Moe All Nighter

[Jay106n]

I bought a house this winter with a wood stove in the basement, it says Moe All Nighter. Anybody have any information about this stove, what its BTU rating is and what the max square footage is? How old do you think it is? The house is 25 years old. How efficient is it? Should I keep it or get something else? It has a blower, but it does not work. Thanks.

This is an image from google of what it looks like: (broken image removed)

 

[coaly]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/all-nighter-stove-co/

There was a new blower on eBay last week. Grab it quick if you can't fix yours. Never saw one on there before.
They used heating capacity in square feet back then. No BTU ratings, but you can figure it out with square inch of heating surface at any given temperature.

Searching the word All-nighter (or Morande) in the Fisher Forum will give you results from the most expensive patent infringement case in stove history.

4 days to go, no bids $110 starting bid. That's good if you need one.
(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Nighter-Moe-Stove-Woodstove-blower-fan-assembly-new-/251897616612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa64498e4)

 

[Jags]

Built out of spare parts from a tank. Efficient? No, not compared to the current market of stoves. Should you replace it? Depends on what your future intent is. That stove is a very reliable beast of a heating machine, but it is also a hungry beast. If you plan on the stove being a backup heater during a power outage...or to take the bite out of the -10F days it will do the job well. 24/7 burning? You might want to consider an upgrade.

To break it down simply - it is not an efficient burner when compared to the EPA models out there. There are many of these things still in use, but when you take into consideration that simply moving to a different style of stove could save you upwards of 40% in wood consumption ya gotta stop and weigh your options.

This isn't even taking into account the cleaner burn of the newer stoves.

It would be akin to comparing a 1970 carburetor engine to the new fuel injected models.

Think about your intent for the stove and go from there.

 

[coaly]

Should I keep it or get something else?

That's a question that involves a lot of factors. Like Jags mentioned, it's intended use. If this stove is connected to an older 8 inch masonry chimney, the chimney would have to be lined with a 6 inch insulated liner for a new stove. (this one would benefit from that too) Your other post is a wood question stating you just bought 3 cords in the round. Do you have enough room to store enough wood to season it a couple years for a new stove? Willing to buy 2 or 3 years ahead with room to store it? They require dryer wood. Split and dried over the summer is fine for this stove, maybe not a newer stove depending on wood. There's more factors than just efficiency of the stove itself.

 

[Jay106n]

Thanks for your replies. I have been burning 24/7 since the day I moved in. The moe heats the basement beautifully 70-75, there is a air grate that leads to the living area above that allows warm air to rise, but doesn't seem to do much more than warm the floorboards. The rest of the warm air rises to the 2nd floor, leaving the 1st floor chilly...

I bought dry wood for this past winter, now I am stocking up for next winter. I have land for wood storage, space is not an issue.

There is a fireplace on the 1st floor, which I have not yet used. I have been contemplating whether I should buy an insert for 1st floor as primary and keep the moe for backup.

I also work very long hours and often am away from home for 12 - 16 hours at a time. I stock the moe before I leave and I come home to just a few small coals left, just enough to throw some kindle on and get it fired up again. Not sure if that is a good or bad burn time, i've never had anything to compare.

 

[Jags]

Your burn times in the Moe sounds about right.
Sounds like an insert on the first floor might just be the ticket.

 

[coaly]

If this is your first burning experience, you're doing good! That's the normal burn for most well built stoves of that era, so you can expect that kind of performance from most any of them as long as you're comparing the same firebox size. Getting heat to rise above the stove is the right thing to do, but make sure the cooling air has a way to drop back down to be recirculated. Best at the other end of building away from stove. That may help with circulation on the first floor. An insert or stove in front of hearth would be best for that level. The All-nighter was built more for hearth installation with the very short legs to get under the fireplace opening. They use an insulated pad under the bottom brick, possibly containing asbestos. Other stoves had legs 6 inches or longer to raise the bottom from floor requiring less floor protection.

The size of your chimney flue makes a huge difference in the heat output of any stove. It also stays much cleaner when it's the right size and insulated burning the way you do. The object is to keep the flue gasses above 250* all the way to the top to prevent water vapor from combustion from condensing and allowing smoke particles to stick. A larger diameter flue allows the exhaust gasses to expand and cool, and move slower. So you want to make sure the chimney flue diameter inside is the same size as stove outlet. The stove will be able to heat more square area with more heat inside the building than needed up the chimney. Making the blower work will also even out the heat in the basement. If your floor plan allows the rising heat above stove to rise up nearby stairs, try to get the heat to rise up to the first floor away from the stairs. This will force the air to circulate through the first floor before it can rise up to the next level.

