My Brass Flame Wood Stove

[Blazzinghot]

A couple of weeks back I purchased a Brass Flame wood stove which was tested in 1986. I purchased the stove for $75.00 I had to rebuild this stove so was able to study it to see how it operated. First, I would like to mention this stove is built like a tank an expression I am borrow from someone on this forum. It has three air intakes. The main two air intakes are controlled by the pull handle on the bottom of the stove. It adjusts air coming in above the glass and the three round air inlets on the back wall of the stove which are curiously placed in the middle rather than on the bottom as you see in the other older stoves. These two adjustments work independent of each other. It is a simple but ingenious way to control air flow. The third air intake is from some small holes on the bottom back side of the stove which go into some two-inch by ¾ tubes up through double steel walls to the secondary burners.
The secondary burners are not like what you see in most stoves today. Instead of having three or four tubes going across the top this stove has the tubes in a square shape welded to the stove walls allowing space for heat reflectors which set on top of the secondary burners which are removable. They were made of ¼ steel plates.
I made a few improvements to this stove. I welded in some angle iron above the secondary burners so I could place bricks as a heat sink instead of the ¼ steel plating. The back wall of the stove was warped and split so I cut it out and replaced it with new steel and added some short pieces of stainless-steel tubing onto the three holes which is the main air intake.
After I was all finished, I was excited to move the stove outside and hook up eight feet of pipe to test it. The tree stainless steel air intakes acted like torches and were shooting flames toward the glass window. In my first test I found that I could not shut the stove down totally as the secondary air tubes were not enough to keep the fire going so was creating allot of smoke. I had to allow some air flow through the air intake on the back wall. I stove heats up nicely and was smoke free after adjusting the air intakes.
The glass window was burned but with some hard labor and a polishing kit I was able to save the glass and $100.00 for a new window. It still has some small scratches but the window is clear enough to show of the fire. I put in new gaskets and bricks and hope to place this on Facebook Marketplace this week.

 

[Hoytman]

Oh yeah! Job well done. Very nice looking little stove. First time seeing one of those. It appears to be well made with heavy top plate, door frame and heavy hinge pins. Certainly built like a tank...a description I use often as do a few others. I do question that date if 1986. Sure it’s not 1996?? Just wondering. Not sure when the first tube stove came out, but I do have a stove built in 1998 with them.

After thinking about it I do think there were some tube stoves starting back then, but I can’t be sure without looking. Sure is an interesting stove though. Love the legs on it.

 

[Blazzinghot]

Thanks for your comments. I just added another picture and let you stove guys read it and see if I am reading it correctly. The lady that owned the stove had it setting next a building she was leashing to some guys who were building sheds and one man came over thinking he was going to lift it and found he could not budge it. He said "Oh do you want me to get my forklift?" It may be small but is very well built. I have sent pictures of this stove to a few friends and told them she has nice legs. Ha

 

[clancey]

It's a very pretty stove and glad you have it and fixing it up...The fire looks good in it as well..clancey

 

[begreen]

Nicely done, I love it when new life is breathed into an old soul. The plate above the secondaries is not a heat sink. It is a baffle designed to divert the wood gases to the front of the stove, thus past the secondary tubes where it is ignited and burned off before reversing back to the flue outlet above the baffle. The bricks can serve the same function as long as there is enough room above them to not restrict the flow to the flue outlet.

 

[Blazzinghot]

Thanks again for the comments. I enjoyed restoring this stove. It is almost like new. Yes, I measured to make sure I had enough air space between the bricks and the top of the stove. I got the idea of using the fire bricks from watching the video on how the Lopi wood stove works video. What I meant by heat sink is that the brick will hold the heat much better and hotter and help produce a better secondary burn. The radiant mass hold the heat inside the firebox so it elevates the burn temperature. Now I borrowed all this from the Lopi video. It makes sense to me.

