Modifying a Regency H2100

[wberry85]

I own a Regency H2100 which is technically an insert but we have it configured as a freestanding wood stove. I am having issues getting this stove to burn all night as there just isnt enough room inside of the stove. Upon investigation I see several problems.

The area is limited by two air baffle tubes and a large insulated steel plate. I am contemplating removing both. It seems to be that with the blower taking hot air off the top of the stove this steel plate is doing two things. First, blocking the amount of heat able to reach the top of the stove, severely limiting the amount of heat the stove is able to put off, and also limiting the amount of wood able to be put in the stove down to 2 or 3 logs. I am thinking if I could put more wood in the stove, I could get a longer burn, but two logs just arent going to burn for 8 hours.

I am going to cut out the air baffle tubes as they are not removable that I can tell, and plug the holes with refractory cement. I will then be able to remove the insulated steel plate. I will then be able to fit more wood to burn longer, and the top will get much hotter with direct access to flame increasing the ability of the stove to heat my house.

If I am missing some major benefit of this insulated plate and the air tubes let me know but I cant see how its a good trade off.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. These fireboxes are pretty well designed for maximum combustion efficiency and heat transfer efficiency. Removal of these parts would set the stove design back 40 years and dramatically reduce efficiency. The baffle plate and burn tubes greatly increase the burn efficiency, giving you more heat per pound of wood burned. The baffle increases the wood gas residency time in the firebox leading to more complete combustion along with the secondary tubes. Removing them will allow most of that heat to go straight up the chimney as unburned dirty gases. This is not a trivial difference. The baffle and tubes increase the efficiency by almost 100%. It is such a nice improvement that many folks with older stoves that have no baffle and burn tubes are retrofitting their stoves to have them. They note a very nice improvement after doing this.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ion-complete-heres-hoping-i-smoke-less.104600
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/silent-flame-retrofit-secondary-air-firebrick-etc.147866/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/secondary-air-pipes.153152/#post-2057656
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...retrofit-project-complete.55033/#post-1374171

Removing these parts will essentially destroy the value of the stove. If you need more capacity, sell the stove and put that money down toward one with a larger firebox. This would allow you to buy a stove that is designed to be used freestanding.

 

[edyit]

the insulated plate and air tubes are what give your stove its efficiency they are what cause the secondary burn to happen. if you want a larger fire box to fit more wood in i would suggest buying a larger stove, not hacking this one up

 

[wberry85]

Can we establish what efficiency means here?

It seems that if I am able to remove the barriers between the fire and the top of the stove, in turn allowing the stove to put off more heat, and just regulating the fire size using the damper, it would be MORE efficient than just burning wood and keeping all of the heat contained in a place that is not providing any heat (the firebox). It seems the only thing providing any heat to my stove at this point is an hot air that manages to flow around the top plate towards the top of the stove which is in comparison a very small amount of heat to what an unobstructed access to the actual fire would produce. Without the barrier I could turn the damper down, burn slower, and get more heat to the top of the stove. Right now I have to run a roaring fire just to put off enough heat to get the top of the stove adequately hot.

 

[begreen]

If the stove top is not getting hot enough (it should reach about 500-650º F with good wood) then it's possible that the problem is not with the stove but with something else. The two most likely culprits are poorly seasoned wood or inadequate draft, or both. Do you see good secondary combustion in the firebox?

 

[edyit]

efficiency means getting more btu's from the wood you're burning into the house than up the chimney. throwing more wood in and using a damper to slow burn it is going to cause creosote build up and possible a chimney fire. contrary to what you think the stove will put off more heat with the baffle and reburn tubes in place than it will with them removed. if you're not getting heat off the stove i have to ask how dry is your wood? any epa stove needs good dry wood.

 

[wberry85]

My wood is cut and split and seasoned for at least 1 year, sometimes 2. I do not cover it but I bring the wood inside for about a month prior to burning. I have not measured the moisture but the wood is very dry as far as I can tell.

Your EPA comment gets to the root of my questioning. I am no stove engineer, but I am suspicious of these EPA regulations and their interest in maintaining the best possible product. If these features are truly enhancing my stove so that I am getting the most possible heat out of my stove, then so be it, but I am not going cold because the EPA is going to dictate the way I burn wood in my home because of their proposed regulations on the industry. I understand they have been attacking the wood burners for some time now and making changes to stoves and I am not a fan of that.

