Looking for longer burn time.

[nwmo_aggie]

Been doing a lot of reading here...looking for help. Live near Iowa/MO line, so get some winter, though doesn't seem to have started yet this year, eventually we'll be down to freezing for the winter.

House is about 1600 sq foot plus finished and insulated basement. House is pretty protected from wind. Stove sits in center of a large room in basement. There's a central air return vent right above stove and we run the fan to move air upstairs plus last spring put a fan in the stairwell. House seems to be well insulated and has good windows. The previous owners had installed a Drolet Adirondak and used it for a year or so. With a 1.8 cu ft fire box, it keeps up heating Ok, but requires a lot of tending, and we can't seem to get it to burn overnight.

Have access to lots of wood, right now have a mixture of really dry stuff including oak, hickory and hackberry that was stacked in a shed. Have also been cutting some dead and dry honey locust, but have some recently dead oak to work up and may go cut some walnut tops up from a place that was logged this fall , and have some ash and hackberry to cut to have something for next year to get started seasoning.

Have been looking at the Englander 30, Drolet HT2000, Drolet myriad, and this past week stopped into a place that was pushing Blaze King, both the Sirroco 20 or if I really wanted to upgrade, the princess pretty hard. I don't care to spend $2k+ if I can get along spending 1/2 that with acceptable results. Goal would be to get a stove that will burn 7-8 hours overnight, and be as simple to operate as possible. I understand the efficiency gains of the BK, but not really excited about the premium price it brings if I can upgrade to a 3.0cu ft firebox with the same results for 1/2 the price. My concern is that I'll never get the bigger stove to burn evenly...to get it to burn all night will have to cram it full, and at that point it won't shut down completely, so will bake us out and still be down to ashes before morning. Of the BK line, the 20 seems small and the Princess large, but that's what he had. I now see there's a Sirrocco 30 that might be a nice mid point if I can bring myself to spend that much.

Looking for input on what folks think about getting those stoves burn times.

Tks

 

[Sprinter]

Welcome to the forum.

A few questions and then a couple of comments.

Everybody has a different take on what burn time means, so is your goal to just have enough coals left over to start a new fire in the morning, or do you require a substantial heat output after 8 hours? And what do you need for daytime burn?

What is the total sf of the house including basement and main level? Normally, I'd say that 1.8 cf is small for what sounds like a pretty large space. You do say that while it's running, the output is adequate, but how hard are you running it to do it? How often do you have to reload and what air setting do you operate at?

Without knowing a little more, I will suggest that you may not need to go up to the 3 or 3.5 cf range to get what you need. My 2 cf Super 27. for example, can do 8 hours without even a full load. I've often had enough coals to start a fire after 10 or 11 hours although the stove temp has fallen off by then. That's a characteristic of non-cats. A cat will provide a more even heat over a period of time. Having said that, there are many advocates here of the "bigger is better" camp. You may be able to find a moderately sized load in a large stove that will give you enough burn time without putting out a wasteful amount of heat in the more mild parts of the season.

 

[Oregon aloha]

My fire box is not much larger then yours (2.1) and I have had a series of 8 hour burns without packing it tight. So if that is your am in this I would think something in a 2.0- 2.5 fire box will fill the bill. If you have the room, you could get a larger firebox that could be helpful on those colder days and just build smaller fires the rest of the time. You should still have a fire or at least coals by morning to start your new fire with either class of stove.
What is your total sq. footage? If under 2000 sq. ft. go with the 2.0-2.5 size stove. If over 2000 sq. ft. the 3.0 should work fine. There are other variables like thermal pain windows, how well insulated, draftiness, and floor plan. This is just a ruff estimate from what I have learned and experienced. Others I am sure will fill help fill in the gaps. More info. form you would help.

 

[Sully]

Load up 7 last night. Came down at 4 this morning and had coals. Fan still blowing warm air, until I opened door. Loaded up. Fan back on in 20 min. 9 hours is pretty good , alls I need

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Goal 1 would be still getting heat after 8 hours, at an absolute minimum, would like to have a good coal bed left. Our current stove is pretty much completely out by morning.

The house has a full basement, so 1600x2=3200 total sq ft, though I've seen some use 1.5 rather than 2 as a multiplier when heating a basement plus main level from the basement, so I'm figuring somewhere between 2400-3200.

Like i said, decent windows, not new ones, but wood dual pane windows plus storm windows. House is pretty tight. Previous owners were burning about have a woodshed full a winter through this Drolet...that's an area about 8'x12'x7' that they kept stacked full.