 

[Hoytman]

I figured that’s where you got the idea and good on you as it’s a great design. One of the very things that We liked about Lopi stoves until they changed them all last year. They now use an insulating blanket, which I’m sure works just as well, but just seems cheaper. However, it did allow for some better perks/options for their design. Taller door and glass, easier loading since tubes moved up some, they also hid the air wash.

I actually found a used Liberty to try before dropping a lot of money. If I like it, I may buy a née Endeavor for the N/S-E/W loading. Might even go a unit smaller than that even.

Not sure which stove company had the first tubes, or what year. Some of those early Lopi’s were pushing the envelope by about 84-86 I think. Maybe someone else here has that info.

How big is the firebox in that stove and what are the out measurements?

 

[begreen]

Not sure which stove company had the first tubes, or what year. Some of those early Lopi’s were pushing the envelope by about 84-86 I think. Maybe someone else here has that info.

I think I read that Avalon was the first and this was one of the reasons Travis was interested in the purchase of the company.

 

[Hoytman]

That would explain why I was thinking it was Lopi. Guess that’s not totally right.

 

[Blazzinghot]

Hoytman, I did get the idea of putting bricks on the top from the video I watched on the Lopi stove. It was very interesting you may have seen it. The have a stove they call a cut a way which show how the stove works. I have also downloaded different diagrams from other ideas on secondary burners which I find interesting.
I measured the stove just now so we can both know the inside measurements are 16 inches for depth from glass to back brick and 18 inches wide from brick to brick on the sides and 13 inches deep from the inside bottom to the bottom of the top bricks.
The outside dimensions are about 28 inches tall and 24 inches wide side to side and 20 inches deep.

After you mentioned that you were not sure about secondary burners being on stoves in 1986. This made me wonder about the history of secondary burners. I tried to do a search on the internet but did not find much information. It would be a great topic to explore but maybe that has already be done on this forum.

Interesting info on the Avalon. It could be that several stove inventors from different parts of the world started exploring the idea of secondary burners. I must admit I am a stove novice but was surprised to find this Brass Flame had secondary burners for as old as it was. It was fun taking the lid off and looking under the hood.

 

[begreen]

There were several products exploring secondary combustion prior to 1986. Some were catalytic stoves and others had a form of secondary combustion, some basic and some sophisticated. A simple form was seen in stoves that had an extra air control positioned right at where the flue gases turned around the baffle front. The Jotul F602 and F118 also introduced air at this point to improve secondary combustion. One of the best-known clean burners was the Kent Tile fire which started selling in the US in 1980 from New Zealand.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/kent-tile-fire

 

[clancey]

Is this a good link to use for "the clean burner" you tried to put on here.. Is it the same wood stove? clancey

Kent Wood Heaters

Our Kent wood heaters are more efficient than ever and is one of the cleanest burning heaters on the market. With our extensive range of heaters to suit any space, style and budget, you'll find the perfect heater for your home.

kentwoodheaters.com.au

The name of yours was "The Kent tile fire " in the 1980 from New Zealand and is this the same company for the old stove...?

 

[begreen]

Yes, Kent is still in business, but I don't know if they are imported to the US anymore.

 

[Hoytman]

I imagine these qualify, although no air tubes. Lopi does call it secondary air, but I was just wondering which actually had tubes, or air “holes” like the OP’s stove.

https://www.travisindustries.com/Docs/93508000.pdf ....1982 model 520 and 380.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I think the early Avalon was the first and with only one tube to start with. Designed by John Desautels, over a weekend of inspiration!

The short story of a stove genius!

I'll probably move this to the wiki history section, but I wanted to tell a short story of long ago! Back in 1986 I had the pleasure of meeting a true stove genius...maybe one of the very few that ever existed. Sure, there have been lots of stove designers, stove engineers and stove experts -...

www.hearth.com

 

[bholler]

Cawley lemay was another one that was using secondary combustion very early as well. They had a cast iron grid at the front of the baffle and introduced fresh air directly into that

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Yes, Kent is still in business, but I don't know if they are imported to the US anymore.

