RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
This tool is, I think, a bit easier to use: hvac.betterbuiltnw.com
I actually used both, for my application, and they were re-assuringly close.
Mini split recommendations
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I actually used both, for my application, and they were re-assuringly close.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
There are actually now available connectors for refrigerant lines that are "push to connect" like SharkBite plumbing fittings.
A local friend, who does HVAC work, swears by them. He uses the ones called "sockets" that connect to the factory flares on one end and are push-to-connect on the other end. Installs them on the two lines on the inside and outside unit first. Then cuts the line-set to fit, cleans up the ends real well (like you would for a SharkBite) and pushes in to conenct.
I believe he uses a different brand though, only sold at HVAC supply houses (that typically won't sell to DIYers).
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Mr cool 24k is now 1900$.
It’s a hot one here today. Ac came on at 3 and has not shut off. Temp is 2 degrees above set point. If I keep putting my mini split off and we get some record temps my Maine born wife won’t be happy.
It’s a hot one here today. Ac came on at 3 and has not shut off. Temp is 2 degrees above set point. If I keep putting my mini split off and we get some record temps my Maine born wife won’t be happy.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Yep, and the Mitsubishi I linked above is $2088. Hence my dilemma. Do I pay virtually the same, for what by all accounts is a far superior unit (both in reliability AND in performance), at the cost of having no warranty because of my DIY install ? I'm leaning towards "yes".
THE top brand, two-ton, for right at $2K. Of course, this doesn't include the line-set and other installation parts
Mitsubishi MZ-HM24NA - 24k BTU Cooling + Heating - HM-Series Wall Mounted Air Conditioning System - 20.0 SEER2
Buy Mitsubishi MZ-HM24NA Today. Free Shipping. Check the Mitsubishi - 24k BTU Cooling + Heating - HM-Series Wall Mounted Air Conditioning System - 20.0 SEER2 ratings before checking out.www.ecomfort.com
I assume you have done your homework between the two models with respect to annual efficiencies? The up front cost savings is rapidly eaten up by long term operating expenses. I would do it myself but its PITA to find the spec sheets for specific units as every manufacturer had many models.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Well, the costs of the units is similar.
Actually, there's a great site that does this for you.
ASHP
ashp.neep.org
They should have the MrCool too. Can do a search at the site, or type in model numbers from a vendor's site. Not sure if this is the specific $1900 one that people are discussing here ...
ASHP
ashp.neep.org
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Biggest difference I noticed in general was the the mr cool diy lowest output was much greater than the Mitsubishi units I was comparing. Not a big deal but I wanted constant dehumidification without much cooling. 18 vs 20 SEER, I personally wouldn’t see much benifit in the higher rating.
I vote Mitsubishi.
I vote Mitsubishi.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Mitsu over MrCool, for sure. But I'm actually voting Fujitsu. Look at this sucker ...
ASHP
ashp.neep.org
... It keeps doing 18Kbtu/hr even at 5 degrees, but at 47 degrees it turns down to 2800btu/hr. That's less than a freakin' hair dryer !
You should be aware that Mitsubishi units are currently very difficult to get, a lot of orders are backed 6+ months out. The online retailers may be hesitant to let you know about that, because they still want your money.
According to what I've been able to find online, pretty much all of the non-Japanese mini splits are made by one of two major manufacturers, either Midea or Gree. Other brands (like MrCool) buy them wholesale and slap their name on. I think even the off brands have a pretty good reputation as far as performance and reliability, but 90% of that is dependent on the quality of the installation.
I have heard horror stories about the MrCool quick connects leaking from the factory. Maybe they've improved over the past few years, but I still don't trust them.
We were really impressed by the performance and price point of our Pioneer system, so at my wife's request, I just bought and installed a second one last weekend. This time it's a 2-zone, 9k+9k btu to take care of the upstairs of our old Colonial.
I had zero issues with the install, other than the insane location we chose for the outdoor unit (up high on a wall, above a 1st story roof) to keep it out of sight from the nosey historic district people. But we managed to hoist it up there without dropping it. Used all the tools I had still on hand from the first install, rented a small tank of nitrogen from Airgas, took my time and had it done in 2 days.
According to what I've been able to find online, pretty much all of the non-Japanese mini splits are made by one of two major manufacturers, either Midea or Gree. Other brands (like MrCool) buy them wholesale and slap their name on. I think even the off brands have a pretty good reputation as far as performance and reliability, but 90% of that is dependent on the quality of the installation.
I have heard horror stories about the MrCool quick connects leaking from the factory. Maybe they've improved over the past few years, but I still don't trust them.
We were really impressed by the performance and price point of our Pioneer system, so at my wife's request, I just bought and installed a second one last weekend. This time it's a 2-zone, 9k+9k btu to take care of the upstairs of our old Colonial.
I had zero issues with the install, other than the insane location we chose for the outdoor unit (up high on a wall, above a 1st story roof) to keep it out of sight from the nosey historic district people. But we managed to hoist it up there without dropping it. Used all the tools I had still on hand from the first install, rented a small tank of nitrogen from Airgas, took my time and had it done in 2 days.
