Lopi Medium Flush Mount HYBRID-FYRE - need help and advice!

[Grizzly Gamon]

Hey all - I'll try to make this short and sweet. My wife and I are about to throw in the towel as our heads are spinning.

We have an existing old Preway fabricated fireplace that now has a gas log set. We have never used it and want to scrap it.

We initially had an installer come out to install a Harman P35i pellet insert but came to find out it wouldn't fit in the existing pre-fab setup we have. He then mentioned - "why wouldn't you just do a wood stove insert instead?" So now we have gone down that road and have landed on the Lopi Medium Flush NEXGEN-FYRE that is a few years old. It's new old stock at our local store and can be had at a decent discount. This unit would fit almost perfectly and the stock surround for them would be a nice fit as well.

My question is this - we are being told that they WILL NOT cut out the bottom of our prefab fireplace, meaning that the bottom louvers would stay intact and act as the 'floor'. I'm not crazy about the aesthetics of an insert just floating inside of the fireplace, hence why they suggested the flush mount since it wouldn't 'stick out' and look goofy. We were looking at the Lopi Answer but that would look very strange being hung in the air 5-6" and not resting on the hearth.

Does this all sound correct? We were going to tear everything out and have all the stone work redone with a free standing stove but that is just getting WAY out of budget. So now we are going backwards and looking at inserts again. This is making our head hurt with all the different options.

If you were in this scenario and trying to keep it simple stupid, safe, and on a somewhat budget.....what would you do?

Thanks and all input is appreciated.

 

[bholler]

Hey all - I'll try to make this short and sweet. My wife and I are about to throw in the towel as our heads are spinning.

We have an existing old Preway fabricated fireplace that now has a gas log set. We have never used it and want to scrap it.

We initially had an installer come out to install a Harman P35i pellet insert but came to find out it wouldn't fit in the existing pre-fab setup we have. He then mentioned - "why wouldn't you just do a wood stove insert instead?" So now we have gone down that road and have landed on the Lopi Medium Flush NEXGEN-FYRE that is a few years old. It's new old stock at our local store and can be had at a decent discount. This unit would fit almost perfectly and the stock surround for them would be a nice fit as well.

My question is this - we are being told that they WILL NOT cut out the bottom of our prefab fireplace, meaning that the bottom louvers would stay intact and act as the 'floor'. I'm not crazy about the aesthetics of an insert just floating inside of the fireplace, hence why they suggested the flush mount since it wouldn't 'stick out' and look goofy. We were looking at the Lopi Answer but that would look very strange being hung in the air 5-6" and not resting on the hearth.

Does this all sound correct? We were going to tear everything out and have all the stone work redone with a free standing stove but that is just getting WAY out of budget. So now we are going backwards and looking at inserts again. This is making our head hurt with all the different options.

If you were in this scenario and trying to keep it simple stupid, safe, and on a somewhat budget.....what would you do?

Thanks and all input is appreciated.

View attachment 316208 View attachment 316209 View attachment 316210

What model preway fireplace do you have?

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

What model preway fireplace do you have?

It's very hard to make out, but here is a picture.

 

[bholler]

It's very hard to make out, but here is a picture.

View attachment 316212

I ask mainly because very few prefab fireplaces allow any insert to be placed in them at all. And by the visible statement on that tag that only preway parts can be used with this fireplace I doubt yours does

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

I ask mainly because very few prefab fireplaces allow any insert to be placed in them at all. And by the visible statement on that tag that only preway parts can be used with this fireplace I doubt yours does

When I looked at the manual for the Lopi, it did mention it was suitable for Prewell units so I only have that to go off of. My installer also confirmed it would be okay, so I'm at the mercy of those who know more than I as this is not my expertise.

 

[bholler]

When I looked at the manual for the Lopi, it did mention it was suitable for Prewell units so I only have that to go off of. My installer also confirmed it would be okay, so I'm at the mercy of those who know more than I as this is not my expertise.

But lopi can't over ride the instructions of your ul listed fireplace. You need to find out what model you have and look up the manual. If the installer didn't do that they have absolutely no idea if this is allowed by code or not. Don't forget if it isn't allowed they loose a stove sale so they aren't exactly objective.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

But lopi can't over ride the instructions of your ul listed fireplace. You need to find out what model you have and look up the manual. If the installer didn't do that they have absolutely no idea if this is allowed by code or not. Don't forget if it isn't allowed they loose a stove sale so they aren't exactly objective.

It's a BI42 from what I can see..I found a manual online for this model. Not sure what Type-C means though...venting class? Either way, literature is out there but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Anyone else? Thanks

 

[webby3650]

You won’t get any traction here with your question. Everyone is too afraid of being attacked when they say it should be fine. How in the hell would Preway have approved a Lopi hybrid to be installed? Why would they, even if it wasn’t 35 years ago.? There’s no money in it for them, they wouldn’t test it for that reason. Lopi spent the money though…
Now I’ll wait for the barrage of people saying it’s unethical, illegal , federal crime etc… truth is its done routinely all over the country. Just thought I’d reach out since no one else would chime in.