Not anymore.

 

[Hoytman]

Yes, I think the early Avalon was the first and with only one tube to start with. Designed by John Desautels, over a weekend of inspiration!

The short story of a stove genius!

I'll probably move this to the wiki history section, but I wanted to tell a short story of long ago! Back in 1986 I had the pleasure of meeting a true stove genius...maybe one of the very few that ever existed. Sure, there have been lots of stove designers, stove engineers and stove experts -...

www.hearth.com

Great read. Thanks for that.

However, if you go back and read that entire article I see a discrepancy. He mention creating a computer program on his Mac to help him design the stove and by that time the article says it was the late 80’s, so something doesn’t jive. Not trying to be argumentative, just something I noticed. Read it again for yourself. Late 80’s can’t coincide with early 80’s.

Maybe someone got crossed up telling the story.

Still an interesting read.

 

[Hoytman]

Those Lemays were well built. Would like to see one in person.

 

[bholler]

Those Lemays were well built. Would like to see one in person.

They have the deepest relief casting I have seen on any stove. And more detail than anything else at the time.

 

[begreen]

Great read. Thanks for that.

However, if you go back and read that entire article I see a discrepancy. He mention creating a computer program on his Mac to help him design the stove and by that time the article says it was the late 80’s, so something doesn’t jive. Not trying to be argumentative, just something I noticed. Read it again for yourself. Late 80’s can’t coincide with early 80’s.

Maybe someone got crossed up telling the story.

Still an interesting read.

The Mac 128k came out in Jan. 1984.

 

[Hoytman]

The Mac 128k came out in Jan. 1984.

Fully aware of that because it was not before my time. Commodore 64 came out in 1982 and I also remember that.

“He developed a program on his computer (a mac, in this case) which simulated all the variables of combustion. This may seem like nothing special to those who work with such systems today, but this was the late 1980's and computing power was nowhere near what it is today.”

Late 80’s is 87-89, not 84. So a tube stove, couldn’t have been in 80 or 84...that is as written by the quote above. Speaking about the link to the article.

Not trying to doubt what you told me, so please don’t take offense to that. No doubt you showed me the Avalon and when it was made. Perhaps the person telling the story didn’t get it quite right. Not a big deal either way. Just something I noticed that didn’t jive with what you had told me. I didn’t doubt you, still don’t, but I question that particular posting, that’s all.

Anyway, moving forward...

 

[begreen]

@webbie founded Hearth.com. It's possible he made an error in the recounting.

 

[Blazzinghot]

There were several products exploring secondary combustion prior to 1986. Some were catalytic stoves and others had a form of secondary combustion, some basic and some sophisticated. A simple form was seen in stoves that had an extra air control positioned right at where the flue gases turned around the baffle front. The Jotul F602 and F118 also introduced air at this point to improve secondary combustion. One of the best-known clean burners was the Kent Tile fire which started selling in the US in 1980 from New Zealand.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/kent-tile-fire

The

 

[Blazzinghot]

It seems as if this thread has gone to the history of what stoves had secondary burn systems. I looked the pictures on the internet of some of the stoves mentioned. Sometimes you can download the manual and see how they are designed. I saw the diagram for the Jotul F602 and it has changed allot from the earlier models. I just found a picture of the basics on how the Kent Tile Fire works with explanation . https://pasurvivalprods.tripod.com/kent.html I like to see how others come up with their ideas and what they did to make the stove more efficient.

Today I sold the Brass Flame to a man you has a 1100 sq. ft. home. I had to explain to him how a secondary burn works so that he could get the most out of his new wood stove. I have to be honest and tell you about 6 years ago when I purchased this home it had a brand new Napoleon wood stove. I just could not get the house warm with it. Our home is 1300 sq. ft. The reason I did not get my home warm was because I did not know how to use it. I really did not learn about secondary burn until I posted my first stove on this forum. To bad I sold the Napoleon stove.