Measuring and Displaying Temperatures

[McKraut]

I am looking for advice with what to do with my in-house boiler display. Last year when I installed the boiler, I ran 2 lines of 5-wire thermostat wire the 100 feet from the boiler shed to the house. I had an Azel Digital Temperature Gauge to give me readouts on the temperature of the boiler return and supply. The problem I ran into (according to the manufacturer's representative) was that since the thermometers are thermistors, the distance of the run from the shed to the house added error, so the temp readouts were off by as much as 70 to 80 degrees. They did not offer any solution to the problem.
What I would like to do is to have a display in the house that will tell me the temperature of the boiler supply and return. I did not have, but I would also like to monitor the stack temperature.
What I would like to know is:

• What thermometer can I use that won't be affected by the length of wire?

• What wire should I run from the house to the shed for the displays (if the thermostat wire is not correct)?

• Is there a special temperature sensor required for the supply and return pipes?

• What should I use as a temperature sensor for the stove pipe? I want a digital readout.

• What is a good digital display for the temperatures (and source) for this set-up?

I don't understand much about electronics, so keep it simple for me. I am very good at following sound advice and good directions.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

 

[Coal Reaper]

Controlbyweb x-300

 

[McKraut]

I downloaded their product catalog and was just looking at it. I'm not sure if this is exactly what I'm looking for or not.

 

[atvalaska]

I can't help ya ...but I did run 2 sets of 6pr wire in my trench ! ...looking to do the same !

 

[rkusek]

I think it would be easier to mount all the gauges you already have by the boiler and mount a Web camera that can see them all at once. Pretty easy if your wireless Internet can reach the boiler shed. That would allow you to view when not home too. I'm going to try same using an old deactivated smartphone as the camera since that and WiFi will still work. My shed is 350 feet away though so will need to put a wireless router down there.

 

[WES999]

You could try this:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=449
You would be on the high limit on range (100')

Are you sure that the temp reading is that far off? I have a thermistor sensor on my solar collector on the roof,
controller in the basement, about 50-60' wire run that works fine.

You could use 2 or 3 of these and mount them in a nice box.
(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Display-Meter-Thermocouple-K-S-R-J-B-RTD-Current-and-Voltage-/250560352354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a568f9062)
With a K or a J thermocouple 100' of wire should be fine.

 

[Coal Reaper]

i tihnk the sensors for x-300 can go that far or you can just run a cat5 from house computer and have the unit at the storage tanks like i did.
this is the display i get: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/controlbyweb-x300-temp-monitor.116801/
you can also fix it up so you can view from any computer or smartphone, but i have not got tot hat yet...

 

[McKraut]

I think it would be easier to mount all the gauges you already have by the boiler and mount a Web camera that can see them all at once. Pretty easy if your wireless Internet can reach the boiler shed. That would allow you to view when not home too. I'm going to try same using an old deactivated smartphone as the camera since that and WiFi will still work. My shed is 350 feet away though so will need to put a wireless router down there.

I have considered this, but the wireless doesn't give me a signal.

 

[McKraut]

You could try this:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=449
You would be on the high limit on range (100')

Are you sure that the temp reading is that far off? I have a thermistor sensor on my solar collector on the roof,
controller in the basement, about 50-60' wire run that works fine.

You could use 2 or 3 of these and mount them in a nice box.
(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Display-Meter-Thermocouple-K-S-R-J-B-RTD-Current-and-Voltage-/250560352354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a568f9062)
With a K or a J thermocouple 100' of wire should be fine.

I will keep this in mind, and look into it over the holiday weekend. Yes, unfortunately, the Azel said that the boiler was supplying 243* to the house. Thanks for the info.

Bob

 

[McKraut]

i tihnk the sensors for x-300 can go that far or you can just run a cat5 from house computer and have the unit at the storage tanks like i did.
this is the display i get: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/controlbyweb-x300-temp-monitor.116801/
you can also fix it up so you can view from any computer or smartphone, but i have not got tot hat yet...

What do you think of the X-300 so far? I'm not tech savvy so I need something that is easy/intuitive to use. In your thread what is the display showing your temperatures?