Putting the heat in the basement is fine (and keeps the wood mess down there) if the walls are insulated as well. If they are block walls contacting soil, you need about 1/3 more BTU to heat that area. So insulating the basement walls allows a lot more heat upstairs.

Any Insert is going to require an insulated liner in the existing chimney, so you may want to do everything you can to increase BTU and circulation before going the expense of a second heat source. Depends on the entire square footage you're heating. 3000 sf is all you can expect from the Moe IF it's the Big Moe that measures 41 1/2" overall length with ash shelf.

Burning 24/7, I've found the best way to handle ash without leaving the stove go out is removing the ash that burns down in the front close to air intake each day and rake the charcoal and glowing coals along with some ash ahead to kindle the next fire on.

 

[royrizzle]

Looks like you have a " Big Moe " model made by " All Nighter Stove Works, Inc " Glastonbury , Conn . " Big Moe " takes 28 " wood straight in . Heats 22, 500 cu. ft. or 3000 sq. ft. Made around 1980 . I use one for the coldest months here in Wisconsin . Then replace it with a smaller stove in the spring . I love it , takes some big wood , and heats a lot better with a blower . I purchased a blower from a old " All Nighter " dealer in Mass. He's under Western Massachusetts Craigslist , for $120 . With cord and pipe included . Produces more CFM than the original blowers. Well worth it. I'd keep the stove even if you plan on replacing it , or whatever . To some people it's simply a collectors item .

 

[Jay106n]

Looks like you have a " Big Moe " model made by " All Nighter Stove Works, Inc " Glastonbury , Conn . " Big Moe " takes 28 " wood straight in . Heats 22, 500 cu. ft. or 3000 sq. ft. Made around 1980 . I use one for the coldest months here in Wisconsin . Then replace it with a smaller stove in the spring . I love it , takes some big wood , and heats a lot better with a blower . I purchased a blower from a old " All Nighter " dealer in Mass. He's under Western Massachusetts Craigslist , for $120 . With cord and pipe included . Produces more CFM than the original blowers. Well worth it. I'd keep the stove even if you plan on replacing it , or whatever . To some people it's simply a collectors item .

If a big moe fits 28 inch logs, then this is definitely not one. I just measured and it can comfortably fit about 22 inches. So my guess would be the Mid Moe. I saw that ad for the blower as well. I might have to take the offer.

 

[Jay106n]

If this is your first burning experience, you're doing good! That's the normal burn for most well built stoves of that era, so you can expect that kind of performance from most any of them as long as you're comparing the same firebox size. Getting heat to rise above the stove is the right thing to do, but make sure the cooling air has a way to drop back down to be recirculated. Best at the other end of building away from stove. That may help with circulation on the first floor. An insert or stove in front of hearth would be best for that level. The All-nighter was built more for hearth installation with the very short legs to get under the fireplace opening. They use an insulated pad under the bottom brick, possibly containing asbestos. Other stoves had legs 6 inches or longer to raise the bottom from floor requiring less floor protection.

The size of your chimney flue makes a huge difference in the heat output of any stove. It also stays much cleaner when it's the right size and insulated burning the way you do. The object is to keep the flue gasses above 250* all the way to the top to prevent water vapor from combustion from condensing and allowing smoke particles to stick. A larger diameter flue allows the exhaust gasses to expand and cool, and move slower. So you want to make sure the chimney flue diameter inside is the same size as stove outlet. The stove will be able to heat more square area with more heat inside the building than needed up the chimney. Making the blower work will also even out the heat in the basement. If your floor plan allows the rising heat above stove to rise up nearby stairs, try to get the heat to rise up to the first floor away from the stairs. This will force the air to circulate through the first floor before it can rise up to the next level.

Putting the heat in the basement is fine (and keeps the wood mess down there) if the walls are insulated as well. If they are block walls contacting soil, you need about 1/3 more BTU to heat that area. So insulating the basement walls allows a lot more heat upstairs.

Any Insert is going to require an insulated liner in the existing chimney, so you may want to do everything you can to increase BTU and circulation before going the expense of a second heat source. Depends on the entire square footage you're heating. 3000 sf is all you can expect from the Moe IF it's the Big Moe that measures 41 1/2" overall length with ash shelf.

Burning 24/7, I've found the best way to handle ash without leaving the stove go out is removing the ash that burns down in the front close to air intake each day and rake the charcoal and glowing coals along with some ash ahead to kindle the next fire on.

View attachment 156683 View attachment 156684

Thanks Coaly. I keep the basement door open which allows more air to rise, plus a return at the same time on the floorboard level. My basement is not very well insulated, which I plan to improve upon this summer. The house is approx 2400 sq. ft. not including the basement.