Normally don't have to run the little stove much over 1/2-2/3 open to heat well enough, just have to feed it often...like every 2 hours it needs a stick of wood to keep going. It's made to load e-w, so is tougher to get loaded up really well.

My fear with going to a 3 or more cf stove is that it won't shut down enough to hold us overnight...we will just get more heat, to roast us out, but still be burnt up in 3-4 hours

Another concern is I do have to change enough to make a difference...if I move up to a 2 cf...is that significant? I'm thinking no

 

[Rickb]

Princess or king..... Anything smaller then the princess and your not going to like it. The basement will suck up a lot of the heat your producing.

 

[Nocattom]

Hi nwmo, Check this video out. I know its cheesy but the info is great. http://www.woodheat.org/wood-heat-videos.html .
Efficient Wood Stove Operation

 

[Grisu]

Goal 1 would be still getting heat after 8 hours, at an absolute minimum, would like to have a good coal bed left. Our current stove is pretty much completely out by morning.

The house has a full basement, so 1600x2=3200 total sq ft, though I've seen some use 1.5 rather than 2 as a multiplier when heating a basement plus main level from the basement, so I'm figuring somewhere between 2400-3200.

Like i said, decent windows, not new ones, but wood dual pane windows plus storm windows. House is pretty tight. Previous owners were burning about have a woodshed full a winter through this Drolet...that's an area about 8'x12'x7' that they kept stacked full.

Normally don't have to run the little stove much over 1/2-2/3 open to heat well enough, just have to feed it often...like every 2 hours it needs a stick of wood to keep going. It's made to load e-w, so is tougher to get loaded up really well.

My fear with going to a 3 or more cf stove is that it won't shut down enough to hold us overnight...we will just get more heat, to roast us out, but still be burnt up in 3-4 hours

Another concern is I do have to change enough to make a difference...if I move up to a 2 cf...is that significant? I'm thinking no

Wow, you are going through more than 5 cords in that little Drolet; so no magic here, that is in line with the amount of wood needed to heat a house that size in your climate. Leaving the air open that much also suggests you are running that little stove really hard. I am amazed it did not break down so far. Other option is the wood is not properly seasoned; how long has it been split and stacked? What species do you have?

You would definitively profit from a larger stove. Sure, you will get somewhat more heat but they are designed to also give much longer burn times than a small stove like the Drolet. A stove with a 3 cu ft firebox will give you meaningful heat for about 8 hours and have enough coals for an easy reload for another 2 to 4 hours. If you want a more even heat output and even longer burn times (usually around 12 to 20 hours) look at catalytic stoves. The Blazeking Princess would be the proper size or the Woodstock Progress. If you want to save some bucks the Englander NC-30 is a very capable heater with many satisfied owners here. It will be a huge step up from the small Drolet you have. However, it has pretty extensive hearth and clearance requirements. Check those out before buying it. The Drolet Myriad you mentioned is certainly another option for a large stove for a reasonable price.

Once you know how to operate them I think you will easily figure out how to adjust the heat output to your needs. In the shoulder season you can always build smaller fires in the stove and let them go out. In the midst of winter you will be glad about that additional firepower a larger stove will give you.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Meaningful heat after 8 hours burning is a tall order. Sure, cats can go longer but at what heat output? Of the 3 type of stoves i use only the harman can do that.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

There's not much price difference between a Harmon and a BK is there? May be a tall order to get even heat I'm looking for w/o spending the big $$.

Wood is pretty dry, (is there a too dry?) most we've burnt last spring and so far this fall has been cut for a couple of years, but not prime species...there's some sycamore in there I've noticed, but also walnut, hackberry, a little oak, some hickory and some stuff I can't figure out. The people we bought the place from weren't too picky about what they cut/burnt...the wood shed also has alot of cedar, but I normally sort that to the side to burn either in my shed, or in an outside fire.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Either way Large Fireboxes go hand in hand with long burn times. THey also tend to be more costly than small stoves. I dont think a small, cheap, stove that also has a long burn time actually exists.Unless you get an old one. Closest i would think is the NC-30 for price vs burntime.

 

[Grisu]

There's not much price difference between a Harmon and a BK is there? May be a tall order to get even heat I'm looking for w/o spending the big $$.