 

[begreen]

FWIW Lopi appears to have tested with a Preway.

•  Must be manufactured by one of the following manufacturers:
  • Marco • Majestic • Heatilator • Preway • Tempco • Superior • Heat N Glo • Lennox • Martin • Monesson

 

[webby3650]

FWIW Lopi appears to have tested with a Preway.

•  Must be manufactured by one of the following manufacturers:
  • Marco • Majestic • Heatilator • Preway • Tempco • Superior • Heat N Glo • Lennox • Martin • Monesson

The fireplace manufacturer will rarely test with an insert. Like I’ve said many times. Why would they, it is of no advantage to them to spend the money. They aren’t going to do it, period. The insert manufacturer has and will spend the money though. I’m not a big fan of it, but you’ve got to play the cards your dealt sometimes. Home owners can’t afford to tear the entire system out and start over most of the time.

 

[bholler]

Oh I am not against doing it per say. But it clearly carries allot of liability with it. And feel the need to warn people of that. In this case it doesn't specifically say no inserts so there could be an argument that it's ok. I won't do the install bit if an insured pro will the homeowner is pretty well covered

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Thanks for chiming in guys.

That's where a lot of the grey area lies, in the installation of whether it's 'correct' or not.

We were also told (and I even called Lopi direct!) that Lopi has tested specifically with the prefab manufacturers listed in their installation manual for safe installation. They wouldn't put that in there for no reason.

And to webby3650's comments - I agree 100%. Why would Preway go through testing of an insert? There is nothing in it for them to do so - and to mention.....this prefab fireplace is easily 35 years old, when inserts weren't popular?

I am typically a 'do it once, do it right' type of person. But, to rip out the fireplace and redo the stonework etc....it's just simply not in the budget. We are in one of those situations where a flush mount insert could be the ticket to provide some supplemental heat, and look good doing so.

We are weighing the options as we speak. I think aesthetics is where we are getting hung up. A Lopi Answer would simply look ridiculous being suspended in the air about 5-6" where the louvered bottom of the fireplace is....it wouldn't sit on the hearth like you see in most applications.

That's where the flush mount seems to be the happy medium. It won't 'stick out' as far and it would/should look like it's meant to be there. At least that is what I envision it looking like.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for chiming in guys.

That's where a lot of the grey area lies, in the installation of whether it's 'correct' or not.

We were also told (and I even called Lopi direct!) that Lopi has tested specifically with the prefab manufacturers listed in their installation manual for safe installation. They wouldn't put that in there for no reason.

And to webby3650's comments - I agree 100%. Why would Preway go through testing of an insert? There is nothing in it for them to do so - and to mention.....this prefab fireplace is easily 35 years old, when inserts weren't popular?

I am typically a 'do it once, do it right' type of person. But, to rip out the fireplace and redo the stonework etc....it's just simply not in the budget. We are in one of those situations where a flush mount insert could be the ticket to provide some supplemental heat, and look good doing so.

We are weighing the options as we speak. I think aesthetics is where we are getting hung up. A Lopi Answer would simply look ridiculous being suspended in the air about 5-6" where the louvered bottom of the fireplace is....it wouldn't sit on the hearth like you see in most applications.

That's where the flush mount seems to be the happy medium. It won't 'stick out' as far and it would/should look like it's meant to be there. At least that is what I envision it looking like.

Testing in a preway fireplace is fine. But which one? Did they test in every preway ever made? What standard did they test to? There currently is no testing standard for this type of install. (Supposedly there is one coming) there are just way to many un answered safety questions for me to ever feel comfortable doing or recommending an install like this without both manufacturers agreeing it's ok.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Testing in a preway fireplace is fine. But which one? Did they test in every preway ever made? What standard did they test to? There currently is no testing standard for this type of install. (Supposedly there is one coming) there are just way to many un answered safety questions for me to ever feel comfortable doing or recommending an install like this without both manufacturers agreeing it's ok.

That I cannot comfortably answer, as I am not the expert nor manufacturer.

As a homeowner looking to install this stove - all I can go by is what Lopi states in their manual as being an approved application. And from everything I've read, spoken to Lopi direct, spoken to my installer and dealer.......we are ok?

 

[webby3650]

With these fireplaces you need to make sure it not only fits, but that you will be able to get liner hooked up. Typically you have to offset with elbows, and the flu collar is too close to top of the fireplace to make it happen. I think these old ones had a bit of a smoke dome above the opening though.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

With these fireplaces you need to make sure it not only fits, but that you will be able to get liner hooked up. Typically you have to offset with elbows, and the flu collar is too close to top of the fireplace to make it happen. I think these old ones had a bit of a smoke dome above the opening though.