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RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
I don't have any direct experience with the vendor I plan to use, as yet (ecomfort-DOT-com) but their website appears to be honest about lead-times, saying some items (particularly Mitsu) are backordered, other 3-4 weeks, others in-stock.
Just saying, my buddy ordered one earlier this year that said 3-4 weeks, time came and went, they gave him the run around for 2 months until they finally admitted it would be another 6+ months but no guarantee so he ended up canceling it. I believe this was from HVAC Direct.
That was one reason I chose to go with pioneer again. At least they don't seem to be having any supply chain issues at the moment.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
@RustyShackleford I just yesterday fired up a self installed 1900$ 24k mr cool at my house. Happy to answer any questions. It’s all about warranty. Self installed mr cools get a warranty. This thing is great. I’ve never had AC before. Keeping my 1963 1700sf as cold as I want it from a central location in the mid 90s ambient with no shade.
Install was easy.
Install was easy.
No details but the inflation reduction bill reportedly has a $8000 tax credit for minisplits for low income home owners and $2000 credit for anyone to install one. I think the price of minisplits is going up. The old R410 units are being cleaned out of inventory while the new refrigerant units will be coming out soon.
Sorry if you have already answered this on another thread, but is there an advantage to waiting for the new units with new refrigerant? Does it improve the efficiency or maintaince of the units?
From a equipment performance perspective I don't think R32 or R454b have any advantages over R410A. They are more environmentally friendly, that's it.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
And flammable.
I don’t see any reason to wait and I really don’t want to own the first generation of new equipment so there is a reason to get a 410a unit.
The biggest issue is in order to get a future rebate, the unit needs to be certified to certain performance standard and listed. When I checked a couple of weeks ago the listing agency had no listings yet. Therefore claiming a rebate on current unlisted model could be problem.
I think the rational on the potential flammability of the replacements is that its small volume of gas that would rapidly get diluted if there was a leak.
I think the rational on the potential flammability of the replacements is that its small volume of gas that would rapidly get diluted if there was a leak.
Yeah, I don't really see too many people proactively preparing for the phaseout. No units certified or for sale with the new refrigerant yet. I suppose manufacturers must have the new system designs up their sleeves but they seem to be mainly focused on cranking out 410a units while they still can.
I also think the hazard of flammable refrigerant is overblown. Many smaller commercial refrigeration systems have been using R290 (propane) for decades without major incidents. Most of the risk arises from improper servicing by untrained technicians.
I also think the hazard of flammable refrigerant is overblown. Many smaller commercial refrigeration systems have been using R290 (propane) for decades without major incidents. Most of the risk arises from improper servicing by untrained technicians.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
I installed a 3 zone Mr. Cool DIY system a year and a half ago and am happy with its performance. Wife wasn't too thrilled with the heads on the wall but after having it through some pretty hot days for the PNW she is absolutely glad they are there and forgets that they are there now until someone asks about them. So much better than portable and window units. We have a poorly insulated house and when we had over 100-degree days last year for a few days the thing never skipped a beat and kept the house at 74 except for an outlier next to a sun facing wall was 78. In the wintertime it is nice to be able to leave the house for a long period of time and not have to use the baseboard heaters and just keep the house at 64 ish till we get home and fire the wood stoves back up.
I had to buy multiple extensions and connectors to get the inside units where I wanted them to where the wife wanted the outside unit. Overall pleased with the purchase and saved a ton of money compared to what the local HVAC guys wanted for similar installed units at 4 times the cost.
I had to buy multiple extensions and connectors to get the inside units where I wanted them to where the wife wanted the outside unit. Overall pleased with the purchase and saved a ton of money compared to what the local HVAC guys wanted for similar installed units at 4 times the cost.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I also recently self installed a Mr cool DIY minisplit unit. 24k sized to heat the home. Very cheap after utility rebates and even some federal rebates I expect. We all hate how the inside units look and they make noise and blow air so you don't really want it real close.
I stuck my inside unit in sort of an adjacent room with no doors and plenty of airflow to the main space. It blows into the main space quite well at least with cold air. We will soon find out if heat moves as easily. You don't have to put the dang thing in your living room!
Our other heat source is wood and electric wall heaters. It was in the low 40s last night and the house was 67 this morning. We have a LONG heating season that is not too intense so I'm hoping the minisplit can reduce the burning season.
I stuck my inside unit in sort of an adjacent room with no doors and plenty of airflow to the main space. It blows into the main space quite well at least with cold air. We will soon find out if heat moves as easily. You don't have to put the dang thing in your living room!
Our other heat source is wood and electric wall heaters. It was in the low 40s last night and the house was 67 this morning. We have a LONG heating season that is not too intense so I'm hoping the minisplit can reduce the burning season.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
Your install looks great! I’m curious how it works for you this winter too. More often than not, my stove runs on 1, which works out to about 10k BTU. If I could offset that much with a mini split, and it would still deliver a decent ROI, then I’d go for it. It would also allow me to keep my boiler pilot off permanently, which would save a little more during the heating season.
hockeypuck
Feeling the Heat
I use mine for heating more than I do for cooling. I never intended to use it for heat. It was an after thought. Mine is a 3rd gen Mr. Cool. I use it for heat down to 25. It goes lower than that, but usually turn to wood and pellets if the weather is going to stay in the 20s for an extended period of time.
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