i bought and set up a new lopi endeavor and have been burning it since november. So far i have been less than impressed by its performace, which i find suprising because of all of the positive reviews on this site. Im trying to figure out if its me or the stove. I have about 5' of Dual wall smoke pipe and 20' of class A chimney in an enclosed insulated chase. No matter what i do or what temperatures i try to start throttling the air back it is difficult to acheive a good secondary combustion and maintain it. I have been buring white ash lately and thought maybe it was because the wood was too green so i went to the supermarket and bought some kiln dried wood just to see what it would do. It did perform somewhat better but still not as good as i had hoped. the main thing i have noticed is when the by pass is closed the flames still want to flicker seteadily toward the bypass plate the rear secondaries on the back wall of the fireplace will engage and a few of the ones on the rear secondary bar do as well but the front and middle ones can glow orange and still dont usually produce good secondary combustion this is happening now as i sit here with a 550 degree stovetop which is difficult to achieve without getting the flu gas up to about 800 degrees and then letting it drift down to around the 600 range. i have tried just about every combination of lowering the air at different temps possible so im just wondering is this me or the stove and why do the flames drift back with the bypass closed is there a gasket or something i may be missing i thought they (flames) would come up and over the bypass a little more easily. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips or things i should check for
Lopi Endeavor and secondary issues
- Thread starter p301
- Start date
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hickoryhoarder
Minister of Fire
I have a Lopi Freedom insert, 8 years old. On this particular Lopi, the instruction book is very important. It's necessary to do everything the manufacturer says to get a good burn, not get smoke in the room, etc. Most other stoves I've used are more intuitive, and I never had an instruction book before. If you're not following your instruction book to a T, there's a slight chance that's the issue.
Thanks i double checked and i think im doing everything right i just checked my ash and it had a mc of 26 not the best but i would think it should still burn better the kiln dried had an mc of 20. I feel like im constantly putting wood in this thing every 3 hours where are the btu's going? Up the flu? Boiling moisture off the wood? Do your flames drift toward thr bypass plate when its closed. Dont get me wrong i can get my temps up if i want to run my flu at 900 on the probe but getting the secondaries going and maintaining them is an issue at a normal flu temp
I was about to start something similar as my Buck Model 74ZC is having the same issues after installing it friday and getting it up and running. I thought I wasn't being aggressive enough with my wood burning so been trying a few things out. Looking at all the youtube videos of people showing secondaries lighting up, they have roaring fires in the box it mostly seems. I also have trouble getting to this state as I am in an enclosed prefab case with 26' of class A liner. Wood I know is good as it was dead standing oak and has been in my wood shed for 1.5-2 years.
When my secondaries do go, it's the back two tubes out of my 3 and it's as you described, a lazy flame in the box that wraps around the tubes and the openings a bit but nothing as impressive as others on youtube show. That's running the damper fully open for a while until there are roaring flames with a full load then drawing it back about half way. They will go for a bit but then die out and won't sustain.
I look forward to seeing more replies as I've read all the starter threads on here, the do's/don't thread, and spent an hour on youtube last night cruising videos about secondary combustion.
P301, are you loading your splits EW or NS? I am wondering if this makes a difference in any way at all.
When my secondaries do go, it's the back two tubes out of my 3 and it's as you described, a lazy flame in the box that wraps around the tubes and the openings a bit but nothing as impressive as others on youtube show. That's running the damper fully open for a while until there are roaring flames with a full load then drawing it back about half way. They will go for a bit but then die out and won't sustain.
I look forward to seeing more replies as I've read all the starter threads on here, the do's/don't thread, and spent an hour on youtube last night cruising videos about secondary combustion.
P301, are you loading your splits EW or NS? I am wondering if this makes a difference in any way at all.
N/S. im going to try a log cabin style in an hour or so to see if it lets the air through a little better. Give me the smoke dragon back! And everything else they "improved" over the last 30 years while your at it!
Without the secondaries is your stove still heating your house sufficiently? Mine currently is as it's keeping it at 73 with it being 30 or so outside here in NC so I'm on the border of wondering if I even bother with trying to ramp up further to get the secondaries going. I was trying E/W but currently have a big load of wood in the N/S configuration and trying that.
Currently with the N/S, I got it hot enough I guess to apparently get them going I think....? Currently some flames swirling lazily around the top of the stove between the tubes with the stove damper on low but no actual flames coming out of the tubes or anything that says there is ignition out the holes of the tubes.
iceman2424
Member
Sounds like you're doing everything mostly right.
