Montpelier vermont castings insert

[Wildman_fab]

We are looking to buy one of these inserts and this thread has been very informative!
I have found that alot of the problems being described here I have found with the Lopi insert my folks have, smoke, draft, fan noise etc.

 

[YZF1R]

whitefang, I just re-read your post on the smoke. If I get it correctly, you were trying to re-light a fire that had gone pretty much out and not a lot of coals left, or maybe not the best of dry wood. If so, yes, it will smolder something fierce until a flame is ignited. There is so much smoke for the little bit of draft that yes smoke will come out of the door if opened. Like you said, it got much better once you lit some paper in there to get flame. Also, same thing when starting a new fire. You want to establish a good flame quickly. Hence the top down starting method you may have seen posts about. However you start or get a fire going, you need to first make a good guess as to how much kindling or whatever you use to get the flames going quickly and strongly will be enough. This is part of the learning curve you will develop as you get used to your insert, your wood, etc.

Steve

 

[daryl]

whitefang, I just re-read your post on the smoke. If I get it correctly, you were trying to re-light a fire that had gone pretty much out and not a lot of coals left, or maybe not the best of dry wood. If so, yes, it will smolder something fierce until a flame is ignited. There is so much smoke for the little bit of draft that yes smoke will come out of the door if opened. Like you said, it got much better once you lit some paper in there to get flame. Also, same thing when starting a new fire. You want to establish a good flame quickly. Hence the top down starting method you may have seen posts about. However you start or get a fire going, you need to first make a good guess as to how much kindling or whatever you use to get the flames going quickly and strongly will be enough. This is part of the learning curve you will develop as you get used to your insert, your wood, etc.

Steve

Through the years I have been on a hundred of these calls,smoke rolls out door,no draft,stove does not heat up.I show up at their door with a bag of my own wood.And proceed too light a fire. In no more then 45 minutes I can almost always get the stove hotter then they have ever seen it,drafting good and no smoke rolling out door just by useing good wood and starting techniecs.There is a learning curve for everything and once learned it becomes second nature.So use good dry wood and open up the air and let it rip.

 

[YZF1R]

Daryl, that is an excellent way to handle those calls! I never would have thought to simply arrive at their door with an armload of proper wood. whitefang, please understand that I (and I'm sure Daryl) are not automatically accusing you of burning semi-seasoned wood, it just happens to be a very common problem.

Steve

 

[Fod01]

Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small? I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly. I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.

 

[canboy]

WHITEFANG: Here are a couple of additional thoughts:

FAN: Since your dealer doesn't know what he is doing...suggest you remove the two screws that hold the fan in place, disconnect the two wires to the thermostat and connect them together, thereby passing the thermostat. If the fan works, you now know the problem is the thermosat. If the fan doesn't work it is somewhere in the fan (or maybe the dealer unplugged the fan from the wall).

SMOKE: All suggestions provided about dry wood, waiting until the fire settles are good. Also since you said the heat had come on in your house, if you have central air, there is the potential that the air supply is not balanced with the return in that room. Turn off the central air and check your stove draft again.

 

[whitefang]

[/quote]Through the years I have been on a hundred of these calls,smoke rolls out door,no draft,stove does not heat up.I show up at their door with a bag of my own wood.And proceed too light a fire. In no more then 45 minutes I can almost always get the stove hotter then they have ever seen it,drafting good and no smoke rolling out door just by useing good wood and starting techniecs.There is a learning curve for everything and once learned it becomes second nature.So use good dry wood and open up the air and let it rip.[/quote]
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Thanks for the advice everyone, but I'm not a newbie at this and have been lighting lots of fires for a long time and my wood supply is good. In this case, with the new Montpelier insert, I had previously started several fires without incident. This time around though there was a bad combination of things, mostly - I think - the weather and air temps inside and out. Simply getting a "starter fire" going on the top of my fuel supply and warming/priming the flue seemed to do the trick. The reason I was writing about this was because I was concerned that this is the first time this has happened to me and it was immediately after the dealer/technician had left and fiddled with the fan mechanism. Hopefully the first time will be the last time this happens but I'll repost and let you know how things go since the cold weather is now arriving!

 

[whitefang]

Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small? I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly. I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.

