Lopi vs VC

[bfg112]

Hello all, new member here. I've looked around the forum a bit but can't find the specific comparisons I'm looking for. I stopped at my local shop as well; unfortunately, the salesperson that spoke with me wasn't as technically knowledgeable as I had hoped. So, here's what I'm looking for. I have a 28'x40' two-story colonial home with currently unfinished basement (future plans include finishing ~3/4 of the basement). The home was new construction in 2017 and I had a 6" triple wall duravent chimney installed and stubbed through the basement wall during construction. Total system height from basement floor to chimney cap is around 36'. I'm now ready to install the wood stove.

My goal is to not only heat the basement, but also supplement the heat for the entire home by circulating air using the HVAC air handler. I'm going with cat stoves because I plan to get the stove hot then shut down to low/slow burns. I've narrowed my search to the following four stoves:
1. Lopi Cape Cod
2. Lopi Rockport
3. Vermont Castings Defiant
4. Vermont Castings Encore

I'm drawn to the Lopi stoves because the secondary is visible and there's fewer moving parts. I like the top load feature and swing-out ash pan on the VC. I was almost decided on the Cape Cod until seeing the price compared to the other 3 stoves mentioned.

I'll start with these basic questions and go from there: Is the Rockport or Encore large enough for what I want to do? What are the pors and cons of VC vs Lopi?

 

[Diabel]

Welcome to the forum.

I have no experience with Lopi stoves, and my comments/questions will be more of general nature.

1. What is you firewood supply situation?
2. HRV will not circulate the warmer air from the basement.
3. Your unfinished basement walls will suckup (possibly) 50% of the heat your stove will generate.
4. 36’ of chimney is a lot, might need to install a pipe damper.
5. I have both top loader and front loader and to be honest i now prefer the front loader for loading wood.

I have some experience with VC encore. It will work great in a perfect setup. On a 36’ pipe without a damper, both encore and defiant will want to run hot into the overfire zone. VC stove can be very easily overfired if you are not paying attention. There are many moving parts in these units and are very very expensive. If i was in a market for a stove today VC would not be on my shopping list. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[ABMax24]

Ensure you read the manuals of the stove you intend to buy, a call to tech support is probably also worth it. The Lopi models are rated for a max of 33' of chimney, you will be on the limit of that with your setup.

Personally I'd be searching for the stove that handles strong draft the best, overfire is a very real possibility on your setup, as Diabel has said a flue damper may be required.

 

[bholler]

Or even 2 flue dampers

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Your basically asking the stove to heat alot of area.. the basement.. first floor.. second floor.. your going to need a big stove. the Rockport and the encore are probably to small. The HVAC system will not Circulate the hot air around the house especially from the basement. Your going to need a different idea to move heat. The best Idea my be putting the stove on the first floor. Using a space heater when the basement is finished. Theres a real possibly of the stove not running correctly. Sometimes basement installs have problems with negative pressure.

 

[bfg112]

1. What is you firewood supply situation?

Nothing but Pennsylvania hardwoods. Mostly cherry, some beech. Predominantly sourced from my and neighboring properties.

2. HRV will not circulate the warmer air from the basement.

Can you explain a little here? If there's a return in the basement I don't follow why it wouldn't circulate warm air.

3. Your unfinished basement walls will suckup (possibly) 50% of the heat your stove will generate.

Understood, and expected.

4. 36’ of chimney is a lot, might need to install a pipe damper.

Agreed. I'm aware the Lopi advertised max is 33'. I haven't pulled an actual measurement of the system yet, but plan to. My estimate was based off of construction drawings for the home where there's not a dimension given to the chimney cap.

5. I have both top loader and front loader and to be honest i now prefer the front loader for loading wood.

I've read both opinions. I could see where that would be a novelty that isn't really all that useful.

I have some experience with VC encore. It will work great in a perfect setup. On a 36’ pipe without a damper, both encore and defiant will want to run hot into the overfire zone. VC stove can be very easily overfired if you are not paying attention. There are many moving parts in these units and are very very expensive. If i was in a market for a stove today VC would not be on my shopping list. Hope this helps a bit.

It does help, and thank you for the reply.

 

[bfg112]

Your basically asking the stove to heat alot of area.. the basement.. first floor.. second floor.. your going to need a big stove. the Rockport and the encore are probably to small. The HVAC system will not Circulate the hot air around the house especially from the basement. Your going to need a different idea to move heat. The best Idea my be putting the stove on the first floor. Using a space heater when the basement is finished. Theres a real possibly of the stove not running correctly. Sometimes basement installs have problems with negative pressure.

There's already an open fireplace on the first floor, more for aesthetics than function. The fireplace is in the living room, the HVAC thermostat is in the dining room. In the winter we keep the heat set at 66-68, the fireplace will make the thermostat read 71-72; so the heat doesn't kick on and the upstairs stays cool (I prefer the bedrooms to stay cool for sleeping).

Can you explain a little (or point me to an existing thread) why the HVAC won't circulate the warm air from the basement to the rest of the house? My thought was to cut in a return in the ceiling of the basement. Thanks.

