not keeping up, we'll go from there...!

Ok, seriously, I asked if you had a blower on the stove nearly a month ago!

Additionally, there are many things that can be done to seal up the windows. I have old windows. They used to be awful. There is temporary caulking that can be used. Weather stripping for the top, bottom and joint areas. There is insulation tape that can seal gaps. As mentioned there is sealing plastic that can cover the entire window. It isn't that expensive. $100 will go a REALLY long way. Please, do yourself a favor and go to Ace, or Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase these items.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Give me a day with a caulking gun and some clear plastic and I bet I could affect a major change.

I can not agree more with that statement. The cost to properly tackle the project CLEARLY outweighs the additional amount of wood that is being burnt. I drastically improved 17 windows in my home for less than $200.

 

[moosetrek]

Well I think we're going to try the blower. Our dealer has graciously offered to swap for a Summit if we pay shipping, but I think if the T6 with a blower won't do it then neither will a Summit. The T6 was heating OK until this past weekend when we had a couple breezy days (30-40 mph). The wind coming through the windows was too much for the hot air off the T6, and we were having a hard time keeping it up to temp at 30F outside (15F with wind chill). Fixing the windows is not an option for about 2 yrs, so not much we can do about it as we need to be able to open them. The stove runs great, I can see the heat waves off the top and it'll hit 750 easy. Only other issue is it doesn't seem to hold a burn @650 very long (1 hr tops), but I think might be too little hardwood or too small of splits. I checked the door and tightened the latch as suggested since it almost failed the dollar bill test on the top latch side.

Based on consensus here, the blower seems to help immensely and we'll give it a try and see how much difference it makes. If it works as suggested, we should be OK and really enjoy the stove. If it's still not keeping up, we'll go from there...!

Ok, seriously, I asked if you had a blower on the stove nearly a month ago!

Additionally, there are many things that can be done to seal up the windows. I have old windows. They used to be awful. There is temporary caulking that can be used. Weather stripping for the top, bottom and joint areas. There is insulation tape that can seal gaps. As mentioned there is sealing plastic that can cover the entire window. It isn't that expensive. $100 will go a REALLY long way. Please, do yourself a favor and go to Ace, or Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase these items.

I know, we kept thinking about the blower but weren't sure we wanted to try it if we weren't sure about the stove. But since we're in it already, it's worth a shot. The windows are not something we can fix, they're double-hung wood double panes with a poor design along the slide rail - there's no way to seal them and still use the window. The PO tried it, and we're still scraping bits of caulk that wedge in to make a bigger gap. Sealing with plastic won't allow them to open (no option per DW) so we can seal about half. They really need to be replaced, no other reasonable solution, but it'll be a bit before all 10 of them are new even with the tax credit. THe POs were, um, an interesting lot (house was a previous rental and bank foreclosure... and none of them were master craftsmen by any stretch!) so we're still trying to work our back to a decent setup. We're bringing the exterior walls to R20, attic insulation, sealing gaps and and windows are next, but we might move this summer for work so I'm not investing a ton until we know if we'll need to find another home soon. If we're selling/renting this one its a different road than living here-

Summit, thanks for the info - small world! I lived in Gardiner until 2000... Appreciate the candid advice, and having gotten the offer from our dealer about the blower we don't have anything to lose by trying it. Should be installed by Fri and hopefully try it over the weekend. Any suggestions on the burn times? Only getting an hour or so before it drops significantly, and we're burning mostly birch, poplar, elm, some ash, and a little western red cedar and even less pine.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Well I think we're going to try the blower. Our dealer has graciously offered to swap for a Summit if we pay shipping, but I think if the T6 with a blower won't do it then neither will a Summit. The T6 was heating OK until this past weekend when we had a couple breezy days (30-40 mph). The wind coming through the windows was too much for the hot air off the T6, and we were having a hard time keeping it up to temp at 30F outside (15F with wind chill). Fixing the windows is not an option for about 2 yrs, so not much we can do about it as we need to be able to open them. The stove runs great, I can see the heat waves off the top and it'll hit 750 easy. Only other issue is it doesn't seem to hold a burn @650 very long (1 hr tops), but I think might be too little hardwood or too small of splits. I checked the door and tightened the latch as suggested since it almost failed the dollar bill test on the top latch side.

