Masonry heater sighting

[EatenByLimestone]

I finally saw one! We did a bat exclusion on an older home and it was sitting right in the middle of their living room. It's the only house I've seen that consistently had their windows open on 30 and 40 degree days.

 

[weatherguy]

You talking about a masonry heater? I've been in thousands of houses in Massachusetts and Connecticut and only seen 1 in all those years, I saw on Tulikivi too, beautiful heater. The masonry heater was pretty big with a bench and wood storage built in, heated a 1800 sf cape. They said they never need the oil.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah, masonry heater. My bad. It was maybe 8 feet long and 3 feet wide going straight up. I thought at first it was a fireplace that was facing the other wall until I saw the double doors on the end. I saw an oil fill pipe coming out the wall of the house, but I doubt they were heating with that and leaving the windows open upstairs.

 

[smokedragon]

I have seen a bunch of these homemade jobs that look pretty neat (without spending the thousands upon thousands that you would spend for a commercial unit). Spoke to my agent, and she said "unless it is designed, certified, built, and installed by a licensed professional, it would void your policy"

The real issue is they want UL listing, they want to know it's safe, they want to know you aren't going to burn your house down.

Everything I have seen about these things is that they are clean and heat very well......but until we can get the cost down (or make them more acceptable/mainstream for those of us who have mortgages and need insurance) it isn't feasible.

 

[byQ]

I'm building a masonry heater. I know I have enough fire brick for the insides but I'm not sure if I have enough stone for the outside. So I laid out the door and crudely laid some stone around it to see how much stone it took. Here is a picture. The front will take more than this because it will be taller and wider on one side where the flue goes up. But I got a rough idea.


And I've still got some stone left for the other 2 short sides. The back doesn't matter since it will be about 10" from a parallel wall (so invisible) - I can use 'whatever' for the back (like uglies, off-colors, bricks if required, etc..).

I've got big stones for the bottom. Because they are thick I'll build a bench below the door. Like this,

I'm going to try and put the clean-out doors on the sides not the front like in this picture. And I've got some granite scraps so I'll figure out some sort of design above the door. And I was thinking of using white mortar instead of grey.

 

[smokedragon]

That will be SLICK.....when are you coming to my house

So how are you going to get the homeowner's insurance to ok it?

 

[DougA]

Looks nice.

 

[byQ]

That will be SLICK.....when are you coming to my house

So how are you going to get the homeowner's insurance to ok it?

Well I'll probably try to become a certified masonry heater builder. The masonry heater association has a program for aspirants. I need to build 2 heaters and show pictures of the builds and take some courses. I know I'm building mine so that leaves one more. Maybe after I build mine I'll post on here to see if I can find someone who wants to try a masonry heater - I would probably build it at cost, gas, and a workman's wages. With my thrifty ways the heater would probably cost around the cost of a good wood stove. The build would be examined by certified mason(s), and if they were satisfied I see no reason why the homeowner couldn't get insurance.

Masonry heaters are safe - you do your 2 to 3 hour burn when you are home. Light it, crack the door, and once started close the door. Wood burns and damper is closed. And you are done for the day. Five inches or greater thickness is pretty thick. And if you forget to close the damper? No danger you just lose some of the heater's efficiency.

 

[begreen]

Um, a good wood stove is around $2.5K. If it needs a flue add say $1.5K. If you can do a masonry stove of equal heating value for $4K you are the man.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Well I'll probably try to become a certified masonry heater builder. The masonry heater association has a program for aspirants. I need to build 2 heaters and show pictures of the builds and take some courses. I know I'm building mine so that leaves one more. Maybe after I build mine I'll post on here to see if I can find someone who wants to try a masonry heater - I would probably build it at cost, gas, and a workman's wages. With my thrifty ways the heater would probably cost around the cost of a good wood stove. The build would be examined by certified mason(s), and if they were satisfied I see no reason why the homeowner couldn't get insurance.

Masonry heaters are safe - you do your 2 to 3 hour burn when you are home. Light it, crack the door, and once started close the door. Wood burns and damper is closed. And you are done for the day. Five inches or greater thickness is pretty thick. And if you forget to close the damper? No danger you just lose some of the heater's efficiency.

I don't mean to be rude.. but have you ever actually dealt with an insurance company? Ever tried to insure outside the "norm"? I seriously doubt "certified masons" are going to get it done for an insurance company in this case. I hate to say it, I would even seriously doubt most companies will recognize the certification process you are planning to take (I would certainly check into it first).