 

[Diabel]

@bfg112
You came here for input at the right time, i believe.
The wood you mentioned needs to be cut/split/stacked, raised off the ground and top covered for at least two (better yet) three years in order to burn well.
HRV, i have one and believe you me, it will not work. Simple physics, you will loose all the worn air somewhere in between the floor cavities. This topic has been beaten to death here. Just search moving warm air with your furnace fan, hrv works the same way.

 

[bfg112]

Diabel
I'm familiar with seasoning firewood. I've had open fireplaces most of my life. This will be my first stove that I'm actually trying to legitimately heart with though. I'll do the search you suggest. For my education, what's HRV stand for?

 

[bholler]

Diabel
I'm familiar with seasoning firewood. I've had open fireplaces most of my life. This will be my first stove that I'm actually trying to legitimately heart with though. I'll do the search you suggest. For my education, what's HRV stand for?

Heat recovery ventilation.

Seasoning for an open fireplace is very different than seasoning for an epa woodstove. Wood at 30% will work in a fireplace but you need to be below 20 for a modern stove.

And softwoods are perfectly fine as well. They also dry fast

 

[kennyp2339]

Just a little FYI, but when trying to use the current HVAC to circulate warm air, unless the air is 150 + deg f all you will be doing is making the house feel chilly with luke warm air coming out of the registers.
I have a "raised ranch" approx 1500 sqft (includes the basement portion) and sometimes its challenging to heat from the basement when temps get below 15deg f.
Best bet is to re-analyze what the actual goal is, nothing wrong with making the basement warm, but truthfully if the main living space is upstairs on the ground level floor then you may want to peruse install an additional class a chimney for a separate stove on that floor, or convert your existing fireplace )assuming its a zero clearance, to a epa zero clearance or gut the thing and install a free stander there.
As far as draft from the basement, 35ft of chimney, you'll be running high and more then likely need to install one or two pipe dampers to slow things down.

 

[bfg112]

I'm confident I can deal with the potential chimney height issue with damper(s) as necessary. I guess at this point the question becomes, If it will be prohibitively difficult to move heat throughout the house and I'm only heating the basement, do I go with a larger or smaller stove to heat the basement considering it will be finished in the future? The finished basement will be around 1000 sqft with one bedroom, one bathroom and the rest an open concept game room and small kitchen. Foundation walls are 9' and I plan to install a drop ceiling between 7'6" - 8'.

 

[john26]

If you want to heat the whole house you might look into a PSG mini caddy furnace or a Drolet wood furnace both have glass doors on them use 6" pip they would definitely distribute heat better.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

There's already an open fireplace on the first floor, more for aesthetics than function. The fireplace is in the living room, the HVAC thermostat is in the dining room. In the winter we keep the heat set at 66-68, the fireplace will make the thermostat read 71-72; so the heat doesn't kick on and the upstairs stays cool (I prefer the bedrooms to stay cool for sleeping).

Can you explain a little (or point me to an existing thread) why the HVAC won't circulate the warm air from the basement to the rest of the house? My thought was to cut in a return in the ceiling of the basement. Thanks.

@kennyp2339 explains it pretty well. the heat in the room that your drawing off of will not be warm enough the air temp at the Ceiling will be somewhere in the nineties thats not warm enough to travel through the air return, the air handler then the duct work. Your house will fell cold. The way I got around it is when I redid my home was to put in a 14in duct booster fan in the attic. I draw the warm air from the ceiling in the stove room and pump the warm air into the farthest rooms.. which are the kids 2 bedrooms and my master bath. I only need to do this when its cold out. like single digits and low teens. my house is completely open floor plan so the heat moves readily..

I'm drawing the air very close to the stove so the air is warm. I put an air probe in the vent in my bathroom that air coming out wad in the mid 80s so running it for a couple hours when its in the teens out gets my bathroom in the low 70s if I want.

 

[begreen]

I'm drawing the air very close to the stove so the air is warm. I put an air probe in the vent in my bathroom that air coming out wad in the mid 80s so running it for a couple hours when its in the teens out gets my bathroom in the low 70s if I want.

The intake needs to be at least 10 ft away from the stove per mechanical code. If you can reverse the fan that would solve the problem and you may find the heating more even by pulling the cooler air and blowing it into the warm stove room.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

The intake needs to be at least 10 ft away from the stove per mechanical code. If you can reverse the fan that would solve the problem and you may find the heating more even by pulling the cooler air and blowing it into the warm stove room.

I rarely use this system. Maybe 12 times a year. Last year I may have used it 3 times as it was not that cold. My bathroom is far away from the stove so it can be 60 in there.. which is a little cool when showering . so going from 60 to 72 in a couple hours time is pretty good. I dont see an issue with heating the farthest rooms at all.. I dont need to run this for more than a few hours.

 

[BrianVA]

There's already an open fireplace on the first floor, more for aesthetics than function. The fireplace is in the living room,

What about the possibility of putting an insert in that fireplace?

 

[bfg112]

What about the possibility of putting an insert in that fireplace?

That would absolutely be a better heater, just not what I want there. Form over function.