Based on consensus here, the blower seems to help immensely and we'll give it a try and see how much difference it makes. If it works as suggested, we should be OK and really enjoy the stove. If it's still not keeping up, we'll go from there...!

Ok, seriously, I asked if you had a blower on the stove nearly a month ago!

Additionally, there are many things that can be done to seal up the windows. I have old windows. They used to be awful. There is temporary caulking that can be used. Weather stripping for the top, bottom and joint areas. There is insulation tape that can seal gaps. As mentioned there is sealing plastic that can cover the entire window. It isn't that expensive. $100 will go a REALLY long way. Please, do yourself a favor and go to Ace, or Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase these items.

I know, we kept thinking about the blower but weren't sure we wanted to try it if we weren't sure about the stove. But since we're in it already, it's worth a shot. The windows are not something we can fix, they're double-hung wood double panes with a poor design along the slide rail - there's no way to seal them and still use the window. The PO tried it, and we're still scraping bits of caulk that wedge in to make a bigger gap. Sealing with plastic won't allow them to open (no option per DW) so we can seal about half. They really need to be replaced, no other reasonable solution, but it'll be a bit before all 10 of them are new even with the tax credit. THe POs were, um, an interesting lot (house was a previous rental and bank foreclosure... and none of them were master craftsmen by any stretch!) so we're still trying to work our back to a decent setup. We're bringing the exterior walls to R20, attic insulation, sealing gaps and and windows are next, but we might move this summer for work so I'm not investing a ton until we know if we'll need to find another home soon. If we're selling/renting this one its a different road than living here-

Summit, thanks for the info - small world! I lived in Gardiner until 2000... Appreciate the candid advice, and having gotten the offer from our dealer about the blower we don't have anything to lose by trying it. Should be installed by Fri and hopefully try it over the weekend. Any suggestions on the burn times? Only getting an hour or so before it drops significantly, and we're burning mostly birch, poplar, elm, some ash, and a little western red cedar and even less pine.

1) Why do you need to open the window in the middle of winter?

2) The plastic is easy to remove and doesn't render the window inoperable.

 

[begreen]

Amen, this is a mindset issue. Temporary winter storm windows, or heat shrink interior plastic windows are removed in spring. Caulking, around the window's perimeter trim finishes the job. No muck to remove in the spring.

 

[moosetrek]

"Winter" out here is not what I'm used to as a NE winter. Usually, temps are in the teens-20s @ night, 30s-40s daytime. We dont have the continuous winter of the northeast US, we get several periods of 50-60 degree days, it often will hit 70 in Jan, and then be -15 two days later. During the warm spells it's important to us to be able to open the windows and let some air in. There's also a lot less trees and more wind out here, generally from the NE (where the worst windows are in our kitchen). And my culinary skills often require an open window until the smoke alarm stops going off.

My understanding of the plastic is that it is heat-shrunk onto the windows, and I didn't see how they'd then be useable? I think we'll cover every other one, which should help some. I may be able to rig something like felt trim on a few more, but if I was to do it right I'd make storm windows; which be a big chunk toward a new one anyway. Overall, the house has come a long way in 1 yr, but part of the woodstove idea is to not kill us on propane so we can afford extra heat until we have the $, and time, to fix it up right. We're looking to overpower the heat loss through a big stove rather than making a propane furnace try to keep up, so we can spend the propane $ on the remodel as we can afford it. Time is also a big constraint, I travel a lot for work and I can't do things halfway, if I'm spending a half day it'll be to replace not seal it cause once I start I tend to take it all the way to the studs, "since I'm in here anyway". Then somehow there's a pile of plaster on the floor and hole for the window, and a less-than-ecstatic DW who wants her kitchen back sometime this season (never happened before, really...). The quick tips for sealing the windows are greatly welcome, and hopefully the blower will buy us some leeway until we can get to it. As BeGreen posted, the blower may not be perfect in every setting, out house is actually fairly open with the kitchen and the back porch being exceptions. Combined LR/DR, kitchen, and one BR all in about a square of 24X30 (720' sq). Therefore, I don't think the blower will make a significant change in circulation patterns, they're already good. What it might do is force hot air into the room at a higher rate and lower strata than natural convection, helping (as Summit suggested) keep the cold from infiltrating so much. Here's to experimentation!