I've seen the best results when I stuff the firebox, let the wood catch (10 minutes or so), then gradually reduce the air in increments until it's nearly closed, or fully closed. Have you tried fully closing the air?
Below is a video I took of my typical end result.
Its about 0 here now and house is 71 so it does heat just with alot more wood and alot more finickey than i thought and alot less secondary combustion. I just started my log cabin style fire and the outermost bottom split laid e/w seems to have stopped the primary air from pushing the whole fire back toward the damper forcing alot more heat to the front tubes i have secondary combustion but nothing like iceman!
blacktail
Minister of Fire
Thats why i bought the kiln dried and it did just about the same thing. I have tried every possible combination of things possible to keep the secondaries engaged
Iceman how hot is your stove and flu when its running like that? From a cold stove how hot does your stove and flu get and when do you start shutting it down?
redktmrider
Burning Hunk
Try some of the compressed saw dust logs sold at tractor supply or other farm stores. Some "kiln dried" wood is dried just long enough to kill the bugs and still may be quite wet. The saw dust logs are claimed to have a moisture content of 10%. Get a good coal bed then a throw a few on and see if you can get the secondaries to ignite.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
I know it helped me to learn from this forum that wood should be at about 70 degrees when checking a fresh split face for moisture. The procedure I see recommended is bringing some splits into the house for 24 hours or so to let them come to temperature, taking them outside and splitting and testing the moisture on that newly split room temperature face. I understand that testing cold wood, even if freshly split, will yield falsely low readings.
ill pick some sawdust logs up tomorrow. Always looking for a reason to stop at tsc anyway. What is a realistic mc i should shoot for with my wood. The pieces i tested were warm and split as i tested them they dont hiss or sizzle either. Ive had next years woot cut and stacked since summer. All the white ash for this year is covered and up off the dirt. I still dont understand even if the wood was wet why wouldnt the secondaries run and maintain themselves when they are glowing red. Like i said i can get them to go if the stove gets up to 650 but it takes getting the flue to near 1000 degrees to do it and that doesnt seem right. Begreen told me on another thread i believe that his stove can run 650 with like a 450 flu.
redktmrider
Burning Hunk
The only tube stove I have is an insert, so I have no idea what my flu temps are. The sawdust logs will at least let you know if your wood is the problem. I wonder if your bypass is not closing all the way or the gasket is damaged, I would inspect it when the stove is cold if you already haven't done that. You can probably see it by pulling the smoke pipe off the top of the stove. I just inspected the bypass on my blaze king using that method.
I had an Endeavor that I burned for 2 seasons. I never experienced secondaries like others with different stoves post videos of. Sure I could make great secondaries by slamming the air closed for a photo op or short video but those wouldn't long before the stove started burning dirty.
Look at the chimney, if it's clean you're getting secondary combustion. The stove doesn't need to look like the pits of hell to be working. It's been years since I burned the Endeavor but it liked to burn hot, I had trouble keeping it under 750*(one reason it's no longer on my hearth)
Load the stove, once it's burning close the bypass, once the stove top hits 300-400 cut the air till the flames get lazy, after the fire recovers repeat this another time or two until you have the air nearly closed. It should produce a stove top in the 600 range.
Look at the chimney, if it's clean you're getting secondary combustion. The stove doesn't need to look like the pits of hell to be working. It's been years since I burned the Endeavor but it liked to burn hot, I had trouble keeping it under 750*(one reason it's no longer on my hearth)
Load the stove, once it's burning close the bypass, once the stove top hits 300-400 cut the air till the flames get lazy, after the fire recovers repeat this another time or two until you have the air nearly closed. It should produce a stove top in the 600 range.
That video shows near empty stove pay no attention to it. How much wood do you see in the video? A chunk of wood tossed on a coal bed is a photo op, not practical for 24/7 heating.
Flames don't have to be shooting out of the tubes for the stove to be working. I used to get a lot of dancing/floating flames over wood, not always the blow torch look from the tubes.
If the upper bricks that make up the baffle are all in place, the chimney plume is clean and the stove is getting good temps just burn it. Once you have better wood and get to know how the stove works best in your environment things will improve.
