MS 261 Hard Nose Bar Question

[StihlKicking]

I have wanted to put a hard nose bar on my 261 for a while now. I inquired about it at the closest saw shop and I use the term saw shop loosely (the closest REAL saw shop is a hours drive from me). They all told me that I would have to change my rim sprocket to a 3/8s pitch and buy a 3/8s 60 drive link chain to use a duramatic bar on my 261. They all strongly advised against this because they said the 3/8s chain would be to aggressive for a 50cc saw. Ok, today I was replacing bars on the saws at work and the boss let me bring home a 16" duramatic bar that he deemed "wore out". I dressed the bar with a flat file, put a 67 drive link .325 chain on it and put it in my saw. The 261 seems to like this set up and I'm happy with it. Is there something that I should be concerned about that I'm over looking or does this set up sound kosher to you guys? I am conflicted because of the advice I received from the local dealer.


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[woodhog73]

Just curious why you want to run a hard nose ?

They were ok on older saws because those old saws didn't produce as much rpm and that resulted in much slower chain speeds. As saws developed more rpm the roller tips seemed to become more necessary.

However on your modern and high revving 261 the resulting faster chain speed really is going to wear out the hard nose groove much quicker than it is supposed to. As well as wear your chains quicker. As well as zap power from your saw.

Going from a .325 on a 50cc pro saw to a 3/8 hard nose set up is a Huge drop in cutting performance. Atleast I imagine it would be. I run a ported and muffler modded 50cc Jonsered that's a real strong runner with .325 on it. I've run 3/8 on lesser output 50cc saws before and hated it.

Both my older Stihls which are an 031 and 056 came outfitted with hard nose bars. These are old, low reving saws. I ditched the hard nose bars in favor of roller tips

 

[StihlKicking]

Just curious why you want to run a hard nose ?

They were ok on older saws because those old saws didn't produce as much rpm and that resulted in much slower chain speeds. As saws developed more rpm the roller tips seemed to become more necessary.

However on your modern and high revving 261 the resulting faster chain speed really is going to wear out the hard nose groove much quicker than it is supposed to. As well as wear your chains quicker. As well as zap power from your saw.

Going from a .325 on a 50cc pro saw to a 3/8 hard nose set up is a Huge drop in cutting performance. Atleast I imagine it would be. I run a ported and muffler modded 50cc Jonsered that's a real strong runner with .325 on it. I've run 3/8 on lesser output 50cc saws before and hated it.

Both my older Stihls which are an 031 and 056 came outfitted with hard nose bars. These are old, low reving saws. I ditched the hard nose bars in favor of roller tips

Ive always felt like there is less to go wrong on a hard nose bar. Mainly though I just want a solid one piece bar rather than the laminated rollamatic e that comes with the 261. I have had more trouble out of the rollamatic e's than I ever have out of the duromatics or the ES bars.


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[woodhog73]

You can get a solid non laminated pro bar with a replaceable roller tip. Solid bars are heavier though but tougher. Just keep the tip greased they last a real long time.

I like to run tsumura and Windsor speed tip bars. I do have a few cheap laminated Oregon bars hanging in my garage. I don't have any Stihl bars on any of my saws, including my Stihls.

 

[Dairyman]

What gauge is the hard nose bar? A 261 will handle 16" of 3/8 . It won't be a speed demon but it'll pull it.

 

[StihlKicking]

What gauge is the hard nose bar? A 261 will handle 16" of 3/8 . It won't be a speed demon but it'll pull it.

.063


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[woodhog73]

.063


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.063 is heavier but stronger chain. Big saw territory.

Run what you feel is best for you. But I've got to say and call me an ass if you want but a bone stock 261 ( or ported ) with a hard nose bar in 3/8 and guage .063 is a slow cutting turd when compared to .325 on a roller tip.

I tried 3/8 in .050 and 16 inch on my 260. Hated it compared to .325 on that saw. I have since sold that saw.

I call it like it is. Sorry not trying to be a jerk but it's a very mixed match set up on a 50cc saw.

If your main issue is you don't like the cheap quality stihl bar that came with that saw there's other options out there in .325 and sprocket tip that will allow the saw to retain it's valued and sought after high performance

 

[StihlKicking]

.063 is heavier but stronger chain. Big saw territory.

Run what you feel is best for you. But I've got to say and call me an ass if you want but a bone stock 261 ( or ported ) with a hard nose bar in 3/8 and guage .063 is a slow cutting turd when compared to .325 on a roller tip.

I tried 3/8 in .050 and 16 inch on my 260. Hated it compared to .325 on that saw. I have since sold that saw.

I call it like it is. Sorry not trying to be a jerk but it's a very mixed match set up on a 50cc saw.

If your main issue is you don't like the cheap quality stihl bar that came with that saw there's other options out there in .325 and sprocket tip that will allow the saw to retain it's valued and sought after high performance

No offense taken, when I ask a question I like getting a straight answer. I'm gonna forget about putting the 3/8s chain on it but keep the 16" hard nose running a .063, .325 chain for now. It was after all a free bar. The saw really cuts pretty well with this set up at least as good as it did with a 20" roller tip and a .063, .325 loop on it.

When I bought the saw new it came with .063 gauge bar and chain on it and that's all I've ever used. Would going to .050 gauge make that much difference? Thanks


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[Dairyman]

.063


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Bummer. Stihl's ps/ps3 would be great for that saw.

 

[Dairyman]

.063 is heavier but stronger chain. Big saw territory.

Run what you feel is best for you. But I've got to say and call me an ass if you want but a bone stock 261 ( or ported ) with a hard nose bar in 3/8 and guage .063 is a slow cutting turd when compared to .325 on a roller tip.

I tried 3/8 in .050 and 16 inch on my 260. Hated it compared to .325 on that saw. I have since sold that saw.

I call it like it is. Sorry not trying to be a jerk but it's a very mixed match set up on a 50cc saw.

If your main issue is you don't like the cheap quality stihl bar that came with that saw there's other options out there in .325 and sprocket tip that will allow the saw to retain it's valued and sought after high performance

.063 isn't any stronger than .050 and the weight isn't enough to matter on a 60 dl chain cutting firewood. Just sayin...

I run .325 & 3/8 on mine but it isn't stock either.[emoji6]

 

[woodhog73]

In .325 chain I can't imagine it's going to make much difference if any going from .063 to .050. I think a lot of smaller Stihls do come with .063 guage in .325 so if that's what you got now I can't see switching to .050. Can't imagine it's worth the money. However if your going with other brand bars you will probably have more selection in .050 not sure though I've never shopped for .063 bars.

I was thinking more of the negative effects of running 3/8 than I was the .063 guage. It seems that the .063 guage is most often found in 3/8 and on longer bars hence the reason in my mind it's stronger ( it is bigger and wider after all ) but Dairyman might be correct in that it's no stronger. I've never tested the strength wouldn't know how to test the strength ?

You could always try 3/8 on your 261 and if you don't like it swap it back. Just seems like extra expense though.

In my experience I just didn't care for 3/8 , which is no doubt heavier, on my small saws .

On your hard nose bar I would keep an eye on the chain wear. I'm guessing the chain might wear a little quicker. More heat build up around the tip without a roller ?

 

[Jon1270]

They all told me that I would have to change my rim sprocket to a 3/8s pitch and buy a 3/8s 60 drive link chain to use a duramatic bar on my 261.

To address your original question, the answer is that all of those dealers were simply wrong. Not just wrong, but WrongWrongWrong. With a hardnose bar, the only thing you have to match up is the gauge. There's no nose sprocket, so pitch doesn't matter.