And really, I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer.. but I have had a lot of experience with the insurance industry, and how it works. They are one (very small) step down from a Vegas casino when it comes to covering and hedging their bets. It's not going to be about if "it's safe", or if it's "efficient", If it's "easy to operate". It's going to be about there being enough data, for an actuary to sit down and do a assessment of viable risk/profit. And them being able to make "X" profit. Period.

It's like log homes.. here, you can build a log home, yourself. Heck, you can build it anyway you want, from trees cut on your own property, by hand just like 'ol Daniel did.. BUT, if you need to have it insured... that is a WHOLE other matter. In this state, only ONE company will write it in the first place, and they have to inspect it with a fine toothed comb before they will cover it. You can't shop it, you can't compare it, you can't do anything but hope that one company gives you coverage once done. If you use a kit, from a company they know and trust, it goes "easier".. but still subject to their approval, with no other vendor or option.

And really, I love the idea of a MH.. In a log home.. But in the real world.. I don't have the money or desire to be self insured on an "item" that high/important. In our case, our home is in the neighborhood of a half million dollars, and while we have enough in savings to actually rebuild it if needed, I would much rather pay $1500 a year in insurance covering our home and property, and by default, our savings and retirement..

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What would be the difference if you built enclosed chimneys with small doors and an odd flue? How would the insurance company understand the difference?

 

[DougA]

Actually, many masonry heaters use SS insulated chimneys once you are above the height of the heater and the doors are the same size as any large stove. They just look tiny compared to the huge face of the heater.

Point is that insurance companies have no one to answer to except their stock holders and all they want is $$$$.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Actually, many masonry heaters use SS insulated chimneys once you are above the height of the heater and the doors are the same size as any large stove. They just look tiny compared to the huge face of the heater.

Point is that insurance companies have no one to answer to except their stock holders and all they want is $$$$.

Yes, the point of being an investor is to have an ROI, preferably as large as possible. (I may be speaking for myself here, but I doubt it, every single dollar we have ever invested, from stocks to bonds to IRA's and 401k's, is expected to make us more dollars..) And that means investing in companies that do their homework, and assume as little risk as possible. The point of being a publicly traded company is to raise capital through investors. To have/get investors, the company needs to do due diligence. Basic financial theory.

Whether it is right or wrong, or some other system than capitalism is better or worse, is outside the purview of this forum. The fact that most, if not nearly every member here, has to deal with the reality of the insurance companies having a say in their lives, as far as burning wood, is not. IMHO.

 

[DevilsBrew]

Kivas are built the same way. From what I understand, it is a small open fireplace used to heat mass.

 

[alex14]

From my point of view masonry heater is the best!! I had personal experience of it. Masonry heater never needs Oil

 

[byQ]

Yes I agree these wood burning devices are probably the apex wood burning predator (in the right house of course - open plan, not too big and decent insulation). Unfortunately many houses in North America aren't built with energy savings in mind and are huge, so they are built to be wasteful with big HVAC systems.

Than a person tries to reduce their heating bills with wood heat. In these cases it is probably better to go with an EPA certified wood stove (convection heat is good at getting around). There are basically 3 types of people who want a masonry heater,

$15k - $35K option, 1) Someone who is well-off financially and wants the best, a centerpiece in the living room. They can afford to hire a masonry heater builder, and can have the mason build the heater to their specifications with add-ons (like special cut stone or an oven or large bench). As beautiful as a top fireplace and as or more efficient than an EPA wood stove - can't beat that.

$5k - 15k option, 2) The conscientious person. They recognize that this is probably the best way to burn wood and although expensive they figure out a way to get a simple masonry heater built by a mason. Maybe they get a core and put it together themselves and then hire a mason for the shell part. Or maybe they get a mason to build them a core and build the shell themselves.

$750 - $5k option, 3) The guy or gal who thinks they can do it all themselves. They look at a masonry heater and see that it appears to be made from common materials - like stone or brick. How much more complicated can it be than a fireplace? They start the learning process. Their goal is mainly to get a top-notch wood burning device. If it looks good too? - that is a nice bonus. Once they feel they have enough know-how on masonry heaters (maybe attended a seminar/class or 2) they build one.

I fall into category #3. My cost for my first heater will be around $1200 (a medium sized one). But after all of my masonry heater research, I could build a second no-frills small masonry heater for $750.

 

[Kosmik]

I fall into category #3. My cost for my first heater will be around $1200 (a medium sized one). But after all of my masonry heater research, I could build a second no-frills small masonry heater for $750.

Well, since they were developed to make good use of all usable firewood/fuel (limbs, branches, uglies [stuff we save for 'shoulder' season], even bundled grasses)...
You're keeping in the spirit of the technology.
Making treasure out of trash.

I like the Tyrolean style with the bed above the oven, for a cabin or something rustic...But a contraflow sure does look sharp.