 

[royrizzle]

Oh yeah Mid - Moe , 21 and half inch width top plate . Great stove too . That's how I got my start with '' All Nighter '' . Get ahold of Rick , honest and nice guy.

 

[bholler]

I like the ad coaly it shows that over staing burn times has been around a long time although 24 hours out of one of them is a massive exaggeration allot worse than anything now. But yeah i agree with coaly and jags. For what they are they are pretty good they are not very efficient but they are tanks and with good wood and burning practices they can be burnt pretty well and you can keep the chimney fairly clean. And yes insulating the basement will make a big difference

 

[BrotherBart]

I like the ad coaly it shows that over staing burn times has been around a long time although 24 hours out of one of them is a massive exaggeration allot worse than anything now.

Notice they didn't say how many times you had to load it in that 24 hours.

 

[Jay106n]

I can get average burns around 12-16 hours, but I can get coals 24 hours later that will reignite just by adding wood. I guess that is what they meant by 24 hr burn haha

 

[bholler]

I can get average burns around 12-16 hours, but I can get coals 24 hours later that will reignite just by adding wood. I guess that is what they meant by 24 hr burn haha

What are you calling a burn? And how far are you shutting it down? I have never heard of any one getting anywhere near that long unless they are just smouldering the whole time.

 

[Jay106n]

What are you calling a burn? And how far are you shutting it down? I have never heard of any one getting anywhere near that long unless they are just smouldering the whole time.

When I get home from work 12-16 hours later, its to the all coal stage, red hot. I just give it a quick rake, reload a new load, and its good to go. There is no pipe damper, the air controls at the front are what I use. I turn each a one half turn counter clockwise open.

 

[coaly]

I can get average burns around 12-16 hours, but I can get coals 24 hours later that will reignite just by adding wood. I guess that is what they meant by 24 hr burn haha

That's the technical definition of the length of a burn. "Relighting without a match".

When burning 24/7, I get a glowing coal pile built up in the rear of the deep narrow stoves. (I tested all the Fisher models except Insert, XL and TF-88 on the same insulated chimney) If I don't rake it ahead and start it in the morning, I can let it go and rake ahead 4 or 5 in the afternoon and have plenty to start it. (Loaded at 10 PM = 19 hours) I never pushed it farther since we need heat and usually cook supper on it. That was in a Mama Bear, I believe the same size as yours. The Papa Bear is large enough to start at about 24 hours as well. That's not smoldering. It's a burn hot enough to heat 1880 sf all night and if it's warm the next day, I can let it go. If starting from a cold ash bed, it wouldn't do that. 10 PM to about Noon the next day was it for the Mama. Papa was about 3 PM do or die time. Loading on a bed of coals is a different story. The build up of coals gets so deep I had to open up the air and rake it around to burn it down. Otherwise I would have enough to start it 24 hours later, not throwing any measurable heat of course. It only takes a glowie the size of a dime. It's my only heat source too. That makes a difference in how many coals you gain after burning hard for 3 or 4 days straight. They probably go by the length of burn loading on a good glowing coal pile... That can be a real world test at times, but not the norm for here.

The difference in identifying the exact model from a picture is the space around the door. Using another stove picture isn't the same as your actual stove. The two larger models used the same door with two air intakes. (A door with one intake is obviously the smallest stove of the three. They even copied that aspect of Fisher) The middle size stove that copied the Mama Bear size (Mid) will have a narrow face plate showing along side the door. The larger Big Moe is wider with the same door, showing more face plate as in your picture at top. Here's the difference shown below with the smaller stove on left.

That is how you can tell one from another in a picture. Notice the hinge plates are welded closer to the edge on the narrow stove. A close look at the step top and measuring it on your screen shows the right picture taken farther away is still the same size. If the stove were the same size it would measure much smaller. If you go by depth perception, notice the right picture is farther away. The step top looks lower since it is longer and the vents are farther apart.

 

[bholler]

Ok if you use that definition i can see that i can easily relight from coals at 18 to 20 hours. I consider burn time the amount of time the stove is putting out good useable heat maybe i am wrong though

 

[Jags]

Ok if you use that definition i can see that i can easily relight from coals at 18 to 20 hours. I consider burn time the amount of time the stove is putting out good useable heat maybe i am wrong though

This has been a debate with no certain answer since man was living in caves.

Grog: FIRE!
Scrog: No Fire.
Grog: YES - See (throws a handful of leaves on the coals, which ignites).

 

[coaly]

Fred: FIRE !
Barney: No Fire.
Mr. Slate: Get back to work or you're BOTH fired.

(yes, Barney was actually Fred's boss in one episode. Barney might have been smarter, but I'll side with Fred.)