You are correct! We actually had the installer out here when he was going to put in the pellet stove we had initially purchased (that didn't fit). That's when he mentioned using a wood stove insert instead since the flue collar lined up much better than what the Harman P35i did.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Any other input from the experts on here? Especially those who have moved forward with an insert like in my scenario...

 

[begreen]

Ultimately, it's a liability question. Is the installer a well-established shop that can be expected to be around for the next decade? Are they certified and bonded? Have you asked your insurance company what they require of the installation? If they approve, with conditions, then it would be good to get this in writing if possible.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Ultimately, it's a liability question. Is the installer a well-established shop that can be expected to be around for the next decade? Are they certified and bonded? Have you asked your insurance company what they require of the installation? If they approve, with conditions, then it would be good to get this in writing if possible.

Going to call my agent now and see what they say.

I have never in my life dealt with something that has so much of a 'grey' area....ever.

As a homeowner all I can go off of is the manufacturer of the stove indicating it's OK for installation of my application. And if my installer is also recommending it, what is the huge hang up here? This is beyond ridiculous.

From weeks/months of reading on here and other groups, I've come to the conclusion that you either have to be building a new house to approve of a 'proper' installation...........or, you have to completely tear out your existing chimney and redo the whole thing.

That just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

Called and spoke to my insurance agent.

For anyone looking into this, in my situation. You really do not have to worry from what I can tell.

They said as long as the installer has general liability, the manual states the manufactured fireplace is an acceptable brand for use.....there are no issues. For what it's worth.

 

[begreen]

The agent has voiced an opinion, which should be in writing. In the case of a fire however it will be the claims adjuster that makes the determination, not the agent. If this is a concern, get the approval from the underwriter in writing in advance of accepting the policy.

 

[Grizzly Gamon]

The agent has voiced an opinion, which should be in writing. In the case of a fire however it will be the claims adjuster that makes the determination, not the agent. If this is a concern, get the approval from the underwriter in writing in advance of accepting the policy.

I did. I don't know how much further clarification I need to get in order to move forward with the installation. I'm covered on my end as far as I can tell.

Why is everyone so apprehensive over this? Lopi says it's ok, installer says it's ok, local distributor says it's ok, insurance agent says it's ok.........what am I missing here?


"Thank you for calling in today to discuss the potential change from Gas to Wood fireplace.

As mentioned, you are on the right path moving forward, yes check permitting and licensing and make sure whoever is doing the install has General Liability.

In research and review I see no major issues with Travelers, they do show a small increase in premium for the wood fireplace of aprx. $50/year. Also Travelers may have you review and sign a form for our files once the fireplace is installed.

Let me know if you have any follow-up questions?

Thank you again for your continued trust in our service, enjoy the weekend!

Best regards,"

 

[bholler]

I did. I don't know how much further clarification I need to get in order to move forward with the installation. I'm covered on my end as far as I can tell.

Why is everyone so apprehensive over this? Lopi says it's ok, installer says it's ok, local distributor says it's ok, insurance agent says it's ok.........what am I missing here?


"Thank you for calling in today to discuss the potential change from Gas to Wood fireplace.

As mentioned, you are on the right path moving forward, yes check permitting and licensing and make sure whoever is doing the install has General Liability.

In research and review I see no major issues with Travelers, they do show a small increase in premium for the wood fireplace of aprx. $50/year. Also Travelers may have you review and sign a form for our files once the fireplace is installed.

Let me know if you have any follow-up questions?

Thank you again for your continued trust in our service, enjoy the weekend!

Best regards,"

The problem will arise if that installer goes out of business. Because the code clearly says you need to follow instructions for all ul listed products. The fireplace says you can only use accessories approved and listed in the manual. A fireplace insert is not. As long as your contractors insurance is there to cover you it's all good. But that message from your insurance company doesn't address the conflict in the instructions at all. But I can absolutely guarantee that either the adjuster or the professional they call in will notice it.

Every professional organization in.our trade is very clear on this issue. You can't ignore one set of instructions just because you want to.

If you want to take the risk and your installer is willing to do it that's your decision we are simply trying to provide you with the most complete information possible. Has your installer even pulled the chase cover and inspected for proper clearances there to make sure your fireplace is actually code compliant?

 

[EbS-P]

I’ve been following along. I don’t think a wood burning insert in that unit is the best decision.

How would you and @bholler feel about a free standing hearth installed pellet stove that’s rear vented into pellet vent. New doors could be make or current one retrofitted. My parents have a hearth mounted Castile (albeit a full masonry fireplace. It looks good and functions well. Ember protection my need to be added to the floor as the Castile needs 6” from front of door.

It’s venting free standing appliance through the fireplace. It’s probably still a gray area but I think it’s a better/safer solution.