Moving air from the hot end of the house to the cold end of the house.

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BlueRidgeMark

Feeling the Heat
Oct 8, 2015
262
Virginia
My problem is that my house is poorly laid out, as it was built in stages. First a cabin was built, and the rest of the house was just kind of tacked on to the side of it without much thought going into it.

My woodstove is in the original part of the house where the kitchen & family room are, along with two bedrooms, and the living room where we spend most of our time is at the other end of the house. In between is the master bedroom (such as it is).

As a result, the living room was always much colder than the hot end of the house.

There is a long corridor between the original end of the house and the living room. For years, I had a 10" fan mounted in the corner of the doorway leading into the corridor, blowing warm air down towards the living room. I used aluminum flashing to build a sort of duct on the suction side of the fan to get air from near the ceiling, so I'd be blowing the hottest air.

This did make a noticeable difference. There was no question it was helping. It was noisy, though, and not doing enough. The living room still remained uncomfortably cold in severe weather, and we always had to keep the hot end of the house too hot, in order to have the cold end tolerable.

Well, I had the crazy idea of running a duct through the attic between the two ends of the house and using a blower of some kind to move air from the woodstove area to the living room.

Not knowing much about HVAC issues, I suggested this on another forum, and sparked almost a firestorm of, "That's not gonna work! No way! You'll lose all your heat in the duct! Fuggedaboudit!" Some of the naysayers were HVAC business owners, and techs, too. I don't recall anybody thinking it would work. So, I didn't do it. Money is never flowing freely around here, and it was looking like a $500 project, with the ductwork and intake & exhaust registers and all.

Well, I needed to so something, so I finally did it anyway. I bought a 3-speed furnace blower for $65 on Craigslist, and some 14" & 10" insulated flexible duct, 2 10" elbows, a 14" elbow, and a 14" coupler. I also got some OSB and a bit of insulated wrap for the elbows.

I built an air box for the blower using the OSB. Someday I'll probably invest in a box & pan brake and build a proper metal box. I did cheap out on the intake and exhaust - I just cut holes in the ceiling and mounted the elbows in the holes. No grilles, no boxes. It's ugly, but cheap. I figured if it worked, I could add them later, and if it didn't, I would be out less money.

I have the two 10" runs sucking hot air from the ceiling in front of the woodstove, and feeding into the air box. The blower moves the air into the 14" duct, which runs about 50 feet more down to the living room, where it dumps out about 1/3 of the way from the back of the room. The doorway into the corridor is at the front of the room.

Well, folks, we're going into our third winter with the duct installed, and I'm happy to say that the naysayers were completely, totally, drastically wrong. This works great! Far better than I had hoped, in fact. :)

My living room is now usually about 1-2 degrees warmer than near the woodstove.

Yep. Warmer.

I am using about a cord of wood less per year, as I no longer need to keep the "hot" end of the house uncomfortably hot. So, we are more comfortable at both ends of the house, and spending less effort to do it.

The corridor fan with its obnoxious noise is gone. In fact, I took it out the next day after I completed the duct system. It was already very clear that it was working well, and the duct system is far quieter.

The winter before I did this, we went away for a couple of weeks in February during some bitter cold. When we came back, it took about 3 full days for the cold end of the house to get up to a comfortable temperature.

The following year we went away again for a couple of weeks in February during some bitter cold. When we came back, it took about 6 hours for the cold end of the house to get comfortable.

I wish I had ignored the naysayers a lot sooner!


The really interesting thing is, the air coming out in the living room isn't noticeably warm, but it sure is carrying plenty of heat.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share this for the sake of anyone else who is facing this kind of problem, and has been told that duct work won't help.

Your results may vary, of course. I'm sure the layout of your house will make a difference, but don't listen to the naysayers. Find a way to give it a try.

:cool:
 
The problem is so few people have any experience with low delta, low velocity systems anymore. Those of us who worked with gravity flow furnaces in days gone by know the problem and the solution - but there are not many of us left.

Yes, of course it can be done. However, it requires a) very large ducts, b) good insulation for the supply ductwork, and c) some way to get return air. It appears you managed to get all three. Most houses simply do not have space for that much ductwork in a retrofit.
 
I did a similar project last winter. Got on line and i used a duct booster fan. Its quite, draws little electricity. I did a post of an air probe in the outlet side with the air coming out at 85 degrees. Warms the areas up nicely when needed.
The intake side is near the stove so the air that gets drawn in can get pretty warm
 
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I put in an 8” inline insulated duct and fan. Covered it up with a lot of insulation. I set it up to move cold air not warm but it does well. Moves the heat where I want it.
 
