Modern Stoves, What Makes Them Better

[Don H]

Seems we always get into a discussion about how the modern stoves are far better than the old Fishers, which brings to mind a few questions:

1. What features make a modern stove more efficient or better? How do these features work?
2. Do these features decrease the service life of a modern stove? Are we going to see 40 or 50 year old modern stove still working in the future?
3. Do modern stoves have parts that commonly have to be replaced such as a catalytic, electronics or blowers? If so what is the life expectancy of these parts and what is their cost? Will they be available in the future?

I own two stoves, both from the early 80's. I have no knowledge of new stoves but I'm looking to buy something with glass to view the fire.

 

[CamFan]

You will burn less wood in my opinion. They burn cleaner much better clearance for install. Easier to get insurance.
Wear depends on the user in most cases.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

Seems we always get into a discussion about how the modern stoves are far better than the old Fishers, which brings to mind a few questions:

1. What features make a modern stove more efficient or better? How do these features work?
2. Do these features decrease the service life of a modern stove? Are we going to see 40 or 50 year old modern stove still working in the future?
3. Do modern stoves have parts that commonly have to be replaced such as a catalytic, electronics or blowers? If so what is the life expectancy of these parts and what is their cost? Will they be available in the future?

I own two stoves, both from the early 80's. I have no knowledge of new stoves but I'm looking to buy something with glass to view the fire.

1. More heat from each piece of wood. How that is done depends upon how the stove is designed there are several different approaches.
There are tube stoves which direct air into the top of the firebox under a baffle igniting unburnt material in the smoke.

There are cat stoves that use a catalytic combuster to burn off the smoke. These typically allow better turndown and longer burn times at lower more constant BTUs.

There are a few that use a combustion box in the back of the stove.

And there are hybrid stoves that combine tubes and cat.

2. They can reduce the life if not designed correctly. Usually not properly allowing for differences in expansion and contraction.
But yes some will be around in 40 or 50 years. Some won't the same as older stoves.

3. There are some parts that will need replaced. And that will depend upon the stove.
Tube stoves are pretty durable you will need to do brick and gaskets periodically and maybe a baffle but usually only if you hit it. My regency is over 10 years old with no parts needed.
Cat stoves will need a new cat after approximately 10000 hours.
The combustion chamber stoves are generally a maintenance problem.
Yes many have blowers available just as many old stoves did but they are not needed to use the stove.

 

[Don H]

So it looks like a cat stove would need a replacement ever 4-5 years at about $200 each. They seems to be really available.
Do any of these stoves have electronics? (like a pellet stove)

 

[SpaceBus]

So it looks like a cat stove would need a replacement ever 4-5 years at about $200 each. They seems to be really available.
Do any of these stoves have electronics? (like a pellet stove)

I think there are only a few stoves and maybe just one freestanding unit that has electronics. All of the wood stoves I know of with electronics can be bypassed and operated manually.

 

[bholler]

So it looks like a cat stove would need a replacement ever 4-5 years at about $200 each. They seems to be really available.
Do any of these stoves have electronics? (like a pellet stove)

Cat replacement depends upon useage. And I only know of one stove that has electronic controls. And it can be bypassed if need be

 

[Don H]

If you get 10,000 hours out of a Cat and around here we burn stoves 3-4 months a year, assuming 24 hours a day that's just over 3 years of life. I'm sure type of wood, moisture content and other factors apply.
Also how often do baffle boards and baffle tubes need to be replaced on a modern stove?
I'm looking at a 15 year old Quadrafire that's had both boards and tubes replaced. Is this normal? (broken link removed to https://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/d/hampstead-wood-stove/7045692228.html)

 

[bholler]

If you get 10,000 hours out of a Cat and around here we burn stoves 3-4 months a year, assuming 24 hours a day that's just over 3 years of life. I'm sure type of wood, moisture content and other factors apply.
Also how often do baffle boards and baffle tubes need to be replaced on a modern stove?
I'm looking at a 15 year old Quadrafire that's had both boards and tubes replaced. Is this normal? (broken link removed to https://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/d/hampstead-wood-stove/7045692228.html)

Quad baffles are fairly delicate. But replacing tubes is not normal at all. I would be concerned the stove was overfired. The price is good though certainly worth investigating.