------
I'm not sure if the previous WinterWarm was large or small, but it seemed large since we had lots of room to load it up with wood. That old model had a catalytic converter and even though I've read lots of stories where people have had issues with them, it always seemed to work OK for us. Probably because my wife is such a good technician and replaced the catalytic element herself (yea!) over time plus kept the rest of it in tip top shape (yea again!). I have to say though, the fan on the old beast was loud and by comparison, the Montpelier insert was a LOT quieter, at least the first time I got to witness it working. I can also tell you that the Montpelier most definitely throws the heat out better too. The room it is in is 13'x23' and it gets nice and toasty in there, even without the fan going if the fire has burned long enough. The only drawback I see is the lack of a good battery backup for the fan mechanism for those ice storms that kill the power. We don't have a generator and it would be nice if someone knew of a simple battery supplied fan mechanism to keep the air flow and fan going at even a low RPM. We generally have one or two such storms and power-outs per season and the insert would be worth it's weight as a backup heater for the house if the fan still worked.

The only reason we replaced the WinterWarm was that it was old, the catalytic converter was ready for replacement (again), we wanted to try and take advantage of the tax credit on the new insert while we could, and we got a good price for the old one selling it used to a knowledgeable person who wanted it.

 

[seacarlson]

My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input. I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove. However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered! Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks! Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it. After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference! The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go! WAY EASIER... and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable. Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all. I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so. Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all! Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way. Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys

 

[allhandsworking]

My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input. I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove. However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered! Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks! Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it. After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference! The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go! WAY EASIER... and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable. Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all. I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so. Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all! Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way. Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys

I can see this working. I usually just put two short splits north south then stack splits across them.

 

[begreen]

That's all I do on our stove. Easy starts by creating a tunnel for the starting air to get under the fire from the front of the stove. 2x4 cut off scraps work good for this too. Space them about 6-8" apart.

 

[allhandsworking]

My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input. I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove. However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered! Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks! Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it. After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference! The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go! WAY EASIER... and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable. Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all. I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so. Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all! Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way. Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys

I can see this working. I usually just put two short splits north south then stack splits across them.

Get some seasoned wood that is under 25% miosture and that baby will shoot to the moon! dont use that rack if you have good seasoned wood!

 

[whitefang]

As a (hopefully) final followup, my dealer replaced the entire fan/blower unit. According to them there was a faulty wire inside. The comment on pulling it out and directly connecting the fan wires by bypassing the thermoset switch was a good way to test whether or not the fan itself was working (it wasn't). Have had several fires with the new fan unit and so far all is well. No more issues with smoke build up, fires are burning clean, glass is staying pretty much clear, and our room is staying warm. I'm thinking you can chalk up one more happy Montpelier owner for now.

 

[jfournier]

I ordered a montpelier insert back in July of '08 and just found this site/thread, but I too had a lot of the problems detailed here...I wasn't terribly prepared last winter as far as my wood supply, so I ended up burning a lot of wood green, which meant I was very lucky just to keep the house around 60 with the stove going, burning through a lot of wood. I eventually figured out that building the log cabin style stack of wood in the firebox resulted in the most heat output, but luckily now I have nicely seasoned wood and the stove is now able to get my house up over 70 degrees in a couple of hours. I think it's a fussy stove, but given my limitations in choice (must go in fireplace, and look nice for the wife), it seemed the montpelier was the best choice.

One question I have is, why is the whole firebox, save the top, insulated? I can understand insulating the fan and stuff underneath, but why keep the rest of the cast iron shell insulated? Does the firebox really get that hot?

 

[allhandsworking]

I ordered a montpelier insert back in July of '08 and just found this site/thread, but I too had a lot of the problems detailed here...I wasn't terribly prepared last winter as far as my wood supply, so I ended up burning a lot of wood green, which meant I was very lucky just to keep the house around 60 with the stove going, burning through a lot of wood. I eventually figured out that building the log cabin style stack of wood in the firebox resulted in the most heat output, but luckily now I have nicely seasoned wood and the stove is now able to get my house up over 70 degrees in a couple of hours. I think it's a fussy stove, but given my limitations in choice (must go in fireplace, and look nice for the wife), it seemed the montpelier was the best choice.

One question I have is, why is the whole firebox, save the top, insulated? I can understand insulating the fan and stuff underneath, but why keep the rest of the cast iron shell insulated? Does the firebox really get that hot?