Bob

 

[Coal Reaper]

its great. i am not very good with the computers either but it was not a problem to set it up to a dedicated laptop by just following the directions. it will take you some "quiet time" to read everything through and get it set up. getting the internet capability takes a bit more and i am not on that level. waiting for a friend to give me a hand with that still. each sensor has it own unique identifying number so you can move them around on the screen so it displays how you want and you can also give each a name. i have not played with the relays yet but they requitre a low voltage circuit to operate the coil.
those pics are screenshots from the laptop. display shows temps at different levels in the tank. 4/4 is top/supply, 0/4 is bottom/return, and then the temp in my boiler room as well as the barn where the storage tanks live and boiler room is located. boiler room is insulated (but without a door) and barn is uninsulated steel structure.

 

[JP11]

What do you think of the X-300 so far? I'm not tech savvy so I need something that is easy/intuitive to use. In your thread what is the display showing your temperatures?

Bob

I got the lower box. doesn't do a couple of the functions of the 300.. but worked great. pretty easy setup. I did just use an internet 'bridge' to put wired internet over my electrical grid out to the barn. Well over 500' of wire to get out there..and internet works great.

JP

 

[McKraut]

its great. i am not very good with the computers either but it was not a problem to set it up to a dedicated laptop by just following the directions. it will take you some "quiet time" to read everything through and get it set up. getting the internet capability takes a bit more and i am not on that level. waiting for a friend to give me a hand with that still. each sensor has it own unique identifying number so you can move them around on the screen so it displays how you want and you can also give each a name. i have not played with the relays yet but they requitre a low voltage circuit to operate the coil.
those pics are screenshots from the laptop. display shows temps at different levels in the tank. 4/4 is top/supply, 0/4 is bottom/return, and then the temp in my boiler room as well as the barn where the storage tanks live and boiler room is located. boiler room is insulated (but without a door) and barn is uninsulated steel structure.

Do you have the X-300 in your boiler room, and then run Cat5 wire to your router(house)? I'm still trying to figure out how my set up will work.
Bob

 

[McKraut]

its great. i am not very good with the computers either but it was not a problem to set it up to a dedicated laptop by just following the directions. it will take you some "quiet time" to read everything through and get it set up. getting the internet capability takes a bit more and i am not on that level. waiting for a friend to give me a hand with that still. each sensor has it own unique identifying number so you can move them around on the screen so it displays how you want and you can also give each a name. i have not played with the relays yet but they requitre a low voltage circuit to operate the coil.
those pics are screenshots from the laptop. display shows temps at different levels in the tank. 4/4 is top/supply, 0/4 is bottom/return, and then the temp in my boiler room as well as the barn where the storage tanks live and boiler room is located. boiler room is insulated (but without a door) and barn is uninsulated steel structure.

Sorry, follow up question for you and JT. Do you monitor your storage tank temps too?

 

[McKraut]

I got the lower box. doesn't do a couple of the functions of the 300.. but worked great. pretty easy setup. I did just use an internet 'bridge' to put wired internet over my electrical grid out to the barn. Well over 500' of wire to get out there..and internet works great.

JP

Thanks JP. When you say lower box, do you mean the Temperature Module? I don't know what a bridge is but I was planning on having the module in the boiler room, running Cat5 wire from the module to the router in the house, then picking up the signal from the router. Will that work?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Tennman]

I'm trying to solve a similar problem. Just read about "powerline network adapters" like you're using JP. That looks like it would allow me to keep my pump out in the barn but avoid trenching for a Cat5. It looks like these inexpensive network adapters and the X-300 product will allow me to control my pump remotely, give me the internet in the barn, and some data logging. Which powerline adapter are you using? Taco offers a network compatible ECM pump so this would tie it all together.

 

[Coal Reaper]

Do you have the X-300 in your boiler room, and then run Cat5 wire to your router(house)? I'm still trying to figure out how my set up will work.
Bob

yes. cat5 goes from x-300 directly to dedicated laptop. gotta adjust some setting (in the directions) and set the pre-determined IP address. then youre good to go. that hardest part is figuring out which sensor is located where. i had a fire and the first ones to warm up started at the top of the tanks. but then the sensor on the return line threw everything off and i just had to figure that out.