 

[BrotherBart]

The 30 was a fine stove for ya. Unfortunately, like a lot of people here, you were sold on the idea that you have to burn the crap out of it to heat your house. Last weekend we were in the teens here and the folks sitting in the family room eight to ten feet from our 30 were commenting on how they thought it would be hotter being that close to the stove. Well yeah, if I thought you had to have blazing flames coming out of the burn tubes at the top and a full load to burn the sucker they would have been getting third degree burns.

I am starting to think of this phenomenon as hearth.com syndrome. Load it up, blast off and melt the house. These stoves really will burn clean with a nice fire just lazily burning along folks if you are burning dry wood.

 

[Todd]

BB, Isn't your stove surrounded on 3 sides by your masonry fireplace? That would really cut down on the radiant heat.

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

 

[moosetrek]

BB, Isn't your stove surrounded on 3 sides by your masonry fireplace? That would really cut down on the radiant heat.

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

I'm leaning toward that conclusion too- I know that you can always make an old house less drafty, but it's starting to seem like a "fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool" situation for some folks here...

I have a hypothesis though...

Given that BG and I both have older homes, but he's heating 2400 sq ft with a T6 easily, why then are we having trouble wtih one heating 900 sq ft? There are three differences that strike me (sq footage and insulation aside as those we've already identified as factors and can be adjusted for).
1) the wind: we have a lot more wind here (a lot of the state is Class IV-VI), which may emphasize any leaks in a home.
2) As Iceman identified, We also have a much lower humidity level; someone commented on the perception of warmth from more humid air, which is definitely a possible factor.
3) the desired temp (what is "warm")

Those two factors may play into #3; desired temp. Given the lower humidity, and possible increased infiltration into the house, our home is comfortable (shorts and t-shirt in most of the house) when it's around 80-85 in the stove room, and 75 in the rest of the house. I think there may be some sort of radiant/convection factor that comes into play, where a stove that converts the same energy from radiant to convective is more effective (or feels more effective) in higher humidity? I wonder if the less-dense air @5400 ft elevation would be a factor as well?

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome; veering off-topic from the T6 issue a little but maybe some fodder for experimentation-

 

[fredarm]

I have a hypothesis though...

Given that BG and I both have older homes, but he's heating 2400 sq ft with a T6 easily, why then are we having trouble wtih one heating 900 sq ft? There are three differences that strike me (sq footage and insulation aside as those we've already identified as factors and can be adjusted for).
1) the wind: we have a lot more wind here (a lot of the state is Class IV-VI), which may emphasize any leaks in a home.
2) As Iceman identified, We also have a much lower humidity level; someone commented on the perception of warmth from more humid air, which is definitely a possible factor.
3) the desired temp (what is "warm")

Those two factors may play into #3; desired temp. Given the lower humidity, and possible increased infiltration into the house, our home is comfortable (shorts and t-shirt in most of the house) when it's around 80-85 in the stove room, and 75 in the rest of the house. I think there may be some sort of radiant/convection factor that comes into play, where a stove that converts the same energy from radiant to convective is more effective (or feels more effective) in higher humidity? I wonder if the less-dense air @5400 ft elevation would be a factor as well?

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome; veering off-topic from the T6 issue a little but maybe some fodder for experimentation-

What about using a humidifier to increase the humidity level? I run a large Holmes console humidifier to keep the humidity in the house around 40%. It makes it feel warmer. Don't go over 50% though, that's when mold starts to grow.

