My Brass Flame Wood Stove

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Blazzinghot

Member
Dec 5, 2019
125
New Plymouth, Idaho
Since this discussion included some of the stoves that first developed secondary burners I would like to share what I found this morning when looking at a used Osburn stove online. I try to do as much research as possible before I purchase a stove. I found the Osburn site http://www.osburn-australia.com/en/about/history Here is part of their history.

"Mr. Mills became sole owner of the company in 1985. In its early days, the company produced only wood stoves, and in 1980 it became the first-ever North American manufacturer to make a wood stove in compliance with Oregon State's strict air emission standards."

They must have had some type of secondary burn system but 1980 There stoves today are on the pricy side but they look well built.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
88,835
South Puget Sound, WA
Not sure. I think Craig posted many years ago that the Avalon was the first stove that was a secondary tube burner, but there were other clean(er) burners in the early '80s.
 

Blazzinghot

Member
Dec 5, 2019
125
New Plymouth, Idaho
It seems you mentioned this before It may very well be that Craig is correct but though we could toss this history into the mix. Now I am somewhat interested in how the older Avalon's and Osburn stoves were made.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,224
Eastern Long Island NY
Regarding secondary burners, I have seen in my DutchWest FA264CCL, which had controlled secondary air on the top left side feeding tubes ending (and thus providing pre-heated air) under the cylindrical combustor in the top middle of the stove, that if one plays well with the primary air (in the door on the left, over fire) (and of course keep the air in the ash door closed as it's for coal burning), that one can have secondary flames coming out of these tube as well. Get it hot, decrease primary air, and do not increase secondary too much, and it works.

And my stove was "tested" according to the label in '83.

While the air may have been meant to supply oxygen to the combustor (a thing I believe most stoves now don't do anymore b/c primary burning leaves sufficient O2 for the combustor), in the right mode one could get secondaries there.

I played with it, but refrained from running that way for long as I was afraid that the (ceramic) combustor would be damaged from having flames too close or touching it. I always thought I could use this as a relatively clean back-up mode if my combustor failed before I had another one...
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
88,835
South Puget Sound, WA
It seems you mentioned this before It may very well be that Craig is correct but though we could toss this history into the mix. Now I am somewhat interested in how the older Avalon's and Osburn stoves were made.
I think the first Avalon had a single secondary tube, but don't hold me to it.
 
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Blazzinghot

Member
Dec 5, 2019
125
New Plymouth, Idaho
stoveliker, I was not familiar with the DutchWest FA264CCL so just watched a couple of videos on it. The one shown in the video was a 1985 model. Very nice looking stove and I like the idea of feeding the wood from the side. I am sure they have improved them since the 1980's. The one Blaze King I rebuilt some time back has secondary air under the combuster. It sounds like your are still using the DutchWest or have you upgraded?

begreen, Very hard to find a history on the Avalon stoves could not even find an older manual as they sometimes have a diagram of how the stove works. I guess we might not ever no how some of these older stoves were made.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,224
Eastern Long Island NY
I upgraded to a (modern) Blaze King Chinook 30.2. A very nice experience in burn time (on my first try of a long burn, I got 24-is hours. Of course it was between 30-35 outside, but even in dead winter (but on Long Island, not Idaho...), I still get 12 hr burns easily. In fact, 14 hr was more common, which was a nuisance because one has to push it keep a decent refill schedule.

Chimney was utterly clean (non-insulated, double wall in masonry outside), only some dry crud at the bottom elbow - which was singe wall).
 
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Blazzinghot

Member
Dec 5, 2019
125
New Plymouth, Idaho
Thanks for you reply and info on your new Blaze King Chinook that is a very nice looking stove. With a 12 to 14 hour burn time you will sleep well at night. Having a clean chimney is always nice. Those days of getting up a couple of times to stoke the fire are long gone for most. I just got a very nice used Country Striker for my shop and fixed it up and am getting excited about putting a fire in it this fall.
 
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Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
356
Ohio
I guess other than the Avalon/Lopi we are still searching for which stove company/model had the first tubes in it. Good thread!

Let’s not forget about the wood stoves that had secondary air without tubes. We know Avalon/Lopi had this feature and likely others did as well. None come to mind at the moment because I wasn’t really dwelling on the subject when I got an alert on this thread.

For the sake of other newbies reading this thread into the future who may be interested in the history of stove design, especially as it pertains to secondary air function and where it came from.

Stove designers were well aware of secondary air function 100 years plus prior to modern wood box stoves and incorporated it into many of the much older stove designs of the 1800’s to early 1900’s. More research in this can yield some interesting reading. Those guys were smart designers. It is highly likely more modern stove designers built upon this prior knowledge.