I am not sure why you are so concerned about getting too much heat. You ran your little Drolet pretty hard and got max heat out from it. Just run a larger stove a little less hard and you will be fine. If hearth and clearance requirements are ok I would strongly recommend the NC30. It will make your life much easier and not cost an arm and leg.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Just don't want to end up with a stove that when filled for an overnight or long burn won't roast us out even when shut down. Discussion I had with some folks locally was that to be an EPA stove it had to burn hot enough to pass. That means you can't close it down completely, so I was concerned that 1) I'd be tied to not filling the stove full to utilize or 2) if full it would get pretty warm, and still burn all the wood I put in it in about the same amount of time as my current stove, still not gaining me anything. Even with our current stove we shut it down before bed, but still is burnt up by 2 or so at night (3-4hrs), so we are getting enough heat off of it at idle at night, just doesn't idle long enough. House is still warm enough but cools off after that.

I'm trying to ask if a bigger box will idle longer at a similar heat output as I have now, or same idle period, but more heat output. If answer is yes to the second, I won't have as big of gain by moving up as if I move up to a Bk or similar.

I've looked up the Englander manual...I'm sitting this onto concrete floor covered with tile. That covers the hearth, but the other clearances didn't look any out of line vs others, am I missing something? Or are some of these other stoves capable of sliding back closer? Looked like it needed 15" rear clearance....the only one I need to worry about as stove backs up to a flat wall, no corners near.

 

[Grisu]

To 2): I doubt you will save wood with a larger stove. Your heating load is 5 cords a winter which is determined by the size and insulation of your house and the difference between inside and outside temps. You may be able to shut down a larger stove more and avoid loosing so much hot air up the flue but I would not expect miracles. What a bigger stove will help you with is the time you spend tending it. You will reload a large stove, adjust the air for about 20 to 30 min. and then leave it alone for ~8 hours. During the first 6 hours you will get relatively constant heat output with the stove top between 500 to 700 F. After that it will probably start dropping but it will take time until this becomes noticeable in your home and then it is time for a reload. No need to throw on a split every 2 hours as you seem to do now.

To 1): A larger stove will provide more heat but the biggest difference will be the burn time or what you call "idle". You will get like 3 to 4 hours with your small stove and easily 8 or more with a larger one. You seem to run that little stove of yours pretty hard which suggests to me you would really benefit from a larger stove. If you don't want to go to a large stove: Englander will be coming out with a medium-sized stove probably in time for next winter. It has a 2.4 cu ft firebox; here is a picture: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...6-4-7-on-the-mall.112056/page-12#post-1577545 and some more info in the posts above and below. I assume the price will be close to a NC30.

 

[Nocattom]

Think of it like this. Put an ice cube in a cooler. Now put a block of ice in another cooler. Witch one will will cool better? The ice is the same temp.
The block of ice just has more mass.
Im not trying to be smart, sometimes it helps to think of things a little differently.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

IF your place is well insulated you probably need a cat stove. THey can be dialed down long and low. MY harman has a long burn time but even the minimum air setting will probably roast you out unless its in a very large room. My UNinsuated basement room 18x20 the stove is on stays between 85-95 even on the lowest air setting. Its OK for me as i dont spend much time in there. but the adjacent room is still 85.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

We'll see how things go. Menards knocked $150 off he Myriad, so I special ordered it last Friday night and actually picked it up last night. Hope to move it in while Tday help is in town his week.

Wondering if it would work to light a small fire in it sitting out in the driveway to burn the stink off rather than the first burn in the house? Anyone ever try that?

 

[Rickb]

We'll see how things go. Menards knocked $150 off he Myriad, so I special ordered it last Friday night and actually picked it up last night. Hope to move it in while Tday help is in town his week.

Wondering if it would work to light a small fire in it sitting out in the driveway to burn the stink off rather than the first burn in the house? Anyone ever try that?

Yup I did it. Got a cheap piece of 4' single wall and pre burned it. Helped a lot. Still got a little stink when I fired it up in the house but not nearly what it was like the first time in the driveway.

 

[Hardrockmaple]

I have the Myriad's twin, an Austral. I load up around 10 pm (not stuffed full) on a bed of coals, have it shut down in 1/2 hour. Go back down around 6 am to a huge bed of red hot coals.....repeat. These are serious heaters. Just beware, they require seriously dried wood, anything over 20% moisture content and my stove refuses to heat up.

 

[oldspark]

Just don't want to end up with a stove that when filled for an overnight or long burn won't roast us out even when shut down. Discussion I had with some folks locally was that to be an EPA stove it had to burn hot enough to pass

EPA stoves will run at a lower temp just fine, getting roasted out of a room has a lot to do with the house and air movement.