Lopi Freedom Bay- odd behavior

[Highbeam]

Hi folks, first question here.

I just moved into an old house with a masonry fireplace in the middle. The fireplace had been converted to a primary heater with an EPA non-cat Lopi Freedom Bay insert in the early 90s using a direct connect to the existing 8x8 clay chimney liner. The house is from the 60s but is insulated and is only about 1700 SF of ranch. No rain cap and reportedly annual chimney cleanings which involve sliding out the insert since the inside direct connect is such a lousy system.

The stove was used by the previous owner right up until I moved in. The plan is to have the sweep out very soon to inspect the stove, clean the chinmney, and slip in a SS liner. Then I can clean it out myself through the stove. Until he can come out I am burning the stove, my first EPA stove, and have a question.

I set a Rutland thermometer above the door as the manual states and have been watching my temps. Now I am worried a bit. The manual lists 800 degrees as overfire or when the stove glows red. The manual also is good about showing how to stoke and load the stove for overnight burns. I run the stove in the 400-500 range during the day with no problem and nearly nice clean emmisions and then before bed I stoke the firebox pretty full, get it going real well, and then damper down to almost closed. The fire looks to be ready for an all night burn with whips of flame licking off the front of the large fuel load and the burner tubes keeping the secondary flames flickering. Then I wake up a couple hours later and find that the stovetop is 725 degrees and the fire is rolling pretty well above the fuel load. I then shut the draft completely and the stove cools down over the next stressful hour or two. Only coals in the morning. The good news is that the overfire I had was easily controlled by shutting the draft, the room didn't heat up much though and the paint didn't burn. If I had shut the draft down to zero before going to bed I thought I would snuff the fire.

Should I be able to stuff a firebox full of firewood, get it going, and then completely close the damper for an extended burn? As it is, I am worried about overfiring unexpectedly. When I say "stuff it full" I really only mean 3 pieces of wood split to 6" plus the coals and ash from the days burn. There is still room to the secondary tubes and the 24" wide firebox leaves a few inches on each side of the 18" or so wood.

Thanks in advance.

 

[muzzy]

I have a Lopi Revere insert. I run mine at about 4-500 depending on my heating needs. For over night burns I pack the fire box as tight and as full as possiable. I then close door and heat to 500 or so then damp down. It burns all night and in the AM, I throw some splits in and let her get hot again. I notice with our stove that almost as soon as you damp down, the temp begins to drop slightly. It sounds as if you are getting some air in some how. Did you check your door gasket to make sure youre getting a nice tight seal? Maybe the door needs a washer taken out of handel to tighten it up? Just some thoughts...

 

[begreen]

Search on overfire and / or runaway. The behavior is pretty normal, newer stoves don't shut down 100%. But it would be a good idea to make sure all the gaskets are in good shape and sealing well. There was a post recently that had almost the same question but I can't find it right now. Here's a link of two to start:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4094/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3934/

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks guys I will read up on those searches. Do you folks with the non-cats completely close the draft control after stoking for the night? At this point I am afraid to pack the the box with much wood.

 

[JMF1]

I have the Avalon Olympic, pretty much the same stove as yours. When I shut the air down for the night I leave it maybe 1/4 or so open, maybe a little less. I've never had any problems, seems to work well. Remember that an 8 or 10 hr burn time advertised in reality is enough coals left in that time frame to get another fire going, not a burning, roaring fire after 8 hrs. Just my observations after a yr and a half of burning.

 

[begreen]

Hibeam, I would experiment with larger splits for the overnight burn. They outgas slower and tend to burn longer. With our stove, if I want a quicker hot fire, I use thinner splits, maybe 2-4" thick. For long burns, thicker splits of 6-9" seem to work very well, even for volatile woods like hemlock.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

most all (if not all) "non cats" cannot be closed completely off , they will still allow a small primary charge of air as well as the fixed "secondary" air into the firebox. depending on the pull of the flue a non cat can theoretically be closed down as far as the primary will go and still burn. if you have a really ripping draw, you may be able to shut it all the way down as far as it will go , or close to that far, and still have a productive fire. might take a little experimenting on your part to find the "sweet spot" with the draft controls where it matches your flues "horsepower" or pull.

 

[Highbeam]

I thought about it today and after the wife was able to hold 500 degrees all day without much effort I have resolved to be a wuss and lightly stoke the fire until the SS liner goes in. Any experimentation would be a waste of time since the liner should change the operation substantially. So tonight, 23 degrees outside, I will put 2 larger logs in, let them char, and slam the draft down before retiring for the night. In the morning, a new fire will likely need to be started unless I find myself awake late at night and throw a piece in.

I will gladly present the behavior of this stove with the new liner and hopefuly I find it much more predictable. I can easily prevent runaway in the meantime by being overly cautious.

Thanks for the input, I think I'll go enjoy my Pyramid snow cap in front of the cheery 55 degree Lopi.

 

[seaken]

Yes, you can shut your air damper control all the way to the lowest setting. But before you do that you need to get the fire properly established. A three inch bed of hot coals will allow a fully loaded firebox to go through the night at the lowest setting. Bear in mind that your wood must be properly seasoned. Too wet or too dry will give you different results. Also, don't be concerned about temporary bursts of higher temperature. If your air damper is properly set and the gsakets are properly sealed the stove will operate normally and you may see temps going over 700 for short lengths of time fairly early in the overnight cycle. It will stabalize and then the fuel will be used up over the 8 hours and you will be left with a good bed of red hot coals ready to do it again.

You will get used to it and with some trial and error you will become an expert on how to set your air control for your particular installation. You will benefit from the new liner. But I think your draft will be pretty much the same with a centrally located fireplace. Draft is optimum in that circumstance.

Good luck,
Sean

 

[gawebster]

Talked to our Dealer Services and they wanted to make you aware that the Rutland Thermoeters indicator of overfire is for chinmey pipe, not stove temperature. The thermoeter is designed to attach to the chimney pipe. It is ok to place it on the stove top, you just need not worry about the temperature warnings.

The Freedom Bay will burn at between 600 and 800 Degree F. These are normal operating temperatures. You can close off the air completly and still operate the stove. There will still be enough air entering the stove to keep it burning.

Gary

 

[Dunadan]

We have the Lopi Revere here. At night I stuff the firebox as full as I can get it. When I say stuff, I mean stuff. A few times I've had to really work to get that last piece in there, to the point I worry about the combustion tubes. To get a real tight fill, the key is picking the perfect pieces...kinda like a puzzle. I load my splits straight in, so it's easy to see where the holes are.

I've yet to shut the air down all the way. The first few times I tried that I got some pretty heavy build-up on window. Now I run with the air open about 1/2 to 3/4".

 

[Highbeam]

I've been shutting the draft to zero these last couple nights but not stuffing in a major load, like maybe 2 new ones atop a good bed of coals. I let it roar and then shut it down in two stages. The logs burn down to almost nothing but the window is super coated with the goo that won't come off with water and ash. It burns off with the first hot fire though.

I've been running it up into the 600s pretty regularly during the day now to get more comfortable with the high heat. It works well but takes a lot of wood to get it that hot. The stoves seems to have a sweet spot at about 500.

The chimney sweep guy comes out on Thursday to set me up with a liner, inspection, clean the old flue, and whatever else needs done. I hope it isn't too pricey, but it is a worthy investment.