For the sake of this discussion though, I believe it was me who asked earlier in the thread (now some time ago) which stove company had the first secondary air “tube(s)”.

So far, we’ve come up with Avalon as maybe the first with a single secondary air tube. Lopi is real close in there as well...and as Begreen has mentioned likely came from Lopi acquiring Avalon. Perhaps there are/were others. I’ll have to look into the Dutchwest. I’m not familiar with that one.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
88,835
South Puget Sound, WA
The early Federal and Kent stoves had secondary combustion systems. Worth looking at their histories.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,224
Eastern Long Island NY
To be clear, the "federal" and the "Dutchwest" are (at least for the iteration I had) the same : it was the DutchWest Federal Airtight (FA) [264ccl].
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
356
Ohio
How mainstream were these in the U.S.? Anyone have any idea. I’ve never heard of them. During that time frame in my local, Buck was the hands down most popular stove.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,947
central pa
How mainstream were these in the U.S.? Anyone have any idea. I’ve never heard of them. During that time frame in my local, Buck was the hands down most popular stove.
We still see a fair number of Kent's. I would say Alaska's and fishers were probably the most popular here. Some bucks but not nearly as common as many others.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
Our 1001 had 4 secondary air tubes (mentioned earlier) and a combustor. (First hybrid) The design drew air from the room and placed it below the combustor, contributing to thermal shock. 70 degree room air was not a great design. Air needs to be heated prior to introducing it to the fire when a combustor is also used. That was 1983.
 

Cgomes

New Member
Sep 3, 2021
1
12076
Hello. We just purchased a cabin in the woods with a brass flame wood stove. Having a hard time finding instructions on how to work this thing as we are used to one with electrical blower. I see you did a nice refinishing job and are knowledgeable about how to get it going. Could you share that...would trally appreciate it...here is a pic of ours before and after my polishing attempts...not bad i think

IMG_48371(1).jpg IMG_4879.jpg image.jpg 20210615_165853.jpg
 

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,024
Massachusetts
if i am getting this right i have a h2 made in 1986 that had a secondary air and tube. and if you are going to talk non tube my defiant from 1978 has a heated air secondary chamber to the right of the main fire box. i was not aware that they made secondarys back in the late 1800's. does anybody know of a brand i can look up to read?
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
356
Ohio
Just google antique cylinder stoves, of which there are many to study. Many of them had secondary air intakes that were adjustable, some were stationary. Some had secondary gas rings that ignited volatile gases just above the fire pot.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
88,835
South Puget Sound, WA
Hello. We just purchased a cabin in the woods with a brass flame wood stove. Having a hard time finding instructions on how to work this thing as we are used to one with electrical blower. I see you did a nice refinishing job and are knowledgeable about how to get it going. Could you share that...would trally appreciate it...here is a pic of ours before and after my polishing attempts...not bad i think

View attachment 281605
Looks almost new. Is there a UL label on the back that provides the model and clearances? It looks quite close to the rear wall.
 

Blazzinghot

Member
Dec 5, 2019
125
New Plymouth, Idaho
Hi Cgomes, I was surprised to see another BrassFlame wood stove. I am not sure what your stove looked like from the start but it polished up nice and looks super. Like the flooring in your cabin.

Here is what I remember about how this stove works. First, the secondary air are those small holes around the top inside the stove have no adjustment. There is a small square opening on the back of the stove that lets in are for this purpose. The long rod that pulls out in the front adjusts the primary air for both the holes on the middle back wall of the stove and for air wash system above the window.

Here is the tricky part which I will try to explain the best I can. When you first light up your kindling have that middle bar pulled all the way out towards you as this opens up all the air intakes. Then keep the door slightly cracked open and add more wood to get the stove nice and hot you want to get good draft going. Then add firewood as needed and close the door.

Then as the stove gets a good bed coals (get the stove to about 350) start slowly pushing in this rod. It will start turning down the amount of air coming in from the back of the stove first. This will not affect the air coming in over the window on the stove yet. As you keep pushing in the rod it will turn off the air coming in from the back of the stove completely. Then you can keep pushing in the rod and it will catch the second plate that will start turning off the air coming in over the window.

That rod on the front of the stove is long for a reason because it adjusts two air controls. The second air control for the window does not move until a small washer on the rod hits it and then starts to slide it shut.

My suggestion would be never to close the air over the door so you will never push that rod in all the way. Once you understand the principles you can play with the two air controls. If you turn down the air over the widow, I am not sure you will keep the fire hot enough to keep the secondary burners working.