 

[Coal Reaper]

Sorry, follow up question for you and JT. Do you monitor your storage tank temps too?

yup. thats the whole idea of this, isnt it? a quick glance at the screen can tell me how much heat i have left in the tanks. multiple sensors is much better than just one at top and bottom. if i care to do the math, i can figure out how many pounds of wood to load in my boiler to bring it to full charge (assuming no call for heat at the house of course).

 

[JP11]

I'm trying to solve a similar problem. Just read about "powerline network adapters" like you're using JP. That looks like it would allow me to keep my pump out in the barn but avoid trenching for a Cat5. It looks like these inexpensive network adapters and the X-300 product will allow me to control my pump remotely, give me the internet in the barn, and some data logging. Which powerline adapter are you using? Taco offers a network compatible ECM pump so this would tie it all together.

Yes. I used the 'temperature module' because I didn't care about accessing from internet, or data log gin.. I can access from anywhere on same IP address (anywhere connected in my house or barn)

Yes.. no trenching needed. I just used a 'ethernet bridge' or power line network adapter if you want to go over 500 feet, and thru 3 junction boxes, and the internet is plenty fast.

Bridge says 'PLUG LINK by Asoka' on it.

JP

 

[JP11]

yup. thats the whole idea of this, isnt it? a quick glance at the screen can tell me how much heat i have left in the tanks. multiple sensors is much better than just one at top and bottom. if i care to do the math, i can figure out how many pounds of wood to load in my boiler to bring it to full charge (assuming no call for heat at the house of course).

yes. I have two tanks.. with top and bottom probes in each. I don't think any more sensors are required. In fact.. when spray foaming, one of my two 'tank bottom' got taken out. Two tanks are plumbed identical, and temps stay right together.

JP

 

[Tennman]

Thx JP. Pretty powerful and hopefully user friendly. Solves a lot of issues for me.

 

[McKraut]

yes. cat5 goes from x-300 directly to dedicated laptop. gotta adjust some setting (in the directions) and set the pre-determined IP address. then youre good to go. that hardest part is figuring out which sensor is located where. i had a fire and the first ones to warm up started at the top of the tanks. but then the sensor on the return line threw everything off and i just had to figure that out.

yes. cat5 goes from x-300 directly to dedicated laptop. gotta adjust some setting (in the directions) and set the pre-determined IP address. then youre good to go. that hardest part is figuring out which sensor is located where. i had a fire and the first ones to warm up started at the top of the tanks. but then the sensor on the return line threw everything off and i just had to figure that out.

OK. I did contact the manufacturer and found out a few things from them. This looks like this is the way to go. Thanks for your help.

Bob

 

[McKraut]

Yes. I used the 'temperature module' because I didn't care about accessing from internet, or data log gin.. I can access from anywhere on same IP address (anywhere connected in my house or barn)

Yes.. no trenching needed. I just used a 'ethernet bridge' or power line network adapter if you want to go over 500 feet, and thru 3 junction boxes, and the internet is plenty fast.

Bridge says 'PLUG LINK by Asoka' on it.

JP

JP, I am looking at the Plug Link and I have a question about the setup. Do you have to install two of the units? I would think you'd need a unit to transmit the data and one unit to receive the data. I am glad to hear about this option. It will save a lot of time.

Bob

 

[McKraut]

yup. thats the whole idea of this, isnt it? a quick glance at the screen can tell me how much heat i have left in the tanks. multiple sensors is much better than just one at top and bottom. if i care to do the math, i can figure out how many pounds of wood to load in my boiler to bring it to full charge (assuming no call for heat at the house of course).

Sorry, that was the wrong question. I meant to ask if you monitor your stack temperature, not storage. The Control by Web representative said the X-300 was good only up to 257*

 

[JP11]

JP, I am looking at the Plug Link and I have a question about the setup. Do you have to install two of the units? I would think you'd need a unit to transmit the data and one unit to receive the data. I am glad to hear about this option. It will save a lot of time.

Bob

I'm not entirely sure, as I didn't buy them at the store. BUT.. the two units are identical. I assume they come in packs of 2. You plug it in the wall, and plug the internet cable in. I haven't bothered to put a wireless router in the barn yet... but after a nasty virus attack on my wife' s data.. I'm leaning towards Network Attached storage out there. I'll just add a hub to the plug out at the barn. Right now it just goes into the inverter.