looking to get a boiler

[evamaxx]

hi everybody lots of good posts here ive looked around seems you get a lot for your money with the bio.mass from new horizon co any imputs good or bad from all you that have one working would be great. theres a sale on now the prices look good . the model 40 or 60 size im looking at .the house is aprox.3800 sf with mostly 2x6 con. the detached gar. is 1900 sf with 2x6 and insul. and drywall what anybody think? thanks mark i live in aa county md.

 

[Gasifier]

Hey Mark. Do you have a boiler heating the house already? Are you hoping to get it installed for heating for next year?

 

[evamaxx]

Hey Mark. Do you have a boiler heating the house already? Are you hoping to get it installed for heating for next year?

thanks for reeply i had a tarm it was 80 k and to small i think it leaked in 2006 mor 07 and i never replaced it now the house is oil fired baseboard and addition is oil hot air but i install ed baseboard everywere for the idea of using the tarm for whole house the tarm was 15 yrs old when instaled the garage is all hot water baseboard and 2 fan- coiled units also 900 gal ssts storage in basement hope this helps ihave another boiler a french chappee testing in garage but its a smoker it works

 

[Gasifier]

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. You have 900 gallons, tank(s) of thermal storage already in? Will you add another chimney for the wood boiler and keep oil boiler for back up?

 

[evamaxx]

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. You have 900 gallons, tank(s) of thermal storage already in? Will you add another chimney for the wood boiler and keep oil boiler for back up?

sorry the wood boiler is going in building next to garage oil boiler is in house ill tri ti send picts tomorrow ive read picts hard to post? ill try

 

[stee6043]

I've only heard positive things about the Biomass. Based on the size of your home and the fact that your Tarm was an 80K I would not recommend you go smaller than the 60K Biomass. A proper heat load calc, of course, would benefit you greatly before you invest in a new system.

 

[Tennman]

Yep, what Stee said. Our home is nearly 5,000 and we use a 60. When I did my research 4 years ago I decided the BioMass offered the best value for the money. The boiler has been great, but the installer/operator (me) had a lot to learn. We can help you avoid my BIG screw ups. If I was spending in this price range today I'd buy the same boiler. Make sure you read the underground and BioMass tuning stickies. Best wishes. I think basically all us BioMass users here are happy.

 

[Gasifier]

I see he said the garage is all hot water baseboard, two fan coiled units, and is 1900 sq. ft. Add the 1900 sq.ft. to the 3800 sq.ft. and you get 5700 sq. ft. Evamaxx, how warm do you plan to heat the garage? I certainly agree with a heat calculation to get a good estimate on demand. Doesn't take long to do one of those evamaxx. Let these guys know if you need help. Ask any question, good bunch of guys on here will help you through it. What are you going to use for fuel in the Biomass?

 

[mikefrommaine]

I've only heard positive things about the Biomass. Based on the size of your home and the fact that your Tarm was an 80K I would not recommend you go smaller than the 60K Biomass. A proper heat load calc, of course, would benefit you greatly before you invest in a new system.

I read it that the tarm was 80,000 btu. Not 80kw. If that is true the 60 kw (205,000 btu) biomass may be overkill for mary land.

I'm heating 3600 feet of living space plus the basement with the 60 biomass. Yesterday I got my storage online and was able to raise the house temp 5* while bringing storage from 53/50 top and bottom to 165/72 on one load. It was 25 and blizzard conditions outside. I'm still amazed at what these boilers can do.

 

[Gasifier]

I read it that the tarm was 80,000 btu. Not 80kw. If that is true the 60 kw (205,000 btu) biomass may be overkill for mary land.

I'm heating 3600 feet of living space plus the basement with the 60 biomass. Yesterday I got my storage online and was able to raise the house temp 5* while bringing storage from 53/50 top and bottom to 165/72 on one load. It was 25 and blizzard conditions outside. I'm still amazed at what these boilers can do.

Yup. I agree. My Wood Gun heats this big house of mine, about 4200 sq.ft., my garage to 45 or 50 at 900 sq.ft, and my domestic hot water. And it is only the E100. I think his tarm was not designed to heat all that space he is talking about. Looking at the Biomass manual it shows the 40 puts out 137,000BTU/hr and for heating 3500 sq.ft.