However, it requires a) very large ducts,


I think my 14" duct would probably count as "large", considering that the house is less than 1300 square feet.


b) good insulation for the supply ductwork,

Not really, in my case. Just what came on the insulated flex duct. I have an uninsulated coupler, and some Reflextix around the elbows. That's it.

and c) some way to get return air.

The hallway takes care of that.


Most houses simply do not have space for that much ductwork in a retrofit.

I have a low pitch roof, so my attic space is smaller than most houses. It's only about 30" to the underside of the peak.



I did a similar project last winter. Got on line and i used a duct booster fan. Its quite, draws little electricity. I did a post of an air probe in the outlet side with the air coming out at 85 degrees. Warms the areas up nicely when needed.
The intake side is near the stove so the air that gets drawn in can get pretty warm

Interesting. I don't think mine is that warm. I'll have to measure it.
 
Perhaps I misread your original post. I thought you were using both a 14" and a 10". I confess to being surprised that a single 14" duct would suffice.

The amount of insulation required is a function of the length of the run. In a 1300 sq. ft. house you likely do not have the 40 foot runs some users would need.

And, yes, a hallway is perfect for return air. However, many people cannot do this due to the configuration of the rooms or the need to keep one or more doors closed.

Glad it worked for you.
 
Perhaps I misread your original post. I thought you were using both a 14" and a 10". I confess to being surprised that a single 14" duct would suffice.


I have two 10" ducts feeding into the blower, and a single 14" coming out and carrying the air down to the other end of the house. It's about 35 or 40 feet (IIRC) from the blower to the living room.


I used two 10" ducts as my intake. By splitting the intake, I increase the intake area, reduce air speed, and thus reduce wind noise. The two 10s are capable of carrying more than the single 14, so the air moves more slowly. That has worked out well. I plan to add filtered intake registers at some point. Again, by splitting the intake, I reduce noise.

I have to agree that my configuration is part of why it works so well. That's why I mentioned that the layout of the house will make a difference in how well this approach works.

I posted it mainly to encourage others in a similar situation to at least give it a try. It's easy to be deterred by "experts" who tell you not to bother.

My next modification will be to run a smaller duct off the main one to feed some warm air into the master bedroom. I'm leaning towards a 6" for that, but I might try 4 just to see if it works. The duct is cheap enough. It's the fittings that kill the checkbook!
 
Actually they are almost identical. The surface area of a pipe opening is calculated with pi*r^2. So you're two 10" pipes are (3.1416 * 25 * 2) = 157 sq in and for one 14" pipe it is (3.1416 * 49) = 154 sq in, almost indentical. Increasing the size of a pipe is a geometric increase in volume, not linear.

I used two 10" ducts as my intake. By splitting the intake, I increase the intake area, reduce air speed, and thus reduce wind noise. The two 10s are capable of carrying more than the single 14, so the air moves more slowly.
 
But the two registers have twice the area of one register, and the register is where most of the noise is generated.
 
I just purchased a 4 inch 100cfm fan, I plan and mounting it near the wood stove and up on the ceiling and running some 4 inch pipe down the hall way to the where the bathroom, my bedroom and the back "add-on". the living room and kitchen I keep at 85 degrees just so the colder rooms stay at roughly 64-68 degrees. After installing the ventilation system I'm hoping I will be able to cut back on wood consumption and burn at a lower setting. The stove I heat with is a Blaze king "king" with a cat, huge wood savings compared to the 30 year old blaze king I had in previous years.
 
My problem is that my house is poorly laid out, as it was built in stages. First a cabin was built, and the rest of the house was just kind of tacked on to the side of it without much thought going into it.

My woodstove is in the original part of the house where the kitchen & family room are, along with two bedrooms, and the living room where we spend most of our time is at the other end of the house. In between is the master bedroom (such as it is).

As a result, the living room was always much colder than the hot end of the house.

There is a long corridor between the original end of the house and the living room. For years, I had a 10" fan mounted in the corner of the doorway leading into the corridor, blowing warm air down towards the living room. I used aluminum flashing to build a sort of duct on the suction side of the fan to get air from near the ceiling, so I'd be blowing the hottest air.

This did make a noticeable difference. There was no question it was helping. It was noisy, though, and not doing enough. The living room still remained uncomfortably cold in severe weather, and we always had to keep the hot end of the house too hot, in order to have the cold end tolerable.