I have spoken with my chimney sweep and he is in favor of the modifications and agrees I will see more heat out of the stove. I wanted to get some second opinions before modifying such an expensive stove beyond repair, but I have not been satisfied with the stoves ability to heat my home. It is rated for a home my size and it is not performing as I need it to so I am looking for ways to improve it rather than buying a whole new stove. Having a stove that cant burn overnight is useless in my opinion.

 

[begreen]

Having a stove that cant burn overnight is useless in my opinion.

Wait, this is a separate issue. What is the stove top temp with a good fire? Are you getting good secondary burn?

This insert only has a 1.6 cu ft firebox. It will be good for about a 5-8 hr burn depending on the wood burned, size of wood load and how hot the stove top is. It really sounds like what you want is a 2.5-3 cu ft firebox.

PS: Did you read the threads provided in the first reply?

 

[edyit]

begreen is correct, you have a stove with a smallish sized firebox, to get a longer burn (overnight) you'll want 2.5 cubic feet or bigger

 

[bholler]

Your EPA comment gets to the root of my questioning. I am no stove engineer, but I am suspicious of these EPA regulations and their interest in maintaining the best possible product. If these features are truly enhancing my stove so that I am getting the most possible heat out of my stove, then so be it, but I am not going cold because the EPA is going to dictate the way I burn wood in my home because of their proposed regulations on the industry. I understand they have been attacking the wood burners for some time now and making changes to stoves and I am not a fan of that.

Well I work on stoves and chimneys all day long and I can tell you that without a doubt the epa compliant stoves burn much cleaner. When burnt correctly with good fuel they burn very clean. I also switched from a pre epa stove which was a vary good stove (a cawley lemay 600) to a modern stove with roughly the same size firebox (A regency 3100) and I can tell you it puts out allot more heat from the same amount of wood. The epa regs are not attacking wood burners they are making better stoves which benefits wood burners.

If your sweep is on board with what you are planning find a new sweep who will teach you how to use your stove properly and not go along with hacking up a good stove. And btw your sweep should know that you don't have to cut the tubes out they are easily removable for proper cleaning which he should be doing.

 

[wberry85]

Ah no I'm sorry, I did not see those. I am reading them now.

It could be this stove is just underpowered. This was a wedding gift from my parents and apparently the person at the store had told them this was the right stove based on my house square footage. They did not have any prior wood stove experience. Sounds like they have have just not bought enough stove. The stove does an ok job during the day when we are feeding it but it just cant go all night long.

I dont believe replacing the stove is an option. Its a gift and I would feel bad, but also would be very costly to replace and my wife is already pushing me to buy propane ($$$) because she is tired of starting a new fire in the morning in a 45* house.

 

[wberry85]

Well I work on stoves and chimneys all day long and I can tell you that without a doubt the epa compliant stoves burn much cleaner. When burnt correctly with good fuel they burn very clean. I also switched from a pre epa stove which was a vary good stove (a cawley lemay 600) to a modern stove with roughly the same size firebox (A regency 3100) and I can tell you it puts out allot more heat from the same amount of wood. The epa regs are not attacking wood burners they are making better stoves which benefits wood burners.

If your sweep is on board with what you are planning find a new sweep who will teach you how to use your stove properly and not go along with hacking up a good stove. And btw your sweep should know that you don't have to cut the tubes out they are easily removable for proper cleaning which he should be doing.

He is a kid...been doing this around 8 years he said. Neither he nor I could find a way to remove the tubes. We looked over the manual and there was nothing about it that I could find. If the tubes were removable I wouldnt be hacking anything....I would simply remove the tubes and be able to test both ways. Sadly I cannot remove the tubes as far as I know and so if I chose to modify the stove it would be a permanent thing that I am not very excited about.

 

[edyit]

if you dont want to replace the stove since it was a gift, and you have another form of heat, then you could use the stove during the day when you are able to feed it and your other source at night when you sleep so its not 45F when you wake up.

 

[bholler]

He is a kid...been doing this around 8 years he said.

Well he is not doing his job if he does not know how to remove them they should be removed so you can pull the baffle and clean and inspect everything. And evry regency manual I have read has given instructions on how to remove the tubes and baffle.

Sadly I cannot remove the tubes as far as I know

Yes you can take a pair of vice grips clamp it onto the tube and smack it with a hammer to the left they will pop right out.


Can you walk us through your burning procedure? how you load the stove with how much wood and when you start to shut the air down. Also can you explain the chimney setup you are using this stove on

 

[bholler]

(broken link removed to http://www.regency-fire.com/Files/Manuals/I3100-908-332.aspx)

Look at page 11

 

[wberry85]

Well he is not doing his job if he does not know how to remove them they should be removed so you can pull the baffle and clean and inspect everything. And evry regency manual I have read has given instructions on how to remove the tubes and baffle.