Disclaimer: New Horizon is not responsible for incorrect sizing of boiler.
BioMass Boiler Model
Btu Output
(per hour)

Heated Area
(square feet)

BM 25 - 85 K Btu - 1800

BM 40 - 137 K Btu - 3500

BM 60 - 205 K Btu - 6000

BM 80 - 275 K Btu - 8500

BM100 - 343 K Btu - 11000

Then there is this from Smokeless Heat.

There are two different models of the BioMass to accommodate different installations. The output of BioMass 40 ranges from 50K to 140K BTUs. The power output of BioMass 60 ranges from 60K to 215K BTUs. Fuel options are seasoned wood, corn cobs with kernals, 50% of coal, saw dust, wood chips (50%), or any kind of pellets.

? Is the ranges given here depending on fuel you are using? So the high end would be using cord wood? I am just curious about these things and want to know. Also want evamaxx to get the right size boiler. Not questioning anyone's experience or knowledge, that is for sure.

 

[huffdawg]

Overkill will work a lot better then underkill . Especially if you have lots of storage. If I had an Eko 60 instead of a 40 I'd only need to fire once a day instead of twice. That being said the 40 is still doing the job fine

 

[Gasifier]

How much are all you guys with Biomass, EKO heating. Maybe if you give the size boiler and sq.ft/domestic hot water you are heating it would be a good thing to look at. I know the heat calc is the best way to do it. I am just curious. How many sq.ft. are you heating huff?

 

[Tennman]

I cheated. I picked a boiler that was in the same class as the propane furnace that was doing the job. I assumed an 80% efficiency on the rated 215kW output for the underground flow requirements and heat exchanger. Doing the heat calcs is smart. It will probably confirm the 40 class is too small and the 80 is too big..... Leaving.... The 60.

Btw Mike, pretty gutsy making a big system mod adding storage in the middle of the heating season. I'll probably be PM'ing you picking your brain. I'm gonna wait until after the heating season. I'm chicken since all's well at the moment. You go 1000 gal?

 

[mikefrommaine]

Yup. I agree. My Wood Gun heats this big house of mine, about 4200 sq.ft., my garage to 45 or 50 at 900 sq.ft, and my domestic hot water. And it is only the E100. I think his tarm was not designed to heat all that space he is talking about. Looking at the Biomass manual it shows the 40 puts out 137,000BTU/hr and for heating 3500 sq.ft.

Disclaimer: New Horizon is not responsible for incorrect sizing of boiler.
BioMass Boiler Model
Btu Output
(per hour)

Heated Area
(square feet)

BM 25 - 85 K Btu - 1800

BM 40 - 137 K Btu - 3500

BM 60 - 205 K Btu - 6000

BM 80 - 275 K Btu - 8500

BM100 - 343 K Btu - 11000

Then there is this from Smokeless Heat.

There are two different models of the BioMass to accommodate different installations. The output of BioMass 40 ranges from 50K to 140K BTUs. The power output of BioMass 60 ranges from 60K to 215K BTUs. Fuel options are seasoned wood, corn cobs with kernals, 50% of coal, saw dust, wood chips (50%), or any kind of pellets.

? Is the ranges given here depending on fuel you are using? So the high end would be using cord wood? I am just curious about these things and want to know. Also want evamaxx to get the right size boiler. Not questioning anyone's experience or knowledge, that is for sure.

I think any square foot estimates such as those are not worth much. It all depends on the climate and a particular houses heat loss.
I went with the 60 even though a 40 would have been fine mainly so I could charge storage and heat the house at the same time. With the deeper firebox it means I can now load it up and let it burn baby burn without worrying if the house needs the heat or not.
I'm not sure what smokeless heat mean by the range of output? Maybe if you run it at a lower fan speed... Any biomass such as corn, pellets, wood etc. all have roughly the same btu's by weight.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I cheated. I picked a boiler that was in the same class as the propane furnace that was doing the job. I assumed an 80% efficiency on the rated 215kW output for the underground flow requirements and heat exchanger. Doing the heat calcs is smart. It will probably confirm the 40 class is too small and the 80 is too big..... Leaving.... The 60.

Btw Mike, pretty gutsy making a big system mod adding storage in the middle of the heating season. I'll probably be PM'ing you picking your brain. I'm gonna wait until after the heating season. I'm chicken since all's well at the moment. You go 1000 gal?