Well, I had the crazy idea of running a duct through the attic between the two ends of the house and using a blower of some kind to move air from the woodstove area to the living room.

Not knowing much about HVAC issues, I suggested this on another forum, and sparked almost a firestorm of, "That's not gonna work! No way! You'll lose all your heat in the duct! Fuggedaboudit!" Some of the naysayers were HVAC business owners, and techs, too. I don't recall anybody thinking it would work. So, I didn't do it. Money is never flowing freely around here, and it was looking like a $500 project, with the ductwork and intake & exhaust registers and all.

Well, I needed to so something, so I finally did it anyway. I bought a 3-speed furnace blower for $65 on Craigslist, and some 14" & 10" insulated flexible duct, 2 10" elbows, a 14" elbow, and a 14" coupler. I also got some OSB and a bit of insulated wrap for the elbows.

I built an air box for the blower using the OSB. Someday I'll probably invest in a box & pan brake and build a proper metal box. I did cheap out on the intake and exhaust - I just cut holes in the ceiling and mounted the elbows in the holes. No grilles, no boxes. It's ugly, but cheap. I figured if it worked, I could add them later, and if it didn't, I would be out less money.

I have the two 10" runs sucking hot air from the ceiling in front of the woodstove, and feeding into the air box. The blower moves the air into the 14" duct, which runs about 50 feet more down to the living room, where it dumps out about 1/3 of the way from the back of the room. The doorway into the corridor is at the front of the room.

Well, folks, we're going into our third winter with the duct installed, and I'm happy to say that the naysayers were completely, totally, drastically wrong. This works great! Far better than I had hoped, in fact. :)

My living room is now usually about 1-2 degrees warmer than near the woodstove.

Yep. Warmer.

I am using about a cord of wood less per year, as I no longer need to keep the "hot" end of the house uncomfortably hot. So, we are more comfortable at both ends of the house, and spending less effort to do it.

The corridor fan with its obnoxious noise is gone. In fact, I took it out the next day after I completed the duct system. It was already very clear that it was working well, and the duct system is far quieter.

The winter before I did this, we went away for a couple of weeks in February during some bitter cold. When we came back, it took about 3 full days for the cold end of the house to get up to a comfortable temperature.

The following year we went away again for a couple of weeks in February during some bitter cold. When we came back, it took about 6 hours for the cold end of the house to get comfortable.

I wish I had ignored the naysayers a lot sooner!


The really interesting thing is, the air coming out in the living room isn't noticeably warm, but it sure is carrying plenty of heat.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share this for the sake of anyone else who is facing this kind of problem, and has been told that duct work won't help.

Your results may vary, of course. I'm sure the layout of your house will make a difference, but don't listen to the naysayers. Find a way to give it a try.

:cool:
Great story, Mark. All the greats have naysayers and proceed anyway. Enjoy your success.
 
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Great story, Mark. All the greats have naysayers and proceed anyway. Enjoy your success.
True. If you fail, your out some time,effort and some money but gain a little wisdom. Not really a bad trade. But if you succeed, who knows what you will gain. :)

What are we talking about again? Life? Relationships? Moving air? Oh well, it’s still pretty accurate. Lol
 
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True. If you fail, your out some time,effort and some money but gain a little wisdom. Not really a bad trade. But if you succeed, who knows what you will gain. :)

What are we talking about again? Life? Relationships? Moving air? Oh well, it’s still pretty accurate. Lol
I'm gonna get deep here: I find heating with wood to be a wonderful metaphor for the other important things in life you mentioned. Hard work, patience, planning, and great care result in incredibly warm outcomes. Rushing things results in cold, smouldering outcomes, and being careless can result in lost limbs, and many varieties of charred piles of ashes.
 
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I'm gonna get deep here: I find heating with wood to be a wonderful metaphor for the other important things in life you mentioned. Hard work, patience, planning, and great care result in incredibly warm outcomes. Rushing things results in cold, smouldering outcomes, and being careless can result in lost limbs, and many varieties of charred piles of ashes.



Well said, both of you! :)
 
I'm gonna get deep here: I find heating with wood to be a wonderful metaphor for the other important things in life you mentioned. Hard work, patience, planning, and great care result in incredibly warm outcomes. Rushing things results in cold, smouldering outcomes, and being careless can result in lost limbs, and many varieties of charred piles of ashes.


That would explain why I suck at this.