 

[coaly]

Don, you may want to wait for the unveiling of my new stove that $100 deposit will reserve your chance for the new Fisher Stove;
The Fishla, "Cyber Stove" ™ ready for production early 2050 !

Features will include 16 inches floor clearance making floor protection a thing of the past.
Lazer ignition, standard.
1/4 inch "30Z" stainless steel construction, a new high heat radiating alloy.
Thermocouple generator for high temp LED lighting.
Bottom auger ash removal system Big Bear Dump ®.

"Summer Mode" ™ top opens to grow your own firewood when installed in direct sunlight.

 

[Don H]

Does it split and stack the wood in summer mode?

 

[coaly]

Does it split and stack the wood in summer mode?

Yes ! There is a $7000 deposit to lock in the auto-pilot option price.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes ! There is a $7000 deposit to lock in the auto-pilot option price.

View attachment 254417

Sounds like a steal

 

[Todd67]

10,000 hours of burning 24 hours a day is less than 14 months of continuous burning. We burn 8-9 months a year, but only about 5-6 months per year continuous, depending on the severity of the winter.

Looks like I'll hold on to my Fisher until coaly has his new stove on the market

 

[bholler]

10,000 hours of burning 24 hours a day is less than 14 months of continuous burning. We burn 8-9 months a year, but only about 5-6 months per year continuous, depending on the severity of the winter.

Looks like I'll hold on to my Fisher until coaly has his new stove on the market

There are plenty of noncats available. And most full time burners get 2 to 3 years from a cat

 

[begreen]

So it looks like a cat stove would need a replacement ever 4-5 years at about $200 each. They seems to be really available.
Do any of these stoves have electronics? (like a pellet stove)

It depends on the hours on the cat. In Md you might get 5 yrs or more out of the cat if the stove is used only a few months/year. If one is heating 24/7 for six months of the year than a replacement every 2.5 yrs might be needed. Typically there are no electronics in existing models. That may change over the next years.

Both a cat stove and a non-cat will have much lower emissions than an old smoke dragon. They will be more efficient and burn less wood. However, they want fully seasoned wood for fuel to achieve this. Service life depends on the stove design and how it's run. If one constantly overfires a stove (even an old pre-EPA stove), its service life will be shorter. A stove that is more complex will have more to go wrong. A KISS stove less so. Some non-cat stoves are exceptionally simple. Ours doesn't even have tubes. The secondary air is passed through the lower part of the stainless baffle.

Besides using less wood a modern stove will give you a great fire view, which for me is worth the price of admission. It's better than most TV.

 

[BeautifulBC]

At 10,000 hours per cat, I should get six plus years.

 

[coaly]

Here's a question pertaining to newer EPA stoves.
A local church has asked me to get someone heat that is in dire need of a fireplace insert.
It is a cast iron stove with missing glass replaced with poorly fitting metal, broken door at hinge pin area, older style stove direct connected to a 8 inch square masonry chimney, 15 plus feet high in good condition. It has a homemade offset box on top of the insert making good contact on the bottom of chimney liner. Custom made, has only needed cleaning every 3 years, worked great while the stove was safe.
The church paying for this is willing to go with an older Insert that I can connect to liner with block off plate, similar to what is there. Stainless liner out of the question.
I found a England Stove Works Insert that will fit, secondary combustion, non-cat for a fraction of the new price. Unfired. Manual recommends or requires (not sure which) 6 inch chimney. If I were to connect this to the existing 8 X 8 clay liner, it may or may not be good enough for secondary combustion. (I've seen some work connected this way) Could they use this as an old stove would work simply allowing air in the primary inlet for better and safer heat than they have? Plenty of room to fabricate a connection. I can't find an older insert for 8 inch locally, quick to get them better heat!