I wasnt planning to make the changes this late but I could never find the time. Had to let the house get cold a few mornings so the wife would see the wisdom of giving me the time to add storage.
I'll get pics soon and start a new thread.

 

[goosegunner]

Overkill will work a lot better then underkill . Especially if you have lots of storage. If I had an Eko 60 instead of a 40 I'd only need to fire once a day instead of twice. That being said the 40 is still doing the job fine

In all likelihood it would not change your fire situation. The 60 would charge the storage faster so you have less time when you are heating directly from the boiler. You would then have to run off storage for a longer time.

Now the Froling being capable of switching between two different out puts would be really nice. Big firebox set on the lower output and you run the thing for a longer time and slowly bring the storage up to temp.

gg

 

[Gasifier]

The Froliing is what? Three times the $ what the biomass is?

 

[goosegunner]

The Froliing is what? Three times the $ what the biomass is?

Less than 2X, last time I checked the were in the $10k range.

And about the same as a woodgun.

Not saying to get one. But they definitely have some nice features. Along with that, what makes me nervous about the high tech stuff is cost of control replacement.


gg

 

[mikefrommaine]

How does the froling switch between output modes. Does it just change its fan and air settings or is there more to it?

 

[stee6043]

How much are all you guys with Biomass, EKO heating. Maybe if you give the size boiler and sq.ft/domestic hot water you are heating it would be a good thing to look at. I know the heat calc is the best way to do it. I am just curious. How many sq.ft. are you heating huff?

I'm heating 3200 sq. ft with my EKO 40. As Huff stated above I half wish I had gone with a 60 to reduce my storage charge times. A 40 is plenty for my load but faster is always better, right?

 

[huffdawg]

I'm heating roughly 4800 sq ft. Also heat
40 gal. and a 50 gal. dhw. tanks. House and shop are insulated well.

 

[mikefrommaine]

The Froliing is what? Three times the $ what the biomass is?

When I priced boilers in 2009 the froling 40/50 was about ~11k
The current prices for a a biomass 40 is 4600 and 5600 for a biomass 60. I don't know what frolings are going for today.

 

[goosegunner]

I'm heating 3200 sq. ft with my EKO 40. As Huff stated above I half wish I had gone with a 60 to reduce my storage charge times. A 40 is plenty for my load but faster is always better, right?

I really do think if you could have a large firebox on a small output boiler it would be the best for sizing storage. My 200 will charge my tank 3-4 hours problem is I then have to run off storage for 20 hours. With my heat load I can do it some days, but with my forced air heat I like to have warmer water at the top of the tank instead of dropping down near the 140 degree level. Two small fires seem to help when the temps get cooler.

Now if I could run a boiler non stop 8-10 hours without reloading I could just use the storage for 14 hours. The trick would be sizing to take care of demand and have the excess slowly charge the tank.

My boiler is way oversized for my winter heat load, Not so much for my summer pool heating. This makes my situation different for having a higher output boiler.


gg

 

[mikefrommaine]

I really do think if you could have a large firebox on a small output boiler it would be the best for sizing storage. My 200 will charge my tank 3-4 hours problem is I then have to run off storage for 20 hours. With my heat load I can do it some days, but with my forced air heat I like to have warmer water at the top of the tank instead of dropping down near the 140 degree level. Two small fires seem to help when the temps get cooler.

Now if I could run a boiler non stop 8-10 hours without reloading I could just use the storage for 14 hours. The trick would be sizing to take care of demand and have the excess slowly charge the tank.

My boiler is way oversized for my winter heat load, Not so much for my summer pool heating. This makes my situation different for having a higher output boiler.


gg

Have you tried blocking off part of the nozzle with firebrick? And running with a slow fan speed? I'm not sure if your flue temps would drop too low though.

A good part of the reason I went with the 60 was the deeper firebox(30"). That way I can cut the wood to 25" and make good use of my 26" wood splitter

 

[evamaxx]

I see he said the garage is all hot water baseboard, two fan coiled units, and is 1900 sq. ft. Add the 1900 sq.ft. to the 3800 sq.ft. and you get 5700 sq. ft. Evamaxx, how warm do you plan to heat the garage? I certainly agree with a heat calculation to get a good estimate on demand. Doesn't take long to do one of those evamaxx. Let these guys know if you need help. Ask any question, good bunch of guys on here will help you through it. What are you going to use for fuel in the Biomass?