 

[BrowningBAR]

BB, Isn't your stove surrounded on 3 sides by your masonry fireplace? That would really cut down on the radiant heat.

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

I'm leaning toward that conclusion too- I know that you can always make an old house less drafty, but it's starting to seem like a "fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool" situation for some folks here...

I have a hypothesis though...

Given that BG and I both have older homes, but he's heating 2400 sq ft with a T6 easily, why then are we having trouble wtih one heating 900 sq ft? There are three differences that strike me (sq footage and insulation aside as those we've already identified as factors and can be adjusted for).
1) the wind: we have a lot more wind here (a lot of the state is Class IV-VI), which may emphasize any leaks in a home.
2) As Iceman identified, We also have a much lower humidity level; someone commented on the perception of warmth from more humid air, which is definitely a possible factor.
3) the desired temp (what is "warm")

Those two factors may play into #3; desired temp. Given the lower humidity, and possible increased infiltration into the house, our home is comfortable (shorts and t-shirt in most of the house) when it's around 80-85 in the stove room, and 75 in the rest of the house. I think there may be some sort of radiant/convection factor that comes into play, where a stove that converts the same energy from radiant to convective is more effective (or feels more effective) in higher humidity? I wonder if the less-dense air @5400 ft elevation would be a factor as well?

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome; veering off-topic from the T6 issue a little but maybe some fodder for experimentation-

It is NONE of those three. You aren't heating effectively due to MASSIVE HEAT LOSS.

My house is a 2,200 sq ft stone farmhouse built in 1741 with crappy, single pane, really old windows and it seems I don't have as much heat loss as you do.

100% of your issue is heat loss.

 

[begreen]

To keep the record straight, our house comes right in at 2000 sq ft. During the December cold spell here it was dry for a couple weeks. Temps touched the high single digits at night. Interior humidity was in the low 20 percentile unless supplemented. And we had windy days, our house is exposed with nothing between it and the Canadian border, 100 miles to the north. The two main differences are that I aggressively have gone after leaks and we don't try (don't even want) to heat the house to 80. 72-74 in the living room is just fine.

 

[moosetrek]

BB, Isn't your stove surrounded on 3 sides by your masonry fireplace? That would really cut down on the radiant heat.

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

I'm leaning toward that conclusion too- I know that you can always make an old house less drafty, but it's starting to seem like a "fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool" situation for some folks here...

I have a hypothesis though...

Given that BG and I both have older homes, but he's heating 2400 sq ft with a T6 easily, why then are we having trouble wtih one heating 900 sq ft? There are three differences that strike me (sq footage and insulation aside as those we've already identified as factors and can be adjusted for).
1) the wind: we have a lot more wind here (a lot of the state is Class IV-VI), which may emphasize any leaks in a home.
2) As Iceman identified, We also have a much lower humidity level; someone commented on the perception of warmth from more humid air, which is definitely a possible factor.
3) the desired temp (what is "warm")

Those two factors may play into #3; desired temp. Given the lower humidity, and possible increased infiltration into the house, our home is comfortable (shorts and t-shirt in most of the house) when it's around 80-85 in the stove room, and 75 in the rest of the house. I think there may be some sort of radiant/convection factor that comes into play, where a stove that converts the same energy from radiant to convective is more effective (or feels more effective) in higher humidity? I wonder if the less-dense air @5400 ft elevation would be a factor as well?

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome; veering off-topic from the T6 issue a little but maybe some fodder for experimentation-

It is NONE of those three. You aren't heating effectively due to MASSIVE HEAT LOSS.

My house is a 2,200 sq ft stone farmhouse built in 1741 with crappy, single pane, really old windows and it seems I don't have as much heat loss as you do.

100% of your issue is heat loss.