All EPA stoves/inserts will struggle with green or under seasoned wood! Its not just a VC trait check out the Jotul insert threads and you will read about newbies swearing they have seasoned wood because that is what the wood guy told them! With seasoned wood you will have no black staining and loads more heat! I have properly seasoned wood this year and turn may air intake all the way to the right(shut) and she still burn with awesome secondary flames! The fire box is insulated to bring temp inside the fire box up to insure total burn. The top is not insulated so the blower channels will carry that heat out into the room! Im not an expert but this is the layman explanation.

 

[allhandsworking]

Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small? I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly. I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.

------
I'm not sure if the previous WinterWarm was large or small, but it seemed large since we had lots of room to load it up with wood. That old model had a catalytic converter and even though I've read lots of stories where people have had issues with them, it always seemed to work OK for us. Probably because my wife is such a good technician and replaced the catalytic element herself (yea!) over time plus kept the rest of it in tip top shape (yea again!). I have to say though, the fan on the old beast was loud and by comparison, the Montpelier insert was a LOT quieter, at least the first time I got to witness it working. I can also tell you that the Montpelier most definitely throws the heat out better too. The room it is in is 13'x23' and it gets nice and toasty in there, even without the fan going if the fire has burned long enough. The only drawback I see is the lack of a good battery backup for the fan mechanism for those ice storms that kill the power. We don't have a generator and it would be nice if someone knew of a simple battery supplied fan mechanism to keep the air flow and fan going at even a low RPM. We generally have one or two such storms and power-outs per season and the insert would be worth it's weight as a backup heater for the house if the fan still worked.

The only reason we replaced the WinterWarm was that it was old, the catalytic converter was ready for replacement (again), we wanted to try and take advantage of the tax credit on the new insert while we could, and we got a good price for the old one selling it used to a knowledgeable person who wanted it.

Your install looks real tight but when its really cold out and you loss power just remove the surround you will get more radiant heat it works I tried it. I even have room to put a pot of water or a Roast beef hero on garlic bread wrapped in foal.

 

[Acadia]

Anyone have any experience with (or know someone who does) the 3" Extension kit for the Montpelier insert? I'm just about to go with the Montpelier insert, have to use an extension to fit into our fireplace. -- our old brick fireplace just too small for flush install so need to go with the VC extension kit which projects the firebox 3" out. Also raising the unit (& hearth) 3" to keep the hearth from protruding too far into the room (saves 2"). I just finished reading through this entire thread and the information from everyone has been really helpful - nervous at first about the Montpelier but it seems that most everyone's problems have been working out through trial & error as well as each other's helpful posts. So now I just wonder whether the 3" extension will reveal more issues...

 

[Fod01]

I haven't read that anyone this board has used the extension. Nice option though. Nice stove as well.

Perhaps opening a new topic would give better visibility to the board's many dealers/ installers.
Good luck - Gabe

 

[Acadia]

Thanks - will open new thread/topic

 

[Lynn0101]

The suggestions on how to raise the wood (north/south splits) sounds good! I am still a beginner when it comes to using a wood stove and find it very tricky keeping the flames 'going'... I bought my Montpelier insert in 2008 and had only an "OK" experience with it but this Fall, using the left over wood,Ash, from last year, I had a really nice fire going. Unfortunately that wood is now used up. I purchased 3 cords of mixed, seasoned hard wood and have lugged a bunch of it into my enclosed porch and cellar to enable it to dry more. I do know one important thing to keep in mind with this insert, the splits need to be thinner than what is normally delivered regular wood stove. I am now busy pricing manual log splitters so I can split my split logs down to a smaller diameter. I don't have the strength to swing an ax to cut them down more so am trying to come up with a different method. Any suggestions on how to manage the Montpelier would be much appreciated!

 

[jfournier]

Yeah I too have found that you have to split everything down small in order to get any heat out of the thing if the wood isn't 2+ years seasoned...I had some really dry wood left and had a wonderful fire that warmed the house nicely, but using oak at about 20% moisture content and even slightly lower, I can't get much heat unless the splits are really small.

But I'm getting better at running the thing; I'm able to get the firebox and door to warm up fairly quickly, and have found that having a thermometer on the top arch of the door at at least 300 degrees F provides decent heat, and have only ever got it up to 400. It's usually around 350 with a load of wood in and the secondaries going with the air control around 1/4 open to fully closed. Has anyone else found different results with regards to temperature on top of the door?