Thanks for all the replies. I had been concerned about a gasket before and i reached up into the stove and didnt feel anything or even a recess where there should be one just a steel plate that slides over the baffle
hickoryhoarder
Minister of Fire
Other replies will be much more helpful than mine. I usually read the wood shed forum, and decided to try this one. Only answered because it was a Lopi question. My knowledge of stoves isn't very deep. Maybe the gasket will be the answer.
any ideas that people throw at me are helpful. Apparently my knowledge of stoves isnt very deep either. I'll try those blocks from tractor supply tonight and if that doesn't work i'll take the whole stove apart bricks secondaries everything and blow it all out and see if that makes a difference. I split a whole bunch of smaller pieces of ash yesterday about 24 MC ran the stove with the door open till the flu was about 500 degrees closed the door and bypass, and left the primary air wide open and watched the fire run through all my wood in about 45 min the house temp went up two degrees and the stove top never got over 450. Maybe the wood could have a little lower mc but i dont't think it should account for that kind of performance. That entire baffle and secondary tubes are getting awfully close to getting hacked out of there along with the jacketed side and getting plate steel welded back onto it
edyit
Minister of Fire
your mc is kinda high, you want to be under 20%, 15-18% is ideal. you're also running the stove "wrong" you can't run it like the old smoke dragon you're used to, it doesn't run that way. leave the door cracked like you did till the fire gets established then close it. do not leave the primary air wide open. this just send most of your heat up the flue. close the primary air control down in stages. go from full to 1/2 closed, give it a minute or two to adjust to the air change, then close it further to 1/4 open and let that adjust, then close it to what ever you have as your "cruise" setting, for some this is all the way for some it's barely cracked.
but honestly your wood is wet, it's going to be a royal PITA for you to burn wet wood. 24% doesn't sound like much but if you have a 4 pound piece of wood, 1 pound is water. that water needs to be boiled out of the wood. this is why you don't get secondaries. not because the epa stove is junk that needs to be cut up but because your wood is suboptimal. try getting some of the compressed wood blocks (wood only no wax binders) and mixing them in with your unseasoned wood. I know first hand how frustrating it is to try and use poorly seasoned wood, get the dry wood religion and all that frustration goes away.
Thanks edyit i have tried closing it in stages. I am assuming i should wait for the secondaries to get going in each stage though before i start closing?
I hear you about the MC and that is the only thing i can think of and maybe the kiln dried wood i got was sub-optimal at 20 mc but even the difference between 24% = 16 oz of water vs 18% = 11.5 oz of water is 4.5 oz. i guess maybe thats alot if you think about it in terms of dumping water on a fire. I'll get those blocks at TSC and see what happens. If they have a MC of around 10% how can i ever get my wood that dry. I think just the relative humidity in the air would keep it above that number. I have never checked the MC of the seasoned wood i burned before but what do you think a piece of say oak would be seasoned a year and a half and the top row covered?
I hear you about the MC and that is the only thing i can think of and maybe the kiln dried wood i got was sub-optimal at 20 mc but even the difference between 24% = 16 oz of water vs 18% = 11.5 oz of water is 4.5 oz. i guess maybe thats alot if you think about it in terms of dumping water on a fire. I'll get those blocks at TSC and see what happens. If they have a MC of around 10% how can i ever get my wood that dry. I think just the relative humidity in the air would keep it above that number. I have never checked the MC of the seasoned wood i burned before but what do you think a piece of say oak would be seasoned a year and a half and the top row covered?
Thanks for your two posts. At least for me that's what I'm going with. Light dancing flames over the wood and clean exhaust out of the top of the chimney. Seems I was just burning hot and shorter to try to get these tubes to put on a show when perhaps that isn't really needed.
Hope the OP is able to get his figured out.
Not the first time we've heard this and won't be the last.
Pretty typical when someone goes from a smoke dragon to an EPA stove. The bypass slide has no gasket, the plate is heavy enough to provide the needed seal to force the exhaust around the baffle.
the more open you stack the quicker and hotter you will get it going. when its cold i will put it in there lincoln log style and get a ton of secondarys(like the vids) but it also goes through wood. if you pack it tight it lasts alot longer but you dont get get as much heat, its spread out over time.
drying wood is better done in the wind. i had mine close to the shed covered as most do never really dries there though you have no air through it. i started stacking it in long piles out in the open, no buildings near it, probably drier in one year than the old way in two. i also keep it covered from sept to apr, during the summer i just leave it open, sides always open
drying wood is better done in the wind. i had mine close to the shed covered as most do never really dries there though you have no air through it. i started stacking it in long piles out in the open, no buildings near it, probably drier in one year than the old way in two. i also keep it covered from sept to apr, during the summer i just leave it open, sides always open
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