It was just an idea - no need to shout- what I can't figure out is where the heat loss occurs then. We don't have enough surface area to have the same heat loss as your farm house - even with our windows open. Other than the window leaks, it's a reasonably OK house and probably much better than a 1741 stone farmhouse with single pane windows. There just is no place that much heat can leak out even if we tried. I'm not trying to disagree, but I expect it's more perception and expectation than actual heat loss.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

I'm leaning toward that conclusion too- I know that you can always make an old house less drafty, but it's starting to seem like a "fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool" situation for some folks here...

I have a hypothesis though...

1) the wind: we have a lot more wind here (a lot of the state is Class IV-VI), which may emphasize any leaks in a home.

3) the desired temp (what is "warm")

I think your hypothesis is spot on. The combination of those high winds and a colder climate make a huge difference, not to mention the desired temp. If I have highs above freezing and no wind, heating becomes pretty trivial relatively speaking. It was those highs in the teens and 30+ mile an hour winds for extended periods that led me to look for a better solution.

 

[BrowningBAR]

It was just an idea - no need to shout- what I can't figure out is where the heat loss occurs then. We don't have enough surface area to have the same heat loss as your farm house - even with our windows open. Other than the window leaks, it's a reasonably OK house and probably much better than a 1741 stone farmhouse with single pane windows. There just is no place that much heat can leak out even if we tried. I'm not trying to disagree, but I expect it's more perception and expectation than actual heat loss.

I wasn't yelling. Bolding and caps were for emphasis.

"The wind coming through the windows was too much for the hot air off the T6, and we were having a hard time keeping it up to temp at 30F outside (15F with wind chill)"
-If you can feel the wind blowing in that is a lot of heat loss. None of my really old, single pane windows have that problem (any more).

 

[moosetrek]

Thanks, I didn't mean to take it the wrong way - but yes we can feel the cold coming in through the windows. Some genious who should never have been given a hammer and nails put some huge, cheap double-hung wood windows into the north-facing wall of the kitchen. Smaller casements would be fine, as they seal much better and you can't usually see daylight through them. The other reason they leak is that the installer's version of a header was a single 2x4 for a 6' span, so the rough openings are no longer plumb and square. So while covering the big holes will help, I really just need to redo the wall and frame it right with a couple nice casements and insulation/caulk. I expect that will solve some of the issue, but has to be done all over the house, especially on the north side. Waiting on the magic blower... the heat's being made, just needs to be in the right place.

 

[BrotherBart]

BB, Isn't your stove surrounded on 3 sides by your masonry fireplace? That would really cut down on the radiant heat.

I just don't think convection stoves work very well in drafty homes in cold climates, better to have good radiant stove like a Blaze King Parlor or Classic where you would have more control over the output with the thermostat/cat option.

The whole front half of it is outside the fireplace on the hearth. Roughly the same amount of stove as if a 13-NC was on the hearth.

 

[summit]

Sorry Summit, didn't know you were the seller. For us, running the blower to our T6 doesn't make a dramatic difference. It could just be the layout of the place. With an open floorplan, at 40 degrees it does help bring up the whole house temperature quicker, just not hugely so. I tried it this weekend and found that it brought the house up 4 degrees in temp (66 to 70) in 30 minutes instead of what usually takes about an hour. But you could be right if circulation is what they need. It may work better on the Summit where the little side blocks direct the output more over the stovetop, but it doesn't increase the stove's btu output which is what is being lost. That is more heat to replace what is being blown right out of the house.

Give me a day with a caulking gun and some clear plastic and I bet I could affect a major change.

I wasn't selling anything... he called us up outta the blue from WY... we are in ME. He asked about whether he should switch stoves to a F600, and I told him to buy the blower 1st (retail @ 270) vs swapping out thousands of dollars worth of stoves (especially when the $ could be better served replacing some windows, or doing a little weather proofing). He told me straight up he was from way away, and wouldn't be buying anything from us, just needed some advice... Us Mainers are helpful like that

 

[begreen]

Sounds good, the help is sure appreciated. Thx.