 

[Wildman_fab]

I haven't put the thermometer on the stove yet (couldn't figure out where to put it HA! ) But I find that it produces best with a serious bed of coals before putting the 'regular sized wood' in there. It takes some time to build the bed up that's for sure! I am burning stuff that is mixed, 2 years seasoned, 1 year and even the occasional green stick. I have been leaving the damper open exactly straight out. If its closed any more it I find that the fire dies down too much and the fan kicks off. At least I hope thats whats happening, my fan has been coming off and on recently. What temp does the fan kick on?

 

[cheapheatnow]

New to this forum...learning some great tips though. 2nd heating season and I'm looking to maximize. I noticed quite a bit of dust clogging the intake on the fan housing...also the fan switch sits on top of the left side of the fan intake...looks to me like that would restrict airflow. All clean now. Draft not a problem in this house. So I'm trying to tighten things up around doors and windows and balance between draft and insulation. But based on what I've learned here I think I'll look to run hotter in general to minimize soot build up on the glass. Gathered, cut, stacked and seasoned 4 cord this year...but now I wish I had made the splits smaller based on the experience of other posts. In general I like the unit. Had a great dealer that did a first class install.

 

[chuckda4th]

I found this site to be absolutely amazing when making my decision on the VC Montpelier, as well as in my first week of use (Installed a week ago), so I thought I'd throw out there my first impressions.

First off, absolutely LOVE the unit so far (although tonight's the first night I'm in the 30s). I have a split level with my stairway in the room with the fireplace, and my entire house is WARMER than when I had the furnace on. I have central air and heat with a vent located on one side of the fireplace, and the return located on the other side, so I turn on my AC fan all night long when sleeping and running the VC. Although the low has only been in the 40s both nights I've used it all night long, I woke up with the house and my bedroom warmer than when I was solely using my oil furnace, which was running about 50minutes each of the prior nights by the time I woke up. I checked my thermostat's "usage" and the heater hadn't gone on once either night I was burning.

I have found as others have said that it can be a bit tempermental to get lit, but my so far flawless plan is as follows:
-2 short splits ~10" long in an upside-down V
-newspaper and kindling strewn both within and outside the V
-2 full length ~3" splits on top
-light the paper and move the latch on the door to the 6:00 position with it still open...close the door such that the latch in the 6:00 position doesn't let it close and the door actually stays open about .5".
-Let it sit for about 5min. Once everything is caught and hot, close the door properly
-Let it sit for another 5-10min and throw 2 nice size splits on top

The fan kicks in within about 45min using this method, and stays on pretty much for good after that. Speaking of the fan, mine does not rattle at all, and even at high, we can watch the TV located about 5' to the side of the fireplace with no problems (except for the extreme heat if you're within 3-4' of the fireplace).

As far as the door is concerned, I've seen no indication thus far that it is sagging (I think this was an issue with units made earlier). The only time I've had black build-up on the glass was when I was messing around with another method of getting the fire going. I put in too many logs too early and it clearly wasn't hot enough and the door was awful by the time the wood burnt. Every other time I've burnt after about 6 hours the wood has no shape left, and this time there were still clear pieces of wood in the bottom, so I'm chalking it up to my fault and would recommend making sure your fire is HOT before putting in too much wood. The next day I tried using a damp newspaper, which got some of the mess off, but not too much. I then re-read the posts I got the tip from, and tried dipping the damp newspaper in ash, which made a small paste as I wiped the glass door, and the black soot came off almost immediately. I was really surprised how great that worked.

As far as the smoke complaints I've seen, I've noticed if I open the door VERY slowly (about 15 seconds to open it to half way) I get no smoke whatsoever in the room. It's only when I rush it that I get smoke.

I do have very well seasoned wood, as I got multiple recommendations on who to order from. Only thing I've noticed so far is the rediculous amount of wood I've been going through. I only ordered a half-chord, and I'm probably 1/6 of the way through it after only one week. I'm thinking I better order a full cord soon before the guy I purchased from runs out, considering how great it's burning.

Also, I got the Georgian surround, which I hadn't seen any pictures of besides the horrible one in the brochure with the guy playing cards in front of it so you can barely see it. I had to get it due to the size of my fireplace's opening, and I do not regret it one bit.


I'm only one week in, but thus far the unit has more than exceeded my expectations, looks absolutely beautiful and I could not be happier.

 

[Fod01]

Nice review... clap clap clap