Yes you can take a pair of vice grips clamp it onto the tube and smack it with a hammer to the left they will pop right out.


Can you walk us through your burning procedure? how you load the stove with how much wood and when you start to shut the air down. Also can you explain the chimney setup you are using this stove on

Sure. Before we go to bed the fire has been going and it is nice and hot. I can normally fit 3 logs. 1 in the front, 1 in the back, and 1 in the middle of those two on the top. I close it up and shut the damper closed. That is how I was instructed to use it when trying to make the logs last for an all night burn. I am open to any feedback on that process of course.

 

[wberry85]

(broken link removed to http://www.regency-fire.com/Files/Manuals/I3100-908-332.aspx)

Look at page 11

Thank you for this...at least now I will definitely not have to do any cutting!

 

[bholler]

well to start Iwould say split smaller so you can fit more wood in there. You stove is very small so I would have a few larger splits then fill in around them with smaller ones till the firebox is packed full. Do you have a stove top thermometer or a pipe thermometer? What chimney is this going into what size is it how tall is it ect.

 

[bholler]

Thank you for this...at least now I will definitely not have to do any cutting!

It will make less heat without the baffle and tubes without question.

 

[wberry85]

well to start Iwould say split smaller so you can fit more wood in there. You stove is very small so I would have a few larger splits then fill in around them with smaller ones till the firebox is packed full. Do you have a stove top thermometer or a pipe thermometer? What chimney is this going into what size is it how tall is it ect.

I have an IR thermometer I use to gauge the temp. The pipe comes out the rear of the stove and goes into a chimney. 6" pipe. Chimney is terra cotta blocks with a stainless pipe running up to the top where it has a mesh cap. The chimney extends 2 stories tall and about 6' over the roof.

 

[bholler]

I have an IR thermometer I use to gauge the temp. The pipe comes out the rear of the stove and goes into a chimney. 6" pipe. Chimney is terra cotta blocks with a stainless pipe running up to the top where it has a mesh cap. The chimney extends 2 stories tall and about 6' over the roof.

Ok the setup sounds pretty good for starters. But honestly if you are trying to heat a 2 story house with that little stove you are going to be disappointed no matter what you do. It just is not big enough. What temp do you run your pipe up to before you start to shut down the air? Do you see jets of flame coming out of the holes in those tubes? And does your glass stay clean?

 

[wberry85]

Ok the setup sounds pretty good for starters. But honestly if you are trying to heat a 2 story house with that little stove you are going to be disappointed no matter what you do. It just is not big enough. What temp do you run your pipe up to before you start to shut down the air? Do you see jets of flame coming out of the holes in those tubes? And does your glass stay clean?

Glass is clean and fire shooting out the holes yes. I basically just have the thing running on max all day until I go to bed when I have to shut the damper.

 

[begreen]

Ah no I'm sorry, I did not see those. I am reading them now.

It could be this stove is just underpowered. This was a wedding gift from my parents and apparently the person at the store had told them this was the right stove based on my house square footage. They did not have any prior wood stove experience. Sounds like they have have just not bought enough stove. The stove does an ok job during the day when we are feeding it but it just cant go all night long.

I dont believe replacing the stove is an option. Its a gift and I would feel bad, but also would be very costly to replace and my wife is already pushing me to buy propane ($$$) because she is tired of starting a new fire in the morning in a 45* house.

45º in North GA right now or was this last winter? That sounds like a lot of heat loss. How large is the house and how well insulated and sealed is it? That info will help us understand the issue better. My guess is that if the insert is in decent condition it could sell for somewhere around $700-900. You can get a good, new 3 cu ft stove for that price.

 

[wberry85]

Last winter. Probably in the teens at night. If we go to bed at 9 and wake up around 5 or 6 I am guessing the fire was out around 1 so you are looking at around a 15 degree loss over 5 hours so 3 degress per hour. Is that abnormal?

 

[begreen]

That is quicker than our house, but we rarely get into the teens. But we also keep the house warmer than 60F. Now is peak season for selling stoves. If you can sell the insert for $800 then I would and replace it with an Englander 30NC or Englander SSW02 from Home Depot. That will doulbe the firebox capacity giving you an 8-12 hr burn. This would be cheaper than buying and installing a new propane stove assuming you have a good stock of thoroughly dry wood.

How large is the house? One or two stories?