 

[begreen]

Thanks, I didn't mean to take it the wrong way - but yes we can feel the cold coming in through the windows. Some genious who should never have been given a hammer and nails put some huge, cheap double-hung wood windows into the north-facing wall of the kitchen. Smaller casements would be fine, as they seal much better and you can't usually see daylight through them. The other reason they leak is that the installer's version of a header was a single 2x4 for a 6' span, so the rough openings are no longer plumb and square. So while covering the big holes will help, I really just need to redo the wall and frame it right with a couple nice casements and insulation/caulk. I expect that will solve some of the issue, but has to be done all over the house, especially on the north side. Waiting on the magic blower... the heat's being made, just needs to be in the right place.

Get some large window seal kits. We covered 2- 10' x 5' window assemblies this way. The whole shrink window gets taped to the perimeter trim and seals everything. Try to get the 3M tape and kit if possible. Their double-stick tape is quite good. Then go around the perimeter of the trim where it meets the wall with a bead of caulk. From that point forward, there will be no leakage from that window assembly.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WindowInsulatorKits/Products/

 

[polaris]

The 30 was a fine stove for ya. Unfortunately, like a lot of people here, you were sold on the idea that you have to burn the crap out of it to heat your house. Last weekend we were in the teens here and the folks sitting in the family room eight to ten feet from our 30 were commenting on how they thought it would be hotter being that close to the stove. Well yeah, if I thought you had to have blazing flames coming out of the burn tubes at the top and a full load to burn the sucker they would have been getting third degree burns.

I am starting to think of this phenomenon as hearth.com syndrome. Load it up, blast off and melt the house. These stoves really will burn clean with a nice fire just lazily burning along folks if you are burning dry wood.

Agreed. Folks burning at 110 percent sometimes seems like the norm. In my experience it really isn't necessary on any kind of continual basis unless your stove is undersized.
Joe

 

[moosetrek]

The 30 was a fine stove for ya. Unfortunately, like a lot of people here, you were sold on the idea that you have to burn the crap out of it to heat your house. Last weekend we were in the teens here and the folks sitting in the family room eight to ten feet from our 30 were commenting on how they thought it would be hotter being that close to the stove. Well yeah, if I thought you had to have blazing flames coming out of the burn tubes at the top and a full load to burn the sucker they would have been getting third degree burns.

I am starting to think of this phenomenon as hearth.com syndrome. Load it up, blast off and melt the house. These stoves really will burn clean with a nice fire just lazily burning along folks if you are burning dry wood.

Agreed. Folks burning at 110 percent sometimes seems like the norm. In my experience it really isn't necessary on any kind of continual basis unless your stove is undersized.
Joe

The 30 was a great stove, but the problem with it was long burn time (overnight) meant loading it up, our bedroom is 5' from the stove so for the first 2 hrs the room was about 125F. Then it simmered down and ran great for about 5-6 hrs and then dropped off again. If the BR was further away, we might have stuck with it and worked on a lower burn. I could have tried building a box hearth to cover 2/3 of it though - that's a neat idea; then use a fan to drive it out as convection but still have that beast lurking in the cave just in case it's needed Maybe a rail system for the box hearth, to bring it over the stove and back as needed?

 

[BrotherBart]

I give up. For the life of me I do not understand why people think they have to load these suckers to the gills to burn all night. Little secret. A half load leaves startup coals just like a full load. The difference is the heat output. Less wood, lower temps. More wood, higher temps. Try it folks, it works.

 

[begreen]

Aye. Tons of posts in multiple threads only to find out that the issue is a desire to have an 85 degree living room and a 100 degree bedroom in the middle of the wilderness, in the middle of winter in a house that might as well have the windows open. Seems to be a degree of folly here.

 

[Hogwildz]

Ya can lead a horse to water BB, you know the rest.
A Summit is going to cook ya out just like the 30.(if you continue to load it to the gills, rather than understand what BB is saying).
A Jotul 600, is going to perform similar to the T6.
Better to learn how, how much, and hard hard to burn, then to think a certain stove is going to fit the bill perfectly.
Chances are, any of these stoves will do the job, but it depends how you burn it.