 

[bholler]

Here's a question pertaining to newer EPA stoves.
A local church has asked me to get someone heat that is in dire need of a fireplace insert.
It is a cast iron stove with missing glass replaced with poorly fitting metal, broken door at hinge pin area, older style stove direct connected to a 8 inch square masonry chimney, 15 plus feet high in good condition. It has a homemade offset box on top of the insert making good contact on the bottom of chimney liner. Custom made, has only needed cleaning every 3 years, worked great while the stove was safe.
The church paying for this is willing to go with an older Insert that I can connect to liner with block off plate, similar to what is there. Stainless liner out of the question.
I found a England Stove Works Insert that will fit, secondary combustion, non-cat for a fraction of the new price. Unfired. Manual recommends or requires (not sure which) 6 inch chimney. If I were to connect this to the existing 8 X 8 clay liner, it may or may not be good enough for secondary combustion. (I've seen some work connected this way) Could they use this as an old stove would work simply allowing air in the primary inlet for better and safer heat than they have? Plenty of room to fabricate a connection. I can't find an older insert for 8 inch locally, quick to get them better heat!

Most modern stoves work fine on 8x8 chimneys. And most englanders are pretty easy breathing as well. It should be ok. It there a stub running up into the clay liner?

 

[coaly]

Not now, only a collar like on a stove on a heavy welded steel box, one facing up, one facing down.
I figured it would probably work, a liner should be in their future, this being an emergency heat source.

 

[bholler]

Not now, only a collar like on a stove on a heavy welded steel box, one facing up, one facing down.
I figured it would probably work, a liner should be in their future, this being an emergency heat source.

Atleast stick a stub of flex liner up into the clay

 

[bholler]

Where are you located in pa and when would you be doing it? I would gladly give you enough liner to do a stub if you give me a rough measurment

 

[SpaceBus]

Here's a question pertaining to newer EPA stoves.
A local church has asked me to get someone heat that is in dire need of a fireplace insert.
It is a cast iron stove with missing glass replaced with poorly fitting metal, broken door at hinge pin area, older style stove direct connected to a 8 inch square masonry chimney, 15 plus feet high in good condition. It has a homemade offset box on top of the insert making good contact on the bottom of chimney liner. Custom made, has only needed cleaning every 3 years, worked great while the stove was safe.
The church paying for this is willing to go with an older Insert that I can connect to liner with block off plate, similar to what is there. Stainless liner out of the question.
I found a England Stove Works Insert that will fit, secondary combustion, non-cat for a fraction of the new price. Unfired. Manual recommends or requires (not sure which) 6 inch chimney. If I were to connect this to the existing 8 X 8 clay liner, it may or may not be good enough for secondary combustion. (I've seen some work connected this way) Could they use this as an old stove would work simply allowing air in the primary inlet for better and safer heat than they have? Plenty of room to fabricate a connection. I can't find an older insert for 8 inch locally, quick to get them better heat!

I burn a tiny Morso 2b Classic EPA stove connected to an 8x8 clay tile liner. The manual suggests a 6" round liner, but 8" square being the largest acceptable size. I have no issues with secondary burn.

 

[coaly]

Monroe County next to NJ, Rt 80 area. This one is Mount Pocono area.
I have straight pieces of 6 inch that should be fine. I use them as connector pipe for coal.
I have a place in Gouldsboro a few miles north that makes liners.
Thanks! Hold onto your chair, coaly is about to install an EPA stove instead of a Fisher.

 

[bholler]

Monroe County next to NJ, Rt 80 area. This one is Mount Pocono area.
I have straight pieces of 6 inch that should be fine. I use them as connector pipe for coal.
I have a place in Gouldsboro a few miles north that makes liners.
Thanks! Hold onto your chair, coaly is about to install an EPA stove instead of a Fisher.

If it is a straight shot regular stainless pipe will work fine. I could run a length of heavy flex out to you this weekend if you want